Eurofurence Community > General Discussion

Official Statement Regarding the Policy Debate on Twitter

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o'wolf:

--- Quote from: kooriki on 23.06.2015, 21:19:13 ---EF is a long way to travel to have to hide in a hotel room!
--- End quote ---

Have you ever seriously considered attending Eurofurence? Or is it some case of "I disagree with the policy of an event on a different continent that I won't be able to attend any time soon?" What is your motivation to discuss this here?


--- Quote ---Closer to LARPing or a subculture/fandom, but call it what you like.
--- End quote ---

Now that's peculiar, because further down you write:


--- Quote ---Lets look at it from the other side: Most people think of furries and the fandom as a fetish (Not far from the truth either).
--- End quote ---

So you are trying to tell us here that age play is just some entirely non-sexual role play but furry and the fandom at large are "a fetish". Sorry, that doesn't fly.

And by the way, as the press liaison I talk a lot to people outside the fandom and listen to how they perceive us. From my experience your impression that "most people" think of furry being a fetish is wrong. And before you play that "maybe in Europe" card: I've been travelling through the Americas a lot, it's not much different there.

Any inside perspective is distorted. This is valid for any social group. If you take a point of view from the outside, things are often much different. First of all, it's not completely black and white. There are large regional and cultural differences when it comes to what is still acceptable or not. However, fursuiters rarely raise an eyebrow anywhere. Open age play, on the other hand, is generally considered unacceptable in Germany. Our venues certainly do not want to be mentioned in a front page article picturing an Adult Baby in the tabloids. Which WILL happen if they find someone running around in such an outfit. And neither do I want to read my name along this, by the way. Even if it were my kink (which it isn't.)


--- Quote ---If my hobby is so upsetting to someones morals then they wouldn't make a good friend anyway. We all can choose who we associate with.
--- End quote ---

So, as you obviously don't agree with our morals (or even reasoning) and don't want to associate with us, why are you debating?


--- Quote ---we don't care if a couple of fools think the con is an organized fursuit orgy or are creeped out by dancing forest critters.
--- End quote ---

The dancing forest critters are one of the main aspects of the event, and nobody has a problem with it. We'd have a problem if our public image were that of a four day long orgy (regardless the "themeing"), as we are not that kind of event. It would require a completely different kind of venue, anyway. And attract a different audience, of course.

kooriki:

--- Quote ---Have you ever seriously considered attending Eurofurence?
--- End quote ---

Im going to be in London around that time and flights are pretty cheap. I've since made other plans so I'm not going to EF this year (Nothing to do with the recent twitter drama)


--- Quote ---So you are trying to tell us here that age play is just some entirely non-sexual role play but furry and the fandom at large are "a fetish". Sorry, that doesn't fly.

--- End quote ---

I was saying ageplay is like LARPing/a subculture/fandom, similar to the furry fandom. The PUBLIC perception of the both of these are that they are fetishes. (IE: It's inaccurate to equate ageplay with diaper fetishism similar to how it is inaccurate to equate the fandom with yiff.) I'm sorry if you misinterpreted what I was saying.



--- Quote ---And by the way, as the press liaison I talk a lot to people outside the fandom and listen to how they perceive us.
--- End quote ---

When you talk with people outside the fandom, do they know beforehand that you are a furry and supporter? That greatly influences their response. I'm a very private fur; No one but my S.O. knows. Coincidentally I work with a very 'out' furry. People around the office (who know what a furry is) thinks he's into kinky costumed animal sex. (Truth be told he's just very socially awkward.) Its not worth correcting them, but its noteworthy.


--- Quote ---Our venues certainly do not want to be mentioned in a front page article picturing an Adult Baby in the tabloids.
--- End quote ---

Yes, that has been mentioned many times and is accepted. This translates to: If ageplay is an integral part of your fursona/costume/fun, EF is probably not the furcon for you. If you still wish to attend you are welcome to wear your costume privately in your room.


--- Quote ---So, as you obviously don't agree with our morals (or even reasoning) and don't want to associate with us
--- End quote ---

Im a furry so I totally want to associate with other furries! Im going to assume that you, especially as a press liaison, aren't stating that ageplayers are morally objectionable? It sounds like that is what you are suggesting but I'm going to assume it's a language barrier. Truth be told I can befriend anyone! If a friend looks down their nose at me and is 'morally opposed' to my personal interests that would make for a difficult friendship. Why go if you're not welcome? Its about the attitude of the crowd. Policy is a different matter. Again, Cheetah has cleared this up - Babyfurs are totally welcome as long as they keep the ageplay low-key/hidden.


--- Quote ---We'd have a problem if our public image were that of a four day long orgy

--- End quote ---

--- Quote ---It would require a completely different kind of venue, anyway.

--- End quote ---

Hahaha, awesome..!

Zefiro:

--- Quote from: kooriki on 24.06.2015, 03:13:56 ---If ageplay is an integral part of your fursona/costume/fun
--- End quote ---
So this is what this is about?
If I understand you correctly, if you can't "ageplay" - showing yourself in a way obviously regarded as (adult) baby by whichever means - then you're not having any fun, at all?
As opposed to it being one of many different activities you could do, each bringing joy - without this one, nothing is worth it?

I'm asking because this is what is puzzling me the most. I've my own kinks (also mentioned in the RoC, btw), but they are "add-ons". Sure, integral part of who I am and what I enjoy, but I can easily enjoy other parts of the fandom without them, and thus keep them to the room or to 'other conventions with fitting venues'. I'm sure even most fursuiters would be fine with a no-fursuit-area/time and still enjoy fandom activities (e.g. some small regulars' tables actually forbid wearing furry identification objects).


*purrrrrr*

Klaatu:
I can fully agree with Zefiro here.

And btw.: I'm still wondering why so many people think that EF is a convention (or an event in general) to display their fetishes. I mean...are you also wearing that stuff at your workplace or in public? I'm sure you don't. And why? Because it's inappropriate and easily causing problems. So why are you guys doing that at EF then? Because it's your free time/holidays and you're among people of your kind (furries)?
I think that many people forget (or don't realize) that EF is a public place as well and that it's being held at a location which is a 4* superior hotel with a kinda good reputation.

If you're showing off your fetishes by wearing inappropriate clothing and accessoires at a convention that clearly distances itself from that section (for the simple reason to be allowed to host a event like that at that place) you don't only negatively affect the general repution of our fandom, but also (more importantly!) our good relations with the hotel. THAT is the most important thing. If the hotel staff and direction feels uncomfortable with it (even if it's no blatantly sexual stuff), there's no need to discuss these things at all, it has to be accepted by every attendee that's going to visit that convention! And the job of the EF-team, the security and the public / press relations department is to make sure that the hotel feels comfortable with us to ensure that they wanna have us coming back next year again (and the years after). And every attendee should have that same purpose as well (if EF is important for you).

I sometimes have the impression that some attendees simply don't care how they're coming across in public or in front of the hotel personnel. But this is not how it works. There have to be rules to follow and if there are rules and you're not agreeing with them, then this might not be the right event for you. With the registration for a con, you automatically subscribe these rules. And still, a lot of people ignore these rules at the con, what causes more strain for the security. Or the sec doesn't see it at all (because they can't have their eyes everywhere), but others do, who then feel annoyed by it. Or the media finds exactly what they're searching for. Do we all want that?

EF is a convention about our furry culture with the main focus on art, music, entertainment, the community and many other cultural aspects. It's not a fetish convention and will never be. That's why there are no official fetish-panels/events in the schedule as well. Everything that happens at the hotel rooms happens at the privat space of the respective persons and is NOT part of the convention. And therefore it's ok, as long as you do not offend against the hotel rules (like destroying things, etc.). No one cares what you're doing at your room and no one considers it as part of the convention, because it's your private space. But please, as soon as you leave your private room, don't forget that you're back to the actual convention space again where clear rules are valid.

No one forbids you to be who you are and to live how you like to. But isn't it so difficult to just respect the rules of the con/hotel (even if you personally don't fully agree with them) and to be a bit more decent? It's only a matter of decency, nothing more than that. If you still think that these rules are not fair or you're feeling "offended" by them, then you should maybe take into consideration that EF might not be the right con for you and that you should maybe better visit conventions that are having the main focus on sexual things and are being held in special locations where you don't have to hide something you can't hide. :)


That are just my personal thoughts on this topic. I'm not part of a department that has something to do with it, so you actually don't have to care about what I've written here.
I just kindly recommend to read my thoughts on that and to think about it. Thanks. :)

kooriki:
Thanks for the reply Klaatu, my questions/concerns were already answered by Cheetah.

-K

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