Eurofurence Information > Feedback
EF24 Feedback (Many points)
Rishary:
I would love to see responses / discussion about the other points of feedback that I have written, not just the early access.
--- Quote from: EchoesAbove on 02.09.2018, 19:41:54 ---As an artist and regular attendee view, I personally wouldn't even mind if the sponsors and supersponsors had a specific daily timeslot to browse the DD. They decide to give something to a Con they love, so why not give them an hour of stress-free Den browsing? I can't afford sponsoring, but I totally agree that those who can should receive perks. Not to "pay" them, but to show them gratitude.
I personally tend to visit the Den shortly before closing or during popular events, because I dislike getting shoved around by a gazillion people. And guess what? I still got a hold of nearly all the artists I wanted to this year. Not being able to commission the 80€-sketch artists whose slots are sold out within seconds of the Den opening won't kill me. And yes, I have artwork made by those artists myself.
If you're that desperate to get a slot with a super limited artist, talk to them! Believe it or not, most artists are super agreeable. Be nice, be polite, value their work and you can even get files to print artwork at home because shipping long distance for a single print is just stupid. I have files on my PC for printing artwork that hung in the Mainstage =P
--- End quote ---
I agree, which is why I stand by putting that timeslot on Friday or Saturday and letting whoever wants to chase a hard to get commission to queue up on Thursday. All the other perks (Including early access at a day other than Thursday) are great ways to show the sponsors gratitude.
Of course missing on arsits whose slots are sold out within seconds won't kill anyone but getting to them shouldn't be decided by who agrees to pay 160 euro extra (Or get a friend to do it for them) - You want it, you queue up, fairly.
It still boils down to the following cases:
If you can get them on later days/outside of the con then this perk would be just as valuable on another day that isn't Thursday.
If you can't get them on later days/outside of the con then it isn't fair, it just adds 160 euro to whoever wants to get them or they simply ask a friend (If they wouldn't happen to super sponsor regardless)
o'wolf:
This is going in circles.
The underlying issue is that everyone — well, maybe not everyone, but a huge amount of people — wants to be among the first in the dealers room when it opens on Thursdays. Obviously, that cannot work and only leads to a huge queue with a waiting time of several hours. For safety reasons, we cannot allow that. The queue blocks the emergency routes, causes medical issues for those waiting in line for hours (dehydration, etc.)
Given that we currently cannot increase the size of the dealers room without doubling the registration fee to rent ECC hall 2 - what can we do then? The completely fair solution would be to randomly assign time slots for visiting the dealers room. I cannot imagine that anyone wants this. Another is to send anyone away whenever the queue has grown too large. This would cause a lot of aggression and complaints - and most importantly: it does not solve the issue as those turned away will just congregate elsewhere.
Another way is to stretch the rush by giving certain groups a head start, such as sponsors and super sponsors. This is giving our valued sponsors something back while reducing first rush issues. Fair enough. As a side effect, it effectively drives away wisecracks who'd camp out in front of the doors... However, the combined group of regular and super sponsors grew to approximately 900 attendees, almost a third of our total number of attendees. While we very much appreciate their support and thank everyone for their contribution, this poses the problem that the first rush queue got way too long to be handled safely again. So this year we decided split the combined sponsor group into super sponsors and regular sponsors. This reduced the size of the queue for both groups and thus the individual waiting time, and kept it safe for everyone.
Thus, while super sponsors are getting something extra this way, it's basically a side effect of crowd control.
Rishary:
--- Quote from: o'wolf on 02.09.2018, 21:57:03 ---This is going in circles.
The underlying issue is that everyone — well, maybe not everyone, but a huge amount of people — wants to be among the first in the dealers room when it opens on Thursdays. Obviously, that cannot work and only leads to a huge queue with a waiting time of several hours. For safety reasons, we cannot allow that. The queue blocks the emergency routes, causes medical issues for those waiting in line for hours (dehydration, etc.)
Given that we currently cannot increase the size of the dealers room without doubling the registration fee to rent ECC hall 2 - what can we do then? The completely fair solution would be to randomly assign time slots for visiting the dealers room. I cannot imagine that anyone wants this. Another is to send anyone away whenever the queue has grown too large. This would cause a lot of aggression and complaints - and most importantly: it does not solve the issue as those turned away will just congregate elsewhere.
Another way is to stretch the rush by giving certain groups a head start, such as sponsors and super sponsors. This is giving our valued sponsors something back while reducing first rush issues. Fair enough. As a side effect, it effectively drives away wisecracks who'd camp out in front of the doors... However, the combined group of regular and super sponsors grew to approximately 900 attendees, almost a third of our total number of attendees. While we very much appreciate their support and thank everyone for their contribution, this poses the problem that the first rush queue got way too long to be handled safely again. So this year we decided split the combined sponsor group into super sponsors and regular sponsors. This reduced the size of the queue for both groups and thus the individual waiting time, and kept it safe for everyone.
Thus, while super sponsors are getting something extra this way, it's basically a side effect of crowd control.
--- End quote ---
Actually, we are definitely not going in circles as you managed to present me with the first logical, thought-out, non-fallacious and well put argument on this subject ever since I started having discussions and debates about it. This could single handedly convince me to admit defeat and drop this feedback point if:
a. I would understand why I got all the other responses first, even from people who should have known this reasoning. (I understand that you owe me nothing here, but why wasn't this brought up first if this is the reasoning?)
b. In the future, when the con (hopefully) continues to grow and eventually outgrows the venue / or requires the renting of ECC hall 2, assuming that now the queue is no longer an issue, the perk would be up for discussion again.
Since we can't really know anything about the future (Condition B) we can just ignore that one for now. I would be very satisfied with just condition A.
On a side note, do you know if this is also the main reason in other cons that choose to provide this perk?
Futeko:
--- Quote ---a. I would understand why I got all the other responses first, even from people who should have known this reasoning. (I understand that you owe me nothing here, but why wasn't this brought up first if this is the reasoning?)
--- End quote ---
This is literally the first thing I told you about this topic (see page 1). Sorry if that wasn't clear/detailed/logical/thought-out/non-fallacious enough.
Rishary:
I beg to differ, this was never represented by you as the main reason. Instead it was just thrown in as another non-main argument. You phrased it as:
"Please also don't disregard the fact that having..."
If this was the main argument and was indeed a safety issue (blocking fire exits, dehydration from standing in queue) you would have used those terms instead of saying it's there to provide "a more comfortable experience".
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