Off Topic > General Furry Talk
Women at Furry Conventions
Cheetah:
Ha!
I knew this headline would get your attention :) I've been pondering if this is the right forum for this topic. This is not an official "Eurofurence" related posting, but more of a personal philosophical question that has been bothering me for a while, and since it IS kinda con-related (although not limited to EF), I've finally decided to start a discussion here.
I know that gender can sometimes be a vague thing, but let's put that aside for the moment. We all know that furry cons have a very uneven male-to-female ratio. At Eurofurence our attendence is roughly 89% male and 11% female. Without going into speculations why that may be the case, it lot of potential to create tension, as according to recent polls, the majority of the furry fandom is in fact not as gay as prejudice wants to make us believe. Or to put it bluntly: There's an awful lot of single men, and as such, how do you even get started looking for a girlfriend, date, or even just a flirt?
I recently came across an "advice" article by JM Horse (which really is more of an opinion piece), that brought the topic back to my mind, and while I strongly disagree with the "advice" given in this article, I think it is about time we start talking about these things. If you have the time ... please give this a read:
* [adjective][species] : How to pick up (furry) women
Now, I'll give you my personal opinion on this article. I think the author brings up some interesting facts, but I totally do not agree with his conclusions:
--- Quote ---It's true that women are staying away from public furry gatherings, and they're staying away because they are being harassed by men who are hoping to pick them up, talk to them, or just make friends. Data collected online (ref Furrypoll) and data collected at large conventions (ref IARP) show this trend: online we're (around) 80% male; at conventions we're (around) 90% male.
--- End quote ---
That's actually misleading ... the numbers show that women are less likely to attend conventions, but none of the cited studies tell us anything about the actual reason - instead the (persumably male) author draws his own conclusions from anecdotal evidence. On the basis of this assumption, he gives us the following advice how single males are supposed to approach women at furry conventions:
--- Quote --- * Furry gatherings are a Safe Space. Don't approach any woman who is not already a good friend.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote --- * If you are interested in someone, ask online or over text (not in person) whether she is interested. Make it brief and respectful. If she isn't interested, drop it. Forever. Consider this person for evermore to be a friend of yours.
--- End quote ---
Wow, that's pretty extreme. But later on, in the comments section he goes even further:
--- Quote ---Essentially, if you are approaching someone female because of her gender, I think that you're contributing to a significant problem in our community.
--- End quote ---
And his final advice for us singles out there:
--- Quote ---Being single can be lonely. It can be easy to think of a relationship as something you need. This is compelling but flawed.
--- End quote ---
So, in short: Don't bother. You're outnumbered, and women don't want to be talked to, and being lonely is great! Well, maybe I'm exaggerating, but what strikes me is that his whole observation is terribly one-sided ... and that is, a 100% male centric view. The concept that men talk to women to "pick them up". Very bold claims about what women think, but it doesn't seem like women had any actual contribution to this article.
So ... I would like to ask ALL THE WOMEN in this forum (please, dear flying spaghetti monster, let there be any reading this, or this will end up very embarassing for me) to give us your own view on the situation. What advice would you give men trying to approach women at furry conventions? Before going to your first furry con, where you concerned about unwanted attention? Has this actually held you back? How were your actual experiences at furry conventions? Did you get a lot of creeps following you - more than your male friends? Any stories to tell? Would you agree with what JM wrote in his blog article? Or do you disagree?
I'm dying to hear your answer.
Sithy:
My reply to this article can be summed up as:
"what."
I have been harassed at conventions -- furry, sci-fi and anime alike in fact. I don't think this is unique to furries (or men). For the sake of not writing an essay though I'll stick to furry cons. Yes, I've had my share of creeps at EF. To be very honest, I expected this to be less of an issue at furry cons (male gay majority) vs sci-fi cons (male straight majority). You can call me naive, I guess I was :-). I've had the usual inappropriate touching, inappropriate offers, stuff like that. It's always been handled wonderfully by Security might I add, I've never felt unsafe. Ever.
For every creepalicious male I met though, I've met a LOT of really nice guys. It's ridiculous to say guys should not approach a girl because omg she may have had some bad experiences at cons. Yeah, those bad experiences happen. Such is life. A furry convention is not set up to be my 'safe space', it absolutely should not be. I don't mean these incidents are OK or should happen. They're not. But to expect every man to therefore treat me and my fellow ladies like queens? Wow. No.
I much prefer to be amidst men and I enjoy their friendship. I'd hate to think I may not have met close friends because they took this article seriously and didn't want to approach me. (OK, I suffer from resting b*tch face meaning I look extremely unapproachable when I'm lost in thought ;)) I've gotten a few very close friendships with men from this fandom, they talked to me because we share an interest and there's no underlying "plot" of picking me up. The article seems to suggest all men at furry cons to talk to women -just- to pick them up.
Advice to give? This actually goes for anyone, male, female, inbetween, whathaveyou... Be polite. I know furries tend to be quite big on hugs, but I don't like to have contact like that with strangers. I can do a handshake. Say your name. Talk. I've met a lot of people that sort of...quietly hung in a corner without ever speaking to me and that is disturbing. I know not all of us are social butterflies but a "hi" goes a long way. I see a lot of quiet staring and lurking about and that creeps me out a lot. With an article like this though, I can see how males get discouraged.
Also, for goodness sake, don't go "hi I'm LittleLion69 I'm gay I like thisthat fetish". I don't care. I don't need to know. I don't want to know.
KyuubiSaoirse:
I disagree so very much with that article as well.
Well, EuroFurence20 will be my first FURRY con ever, but I'm really looking forward to it and not dreading any unwanted attention - I've been a cosplayer for 4 years and LARPer for 1½ years now, and so, I'm already used to all the attention and luckily, I've only met one or two guys who bordered on the creepy side. Everybody else have been very nice and open. I've been a furry for a little over half a year now, and still I've only gotten the positive kind of attention from other furries. Then again, of Danish furries I know a little better, it's about a 50/50 ratio of males and females.
But my advice to the guys would be; just be yourself. Be open, friendly, kind, do exactly what you would do to approach a woman outside of the convention area. Don't be pushy, let her take the steps along with you, and you'll be just fine!
Sundance:
My wife stopped attending Eurofurence a few years ago, though she'd been a regular attendee, and introduced me to some of the finest people I got to meet in the fandom.
One of her listed reasons was her getting hit on again and again (and, I am led to understand, quite a little bit awkwardly).
In general, I think the advice highlighted by Cheetah in the top post would contribute toward making her feel comfortable returning eventually.
Do you want me to poke her about this matter? I can't promise she'll reply herself (females taking contrary positions in largely male-dominated online groups can get nasty very, very fast, though of course I hope we're all better than this here) but I'll relay her position as needed.
Edit: In fact, it occurs to me it we may in general obtain more useful answers from women who stopped coming to EF. Is Taran still around this forum?
Edit edit: Erm, not to say the above contributions aren't useful. :/ I meant, if the question is, "Why are women in the fandom less likely than men to come to EF?" then the women not coming are likely the best people to ask.
yagfox:
I'm afraid I would have to agree with a lot of what JMhorse says. I suspect it's written from a slightly embittered point of view, but you can only write honestly from your own experience, and I suspect what he writes reflects what he has seen, which also matches what I have seen.
I would not approach any woman at a furry convention that I did not know. I have seen way too much talk of "creepy male furs" to risk being branded as such simply for existing.
I fully appreciate that people will disagree, and trust that disagreement is based on their own experiences. But I've seen what I've seen.
So how do you get a girl in the furry fandom? Be as pretty as you can and they'll come to you!* ;)
*Not based on actual experience! ;)
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