Eurofurence Community > General Discussion
EF14 - Will there be overflow?
Tekumseh:
--- Quote from: Cheetah on 26.09.2007, 13:02:35 ---[...]
We're very close to that limit. I don't think EF will be able to return to the ringberg hotel in 2009 ... heck, we might even crack the 1000 in two years.
--- End quote ---
Know what? Actually I don't hope that this comes true...
Cheetah:
--- Quote from: Tekumseh on 26.09.2007, 15:20:23 ---Know what? Actually I don't hope that this comes true...
--- End quote ---
It's a force of nature. It happens or it won't. But there's nothing you can change about it :)
Shazomei:
--- Quote from: Cheetah on 26.09.2007, 13:02:35 ---
--- Quote ---The biggest thing I am worried about will be a rush to register when it opens in January, because furs will be worried about it being overbooked, just to find out in the end that they will be unable to attend.
--- End quote ---
Yes, that's a known problem ... Anthrocon is suffering heavily from this problem. Uncle Kage calls it "attrition". Their main trouble is, that room reservations are fully refundable, resulting in a significant financial setback for their hotel.
However, since EF memberships and hotel reservations have to be paid up front and are not refundable. That means, we don't get any organisational or financial problems. The only real drawbacks are, that we have to turn down other attendees becaus of spaces blocked by others who might not be able to attend, and the extra work for the reg team due to last minute membership transfers.
So far it has been managable, though.
--- End quote ---
I've probably just misinterpreted what you've said to Fawks, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
I can understand that if a person has paid, and then finds out they can't attend; you've given a disclaimer that it is their responsibility, not yours, to make sure all their arrangements have been pre-planned, and therefore you cannot be held responsible for any absence.
Because of the way the registration system works, I would've thought it would be nearly impossible to overbook the con. But surely, if it ever gets to the point that you are overbooked; because said persons would have paid in advance, aren't you legally obligated to give that person a refund if you are forced to turn them away?
--- Quote from: Cheetah on 26.09.2007, 13:02:35 ---
--- Quote ---I am not sure how full the waiting list was this year, but it will almost certainly be larger next year, and last minute cancellations would cause serious havoc on the staff.
--- End quote ---
What bugs me more than that is, that it makes it a matter of good luck and a matter of being able to pay early to attend. I really don't like this. It fragments groups of friends, and it gives EF some "elitist" taste that I really do not want. But then, there is not much we can fdo about it other than to keep a healthy growth ... but it is becoming increasingly hard to find good hosts for our con. We are becoming the victim of our own success.
--- End quote ---
I think the only way EF could be perceived as elitist depends on what leniency you give to pay the invoice the earlier a person registers. Thankfully, for your sakes, none of us are privy to that information. I would be extremely upset if I learnt that you guys extended the invoice period to people who registered early, rather than giving every registration a fixed period to pay the invoice before voiding the registration if they defaulted payment. Surely it would be better practice that if any registration defaults, under any circumstance, that they are forced to re-register joining the back of the queue. It would be fairer than just merely suspending the early registrations who are allowed admittance as soon as they can pay; it would certainly be a lot fairer to people who know they can secure payment almost immediately after registering, rather than people just waiting to see how long they can drag their heels for or for those who know they aren't financially secure upon registering.
--- Quote from: Cheetah on 26.09.2007, 13:02:35 ---
--- Quote ---(I realize this is all hypothetical and is not of concern until next year or later, but EF is almost certain to gain enough attendees that it could exceed that Ringburg's capacity... EF16 - Frankfurt :P)
--- End quote ---
We're very close to that limit. I don't think EF will be able to return to the ringberg hotel in 2009 ... heck, we might even crack the 1000 in two years.
--- End quote ---
The question I'm asking myself is how much like Anthrocon is Eurofurence trying to be? Only you can answer that really. :) The thing is, the more the capacity grows, the higher the costs for attendance (ergo, for the attendees) will be. If the only purpose for Eurofurence is to rival Anthrocon for capacity, Anthrocon would surely win hands down because of corporate culture in American. American corporate culture surely encourages them to have hotels that would supercede the capacity of any that Germany could supply. Therefore, if I didn't think I was going to Eurofurence to also embrace German culture, I wouldn't see the point in going. :)
MOW:
--- Quote from: Shazomei on 27.09.2007, 04:18:26 ---I've probably just misinterpreted what you've said to Fawks, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
I can understand that if a person has paid, and then finds out they can't attend; you've given a disclaimer that it is their responsibility, not yours, to make sure all their arrangements have been pre-planned, and therefore you cannot be held responsible for any absence.
Because of the way the registration system works, I would've thought it would be nearly impossible to overbook the con. But surely, if it ever gets to the point that you are overbooked; because said persons would have paid in advance, aren't you legally obligated to give that person a refund if you are forced to turn them away?
--- End quote ---
It is impossible to overbook the con. As soon as all rooms are full, registration switches to "waiting list or attendance only".
People who know they can't make it would be able to transfer their paid registration to someone from the waiting list.
--- Quote ---I think the only way EF could be perceived as elitist depends on what leniency you give to pay the invoice the earlier a person registers. Thankfully, for your sakes, none of us are privy to that information. I would be extremely upset if I learnt that you guys extended the invoice period to people who registered early, rather than giving every registration a fixed period to pay the invoice before voiding the registration if they defaulted payment. Surely it would be better practice that if any registration defaults, under any circumstance, that they are forced to re-register joining the back of the queue. It would be fairer than just merely suspending the early registrations who are allowed admittance as soon as they can pay; it would certainly be a lot fairer to people who know they can secure payment almost immediately after registering, rather than people just waiting to see how long they can drag their heels for or for those who know they aren't financially secure upon registering.
--- End quote ---
As long as there still is enough space, this doesn't really hurt anyone, but cancellation runs will be done at the latest when the hotel is filled to a certain degree, which will probably be not long after registration starts. And don't forget the attendance fee increases towards the con date, so early payers do get some advantage.
Myself, I registered as attendance-only this year and upgraded to full attendance only shortly before the con when places became available again. Otherwise I'd have ended up in off-site accomodation ... but that wouldn't have stopped me ;)
Cheetah:
--- Quote from: Shazomei on 27.09.2007, 04:18:26 ---The question I'm asking myself is how much like Anthrocon is Eurofurence trying to be?
--- End quote ---
Honestly, we're not actively trying to be like any other con. But then, we're also not actively trying to be NOT like any other con ;)
We're just trying to do a good job, and do what it takes. If that means "copying" what works well at other cons, hell yeah :) But it surely doesn't mean we're in a competition. We should inspire each other, and not compete :)
--- Quote ---If the only purpose for Eurofurence is to rival Anthrocon for capacity
--- End quote ---
That's a common misconception. You don't grow because you WANT to. You grow because the demand grows and you have to adapt in order to keep people happy. If one day 3000 furs want to attend Eurofurence, we have two choices: Shut down, or provide the majority of those people with convention space.
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