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Author Topic: 1001 dreams / Lucid Dreaming  (Read 1375 times)
nifelan
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« on: 22.02.2009, 02:43:17 »

Information about Lucid Dreaming and the content of this panel can be found a few posts below
Hi

Last year I've done a panel about lucid dreaming that was well received (for the most part). I'd like to do that again - but only if I wouldn't take a slot away from somebody that would do something new. It would also fit the theme for the convention better than last time Wink

I don't know how good of an idea it would be to offer the same panel twice in a row or if there is any interest in letting me talk about my experiences and how to achieve lucid dreams (and most of all: what to do when having one...). I'm pretty sure that many people didn't go to my panel last time because of other panels that were offered at the same time or simply because they forgot. Even tough, last year we had to take quite a lot of chairs from unused rooms because the demand for this panel was so big Smiley

Oh, and I'll most likely do it completely on my own this time. No offense to the person I held the panel with the last time but even my little bit of English is better and keeps the people awake and interested (it might be a lucid dreaming panel but that doesn't mean that it should encourage sleeping during the SIG).

Well, so much from my part Smiley
regards,
nifelan
« Last Edit: 31.08.2009, 17:11:33 by nifelan » Logged

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Riffuchs
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« Reply #1 on: 22.02.2009, 08:29:08 »

Hi there,

I'm seein' no problem in running this SIG once more. And I'd like to encourage you. If you have some doubts about the interest in a sequel, I would suggest to not use the same material but to alternate the content to offer new ideas and also go get all those Furs that were attending your SIG intested once more. But as far as I can see it, you already planing to do it that way  Wink

So, short answer: If you want to, I see there no problem. But it's still a long time until this years Eurofurence and so I'd like to ask you to drop me a short note about the SIG you plan to run at events@eurofurence.org. Just for the files and for me to keep track Smiley
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nifelan
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« Reply #2 on: 06.07.2009, 17:39:19 »

Looks like I'll do it again this year. If there are any topics you'd like me to include, feel free to post. I can use any input for a more diverse panel (since it won't be just lucid dreaming this year but rather how you can influence your dreams).
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gwyndolium
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« Reply #3 on: 07.07.2009, 00:42:52 »

What always kept me close to lucid dreaming as an interesting subject was the fact I could change my nightmares into normal dreams. Which is of course pretty cool and easy step into lucid.
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Whitefang
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« Reply #4 on: 07.07.2009, 13:45:46 »

I'm looking forward to this SIG. It may not answer the questions I have about dreams and their meanings but it certainly sounds very interesting.
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« Reply #5 on: 07.07.2009, 14:12:34 »

Will it be held during a time when normal furs on a usual con are fast asleep? ;)

*purrr*
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nifelan
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« Reply #6 on: 07.07.2009, 14:31:34 »

Will it be held during a time when normal furs on a usual con are fast asleep? Wink

*purrr*
While this might be a SIG that encourages sleeping, you should attend it while being awake Wink
I've asked for a slot after 2 o'clock pm, we'll see what I'll get.
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« Reply #7 on: 07.07.2009, 14:43:19 »

Will it be held during a time when normal furs on a usual con are fast asleep? Wink

*purrr*
While this might be a SIG that encourages sleeping, you should attend it while being awake Wink
I've asked for a slot after 2 o'clock pm, we'll see what I'll get.

14:00? At such an early time you'll hardly see this dragon awake.
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nifelan
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« Reply #8 on: 31.08.2009, 17:08:11 »

Just like I promised, here is an overview about the topics that were discussed so that you won't forget everything Smiley

What are dreams / when do we dream?
Dreams are most likely about processing experiences.
During the day you've got all sorts of sensory input - if you think you saw something, this assumption will automatically be corrected if contradictory input is given. In the night this contradictory input is missing, therefore you see what you think you saw.
Sleep is divided into several sleep phases, ranging from light to very deep sleep. During light sleep/sleep onset one might experience hypnagogic imagery (strange/random sounds, images etc.). While you are asleep, you are in sleep paralysis and only your eyes move.
The REM (rapid eye movement) phase is the phase where the most dreams happen and is a relatively light sleep phase. REM starts at around 70-90 minutes after falling asleep and the first REM phase lasts for roughly 5-10 minutes and is most likely followed by a short awakening. The longer you've been asleep, the longer these REM periods will last.

How to influence dreams – while being awake & how our mind works
Our mind has schemas or models for nearly everything. For objects ("rectangular surface supported by four small pillars" - our mind has a model for that and it is called "a table"), language, memory, reasoning, stories etc.
For example: you can't tell if someone is lying or not if you don't have the mental models for truth or lies.

To influence your dreams while you are awake, simply keep yourself busy with something. If you focus on something during the day, this will somehow manifest itself in your dreams. Everyone that has played tetris for a few hours straight will most likely continue to play tetris in their dreams - or be confronted with some related problem, like arranging geometrical shapes (eg. tables) in a limited space (eg. storage room) with maximum efficiency.
You can exploit this by working on a story for your dreams and keeping yourself occupied with this story, daydream about it. Sooner or later some elements will appear in your dreams.
My personal experience here is, that it took a few weeks for some small perhaps not even that relevant details to be part of my dreams and after a few months I suddenly found myself in the whole story I wrote. Now I have access to positive elements from these stories in a lot of my dreams.

lucid dreams
Lucid dreams are all about knowing that you are currently dreaming (or not dreaming).
The first step you should take is to improve your dream recall so that you are able to recall at least one dream per night.
This is necessary to remember your lucid dreams (even though my personal experience tells me that those dreams are usually not forgotten that easy) and more importantly to recognise patterns that often occur in your dreams. You might find yourself at school often in your dreams or perhaps your car won't work - you might even have a reoccurring nightmare.
To improve your dream recall, try keeping a dream journal. The very moment you wake up, don't immediately start thinking about your daily routine or what you'll have to do today. Instead, think about the last images, sounds or emotions that are most likely still floating around your head - even if they might seem like faint echoes at that time. Spend a few minutes trying to reconstruct images, scenes and perhaps even the one or other complete dream from this.
Now take notes or you'll forget everything in a few hours. You don't need to write a full story, a few keywords are all you need.
Ideally you should keep a notepad or voice recorder close to your bed.

You might now have found some things that happen in your dreams that usually don't happen in your waking life. Apples falling upwards, writing already passed exams or winning the lottery are usually pretty good dream signs. Of course there are way more things and these are just a few examples of what could happen in a dream.
Dream signs are things that happen and only seem logical during a dream. One way to recognise that you are dreaming is to watch out for such dream signs. Thats easier said than done Wink
If you aren't aware of your surrounding while you are awake, why should you be aware of it when you are asleep - since you think that you are awake when you are in fact sleeping. One great method to recognise that you are dreaming is to do reality checks - check, whether or not you are dreaming or not. These are called reality checks for a reason - don't just assume that you are awake.
Good methods for reality checks are:
  • reading something several times or examining writing and letters - writing in dreams is often rather unstable and you might even find the letters change right before your eyes!
  • Take a good look at your fingers and count them (don't just stop after counting 5 fingers but keep in mind that you don't need to count up to 100 since having more than five fingers is already a good hint). Do this repeatedly, perhaps even think something like "I have four fingers" before starting to count them.
  • Digital clocks/watches - if the watch spells "05:lol" or "23:94" or doesn't display anything that makes sense at all, you are most likely dreaming (or the batteries of your watch died - but don't just assume that, I've had a few dreams where my watch displayed strange stuff and I thought that the batteries must be bad when I was actually dreaming). Look at the current time several times. If it changes, you are most likely dreaming. Sadly it often happens to me that I just happen to look at my watch between the 59th and 1st second - which requires even more checks afterwards Wink
So keep an eye out for anything that might be odd. Anything could be a sign that you are dreaming. If your laptop suddenly catches fire - don't just panic but also do a reality check. If Cheetah is throwing around ice cream, he has either finally snapped under all that pressure or you might just happen to be in a dream.
Realising that you are dreaming while you are in a dream is called a dream induced lucid dream (DILD).

There are other methods, like simply wanting to have a lucid dream and recognise that you are dreaming when you are going to bed and keeping your focus on that intention - or falling asleep consciously (which would then be a WILD - a wake induced lucid dream).
How can you fall asleep consciously? Keep your mind busy with something. Count numbers, imagine yourself walking up/down stairs... but also keep in mind why you are doing this. It doesn't help if you find yourself at your workplace and your boss asks you to stop counting and you comply. You could try to add "I'm dreaming" after each number you've counted to help you remember why you are counting in the first place.
This method works best if you stand up two hours earlier than you need to and then go back to bed - or if you take an afternoon nap. That's also an effective method to improve your dream recall.
While you are lying in your bed, slowly drifting to sleep, you might experience hypnagogic imagery. Your first intention might be to influence or to join in but it is more effective to just let the dream slowly take shape. Observe it and as soon as it has gained a certain level of clarity or stability slowly ease yourself into the dream. Don't force it!

You could also try to rely on external clues like lights, sounds or vibration which are either triggered by time (remember that REM starts after ~90 minutes) or by monitoring eye or body movement (you might turn around or things like that during the light sleep phase).
These external clues could manifest themself in various ways. There could be a disembodied voice, somebody could start talking to you or you might just subconsciously absorb this information. So again, be aware of strange things that might happen.
Of course, such external clues might also just wake you up.

Inside the dream
Staying there and lucid: spinning/movement, sensations, looking at the floor/hands, shouting/talking, interacting with the dream, touch!
Waking up: do nothing/ignore the dream, open eyes/move body, “kill” yourself, shout (predominant feature), focus on body/something, go to sleep (beware: false awakenings)
change the dream (different dream, escape nightmares, ...): spinning, indirect/visualisation, imagine how something would feel, door/gateway, emotion/feelings (good against Nightmares)
external influence
The power of expectations! Expect something and it will happen.

What to do / inspiration
Flying: Wings, floatation, Gravity, Superman, Swimming, gadgets/tools, “light as a feather”
Confrontations: Fears, Nightmares, Subconscious, lost loved ones, interesting or historic people
Wish fulfilment: Material goods, world domination, sex, body (+RL), desires, healing, improving waking life (feeling good)
Shapeshifting: visualisation, external tools/gadgets, have somebody help/curse you, spinning, letting go, feeling
Improve waking life: training (sports), muscle memory, looking for solutions, problem solving (eg. create a lucid dream workshop), give a talk, perform in front of people – get feedback
Adventures: do whatever you want, explore the dream, be whoever you want (eg. Sherlock Holmes, Rambo, …), visit any place, … pick fights
Experiments: multiple bodies, writing, 360° vision, shadows, colour, dream-TV ? Workshop, mind-reading, telekinesis (“use the force”), controlling elements (“magic missile”), making plants grow, walk through mirrors/walls, changing the flow of time, change own body (strenght, appearance, gender), interact/talk to dream characters, “tell me when I'm dreaming”, create music, run/fly around like crazy, parcour
Save game/quicksave, shield, immortality, omnipotence
much more! use your imagination!


Have fun and don't hesitate to talk to me about such things, I love sharing experiences Smiley
P.S.: Sorry if my talk at EF seemed a little bit chaotic, I had very little sleep and a nasty headache Sad
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nifelan
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« Reply #9 on: 01.09.2009, 12:56:46 »

I've said that I don't have that many lucid dreams at the moment, which is most likely due to all the stress I've had (and I'll have). This is not entirely true.
Lucid dreaming requires at least a tiny bit of effort. If you don't question it when strange stuff happens, you won't recognise the most obvious dream signs.

Since I've been preparing for this SIG, I've grown more aware of my surroundings and this night I've had a lucid dream (a DILD, if anyone is interested) just this night.
Sadly I wasn't prepared for this event - I didn't know what to do!

So while you are trying to achieve lucid dreams also try to keep a short list of things you might want to do in your dreams. While I did remember my shapeshifting experiments (which is something I personally have a really hard time with - while other people tell me how easy it is for them) I didn't remember to change the dream to a less diverting one. I've had persons talking to me or giving me strange looks which in the end took my attention from my initial intentions away and I lost lucidity.
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« Reply #10 on: 04.09.2009, 18:15:57 »

Thank you, nifelan, for running this sig and for posting that overview of topics now.

For your interest: There was a radio programme on lucid dreams here on Tuesday (in German).
It can be found here as audio and as script: http://www.swr.de/swr2/programm/sendungen/wissen/-/id=660374/nid=660374/did=5103310/11vhh6a/index.html
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nifelan
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« Reply #11 on: 04.09.2009, 18:28:20 »

Thanks Smiley

It might be interesting to note that I had yet another lucid dream tonight. All I had to do was to pay a little bit more attention to strange things and to do reality checks every now and then. Sadly, I wasn't very concentrated in my dream and the dream lost a lot of clarity and detail which then made my attention shift from "I'm dreaming" to "this is not good, perhaps I can increase focus by moving over there...".

I also talked to the dream-representation of a person I know in real life and had a chat about the possibility of us dreaming the same thing just right now...
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