Eurofurence Information > Feedback
EF20 feedback
timoran:
--- Quote from: Chakat Blacktail on 31.08.2014, 10:47:26 ---Well the reasons for closing one hour before are simple Security reasons most people who register in that time are only bystanders
--- End quote ---
You don't know that - what you are saying to me is that I would not have been a serious bidder if you had sold me stickers. Yes?
Why would someone get stickers if they didn't intend to bid on something?
In any case, whatever your reasons, nowhere was this cut-off announced in advance.
Cairyn:
--- Quote from: timoran on 02.09.2014, 02:06:03 ---You don't know that - what you are saying to me is that I would not have been a serious bidder if you had sold me stickers. Yes?
--- End quote ---
You may have noticed that the stickers are free. If someone has tried to sell you some, you have been scammed.
As for serious bidders: I have asked people year after year to bid early to express their interest in a piece of art and to "negotiate" a price through bidding. The Closing procedure has never been intended as a "pre-auction", but as a hopefully fair way to allow people a final check of their desired art (and their bids), and to prevent sniping as far as possible. Thats why we call last bids (last bids... not first bids) and close panel after panel.
Sadly, this intent has been largely ignored, with a high number of bidders who place their bid at the very last moment to get their piece as cheaply as possible (circumventing the price negotiation and aiming at the possibility that they are the only bidders present at the moment of closing). You can observe this tendency by visiting the art show at Friday opening, when only a minor number of bids have been placed (not bidding apparently as the attempt to prevent driving up the price early).
Bidding earlier (getting to the maximum price before closing) would not just prevent many of those last-minute bids and ease the crowding situation during Closing (because a bold offer deters competitors), it would also lead to fairer revenue for the artists (because the bidders have more time to decide, whereas time pressure during the Closing causes people to drop out earlier). If I remember correctly, you claimed earlier in this thread to support this cause.
Other conventions handle the closing differently, forcing bidders to drop the pen on the spot, or closing in a much more hurried manner hardly giving people time for a final offer. We have arrived at our manner of closing after careful consideration of available methods. Unfortunately, this also requires some strict rules in the process to prevent crowd incidents.
--- Quote from: timoran on 02.09.2014, 02:06:03 ---In any case, whatever your reasons, nowhere was this cut-off announced in advance.
--- End quote ---
Except in huge red letters on the flipchart sign directly in front of the art show registration.
Cheetah:
--- Quote from: Cairyn on 02.09.2014, 09:31:21 ---Sadly, this intent has been largely ignored, with a high number of bidders who place their bid at the very last moment to get their piece as cheaply as possible
--- End quote ---
Ebay has taught people that sniping is the only way to get a good deal. Sad story :(
Fafnir Kristensen:
--- Quote from: Cairyn on 02.09.2014, 09:31:21 ---You may have noticed that the stickers are free. If someone has tried to sell you some, you have been scammed.
As for serious bidders: I have asked people year after year to bid early to express their interest in a piece of art and to "negotiate" a price through bidding. The Closing procedure has never been intended as a "pre-auction", but as a hopefully fair way to allow people a final check of their desired art (and their bids), and to prevent sniping as far as possible. Thats why we call last bids (last bids... not first bids) and close panel after panel.
Sadly, this intent has been largely ignored, with a high number of bidders who place their bid at the very last moment to get their piece as cheaply as possible (circumventing the price negotiation and aiming at the possibility that they are the only bidders present at the moment of closing). You can observe this tendency by visiting the art show at Friday opening, when only a minor number of bids have been placed (not bidding apparently as the attempt to prevent driving up the price early).
Bidding earlier (getting to the maximum price before closing) would not just prevent many of those last-minute bids and ease the crowding situation during Closing (because a bold offer deters competitors), it would also lead to fairer revenue for the artists (because the bidders have more time to decide, whereas time pressure during the Closing causes people to drop out earlier). If I remember correctly, you claimed earlier in this thread to support this cause.
Other conventions handle the closing differently, forcing bidders to drop the pen on the spot, or closing in a much more hurried manner hardly giving people time for a final offer. We have arrived at our manner of closing after careful consideration of available methods. Unfortunately, this also requires some strict rules in the process to prevent crowd incidents.
--- End quote ---
mmm
I was in front of many panels at the closing (for reasons, I had bids there) and most stickers I have seen being put at that moment were duel bid between people. I have seen very few "scavengers" (fortunately for artists).
and the time pressure during the closing usually push people bidding more than they would have with a calm mind, I have observed that many many times.
also most people around panels are people being sure nobody else outbid them. bystanders stay a bit away of the crowd crush and are certainly not the ones staying in fronts of panels when the panels are getting closed.
you may also remember the number of bid was increased on the bid-sheet to prevent too many pieces to go to the voice auction because the voice auction was starting to take too much time.
I think you are diabolizing a bit the people bidding at the artshow :)
Tekumseh:
Well - I was security for Art Show Closing the last few years and experience was, that we had to stop people from entering the room because it was too crowded. This was to be prevented, if you want a fair closing, where every bidder can get in and check their bids. But with far more people at the con how can you do this? Security together with the art show crew came up with this preocedure: close bidder registration well before the closing (to allow preocessing of possible queue), allow only registered bidders into the room, form queues outside the show if room capacity is reached. All that was well announced.
And it was not because of lazyness of people - mind your tone when accusing those who work well into the night while you enjoy a drink at the bar! >:(
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version