The Eurofurence Forum
Eurofurence Information => Feedback => Topic started by: ANTIcarrot on 16.01.2017, 10:14:56
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I honestly expected was to get a room or not get a room in the first 10 or 20 minutes, since I thought Estral/third-party would be providing an appropriately configured server/cloud. The reality was a little different. Does this match anyone else's experience? ::)
Click EF link -> Too soon.
Click EF link -> Server not configured properly
Click EF link -> Server not configured properly
Click EF link -> Book a room -> Timeout
Click EF link -> Book a room -> Server not configured properly
Click EF link -> Book a room -> Enter group code (and other stuff which I assume means link not valid)
Click EF link -> Book a room -> 'Loading' in german. -> Booking page -> "Cannot book multiple rooms for one person" error -> Google translate -> Select multiple people then multiple rooms -> "Book" button (I think) -> "Reservations must be changed or canceled via the original booking system." -> <Back> -> Server not configured properly
Click EF link -> Book a room -> Timeout
Click EF link -> Book a room -> Timeout
Click EF link -> Book a room -> 'Loading' in german. -> Ten minutes pass (8:56) -> Internal Server Error - Read / The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request. / Reference #3.ac81655f.1484554340.ad08ae4c
Click EF link -> Book a room -> 'Loading' in german. -> Booking page -> Select multiple people then multiple rooms -> "Book" button (I think) -> [All room turned red] -> Internal server error
Click EF link -> Boom a room page appears then instantly changes to Internal Server Error - Read
The EF link included language ID which was set to 7. Would it be possible to provide the link in different languages next year? ID1 to ID7?
The system seemed to be run by iHoteler, which is a professional company, but perhaps they didn't get the message about being spammed by ~420 bookings in the first minute.
The most frustrating part of the experience was finally getting through to the booking page, and clicking on the 'next' button only to be kicked in the teeth, TWICE. >:(
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I did not actually count the number of errors I got when trying to book a room via the original bookings.ihotelier.com link. However, two friends of mine managed to book a room via an alternate link:
https://reservations.travelclick.com/17417?hotelId=17417&groupID=1604780
It is slow and displays error messages too, says no rooms were available... but after a couple tries, it worked. The confirmation email my friends got came from the Estrel, so it's not an overbooking site (ihotelier is a product of TravelClick). Looks like they weren't made aware of how much traffic they would get. Took us about three hours now to book two rooms. X3
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This new system sucks, I am sorry to say that, I am sitting here since four freaking hours and couldn't book a single room and I am not the only one here, all my friends have the same problem.
Sure I know that the Eurofurence doesn't run the website and its technically not their fault but come on.
Not only that a lot of people have to get credit cart which are not common in Germany, they open the "Hotelroom Reg" on 9 a.m. on A MONDAY where the one half is working and the other one is sleeping. They changed a system which worked for 22 EFs for one which collapse in a second.
Congratulations ...
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This new system sucks, I am sorry to say that, I am sitting here since four freaking hours and couldn't book a single room and I am not the only one here, all my friends have the same problem.
Sure I know that the Eurofurence doesn't run the website and its technically not their fault but come on.
Not only that a lot of people have to get credit cart which are not common in Germany, they open the "Hotelroom Reg" on 9 a.m. on A MONDAY where the one half is working and the other one is sleeping. They changed a system which worked for 22 EFs for one which collapse in a second.
Congratulations ...
you are so right i have to ask all my friends for using there credit card and when i finaly get home from work and try to book all i get is
Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://bookings.ihotelier.com/bookings.jsp?" on this server.
Reference #18.16fd043e.1484572421.7a925fd4
a friend gets on with a card and he can't select extra days
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Pages probably down for maintenance. Main pages thorow 404, so it happened on purpose
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Yeah the site is down and I couldn't still book a room... sigh...
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Yeah the site is down and I couldn't still book a room... sigh...
Same here :(
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The perhaps weirdest thing is there's been reports of people not being able to book any rooms all over the place, safe for a few lucky ones who reported success, and yet in the final minutes before the servers went down it appeared as though most rooms were already booked out, with only Standard Twin Rooms remaining.
Nice.
I'm just going to curl up in my bed now and try to catch up on the sleep I've missed out for five hours and thirty minutes of this bullshit. /rant
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i stil booked at standart twin room after its said inaviabel need to clivh 10 tmes but it worked
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This was a total disaster just as I predicted. "Better, Faster, Less Frustrating" yeah right...
I wasted 5 hours of my life booking a hotel room.
@Lonewolfdiconis:
SIGNING EVERYTHING A THOUSAND TIMES !
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I wasted 5 hours of my life booking a hotel room.
Did you at least get one? ^^ I wasted 5:30 hours on nothing but frustration.
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Yes, I got a room right before they closed the ibooking site for good.
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i have been trying since 9am and kept getting errors ,it kept sending me in cirkels ,and if i wanted to change the language it no longer remembered i was sent bye Eurofurence ,i finaly got a room from the 16 till the 20th , but we wanted to 14 till the 21ths i hope that we can still get down days.
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So a friend gave me this link to book https://bookings.ihotelier.com/Estrel-Hotel-Berlin/bookings.jsp?hotelId=17417 with the Grouppromo code EUROF130817_001
but it seems that all rooms are full
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Just a point of order for everyone: This is called the FEEDBACK section of the forum, not the running commentary section. Let's try to keep any comments or criticism constructive.
With that in mind, does anyone here have any suggestions as to how to avoid this next year? (Baring in mind the staff have already given the reasons for why the old system was unworkable.)
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How about collecting booking emails for one day then a lottery for the rooms? Would be less frustrating then this one... wasted 6 hours for nothing.
And how will it work with the waitng list for roms that will become free?
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A lottery is even more random. I'd say the people booking first should still get a room more likely then the ones after.
Maybe open the room booking and EF registration at the same time and send a link to the booking page with the confirmation email rather than posting it beforehand on twitter or the forums.
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Even more random than this? At least it wouldn't take me several hours...
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You can do multiple rounds of Hotel reg.
or
Making a waiting list & a lottery with rounds system : at least, everyone would get the SAME chance to get a room.
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A lottery is even more random. I'd say the people booking first should still get a room more likely then the ones after.
How can it get more random than this:
- I started one second after regstart filled in EF page manually and got 916.
- I spent 100 min in the morning and failed my mate took a late shift and succeeded just by using the alternate link while I had to go to work.
- basically you have a score here, being in the right chat groups, getting hints from friends, automation of web-forms, pre-reg as a staffer
- interestingly sporting the fandom as a fursuiter, social behavior (3 people rooms) or sponsorship does not raise your chances to get a room
- so you have the random element and spent time and spent money: if you paid EF immediately and have to sell it for a big discount now.
Now the constructive part:
- force people to be social: build room groups, sell the rooms first week 3 people rooms (one per group), second week 2 people rooms...
- at least punish for holding rooms locked unnecessarily: charge a night one week after booking even if the room is returned (like FC)
- offer a refund on request for people loosing in the room lottery. It's questionable to punish them for simply paying too early.
- on the contrary you could be a convention with much more supersponsors when you grant them earlier room access at the next con...
I don't like the idea of paid lottery (even for charity). It's taking money from those getting no room in future even in big amounts for those
which hate to miss the next Con and still let it happen. And as soon as you go pure random you end with multiple amount of pure virtual
attendes selling their room possibly on a second market for rooms. And when rooms are not transferable then second beds of luckily won
rooms... In fact it could finance lucky newcomers the con.
Unfortunately there is little motivation to do something. Neither the hotel nor EuroFurence has a benefit for optimizing anything. You will
disappoint the same amount of furs whether you act or not, the applause of the same amount of furs will be not different at opening or
closing, likewise the Estrel will sell the same booking whether it acts or not and so we will hope for new secondary booking links passed
around when primary fail - take a day vacation for next booking day - and will wait for the new Estrel tower to open...
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Unfortunately there is little motivation to do something. Neither the hotel nor EuroFurence has a benefit for optimizing anything.
Well, Eurofurence is simply leaving the room admin to the Estrel because EF doesn't have the capacity to do it any more, and the Estrel used iHotelier to have a professional handle the rush.
Given that the Estrel is paying iHotelier for their service, you may assume that the provider will get an earful after completely mishandling/underestimating the issue. The Estrel has a reputation to uphold, so there is motivation galore. (Will iHotelier be up to the task next year? I sure hope so.)
Sadly, there is still luck needed to get a room in this hotel; even the new tower (once built) will not suffice forever, there are more potential attendees than space, unless we move to a pure conference center and leave booking hotel rooms completely to the attendees (losing the socializing opportunities of a single conference/room site, and most likely increase room prices a lot).
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More constructive critique:
Issue reservations in batches that open every hour or even at different days, so that only a limited amount of people will access the reservation site at one moment:
- First people with special conditions, like wheelchairs, bad eyesight or other conditions that require them to be close to the con site or have a special room.
- Secondly the fursuiters. It's unpractical for them to rent a hotel at a number of kilometres distance, because they have to carry a lot of heavy stuff.
- Third batch: regular guests. I agree with the request to book for 2 or 3 guests per room.
Maybe more batches can be made; I would recommend having an open, democratic discussion about this so it's not just a 'management decision'. With due respect for the management; look at it from a positive angle: if people have a say in it and there is some consensus, the people will find the decision reasonable and will support it better.
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So in order to get a hotel room I need to check the box that I'm a fursuiter? Cunning. 8)
There is no way to check if someone is a fursuiter, I can claim to be one but transporting it caused trouble, or it's send back to the maker for last minute adjustments and I'm hoping to get it back during the con. And other excuses.
Also a batch system would not work, because what's stopping me from giving the batch code to my friend who is in the end of the queue?
ps.
This is my view on this, I am not speaking for EuroFurence.
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Doing "few batches" was more or less the system used last year, during EF Reg night, each membership was manually processed and people got their link to book the room during the night and the day after : no problem with the website/booking system (and it was exactly the same server/website).
It helped spread the load on the system during a whole day.
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- Secondly the fursuiters. It's unpractical for them to rent a hotel at a number of kilometres distance, because they have to carry a lot of heavy stuff.
I bet my fursuits are still smaller than what some artists bring for the Artist Alley.
Us fursuiters already get a lot of support with the Fursuit Lounge. There is no need to carry the suit back and forth daily.
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EF fursuit londge is way way way nicer then the one at US con's :)
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- Secondly the fursuiters. It's unpractical for them to rent a hotel at a number of kilometres distance, because they have to carry a lot of heavy stuff.
I bet my fursuits are still smaller than what some artists bring for the Artist Alley.
Us fursuiters already get a lot of support with the Fursuit Lounge. There is no need to carry the suit back and forth daily.
Myself, also being a fursuiter, see an issue with the needing to define what counts as a Fursuit. Is it for only full suits, partial? Can someone claim to be a suiter if they wear a none full furry cosplay gear (which can be heavier) but that has ears and a tail (Anime style) Does that count?
As much as it would be nice to get an edge for being a suiter, there is too many ways people can get around just the definition of it.
On a possible solution note;
Being employed in the hotel business. I know many large groups booking conventions sometimes do all the room booking for the guests.
In EF's case, they would have a section in their registration to prebook the hotel at the same time. This would require the attendee to include all the names of their roommates and any special requests. EF Staff (Which would be it's own small crew) would verify and cross reference the registration information and build the room blocking. If there are any errors or inconsistencies their hotel bookings would be delayed until the crew can get the correct information from the attendees. Meanwhile the registrations whose information that matched get first slots and hotel rooms booked first.
This would give EF way more control, for example;
- Blocking party floors
- Fursuiter requirements like being roomed closer to larger elevators and fursuit lounge
- Den Vender needs; like being closer to den or near the closest elevator to the den.
- Have an option to accept "Random roommate selection", which helps fill in those little gaps and lets people have new friends.
- Sponsorship levels, may bump you to the head of the line?
- Etc.
At the end, the hotel would take that information and do a final blocking it to the best of their abilities in the zones described by the EF team.
Overall this puts all the accountability on the Furs who are registering to make plans with friends for sharing rooms and to have all thier information correct and accurate.
It reduces the "Mad rush" to book multiple rooms and over booking.
It lets the Con section off areas of the hotel to be more convenient for those attending.
The payment method needed to secure the room can be the one used to pay for your con passes.
And also allows the hotel an easier time to manage everything.
That's my thoughts from over here in Canada.
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Quote from : Jorinda
I bet my fursuits are still smaller than what some artists bring for the Artist Alley.
Us fursuiters already get a lot of support with the Fursuit Lounge. There is no need to carry the suit back and forth daily.
I agree with that Jorinda:-)
We are also 3 Fursuiter and booked us a room in the IBIS-Hotel.
The Suits leave us in the Suiterlounge not carry back and forth. :)
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Being employed in the hotel business. I know many large groups booking conventions sometimes do all the room booking for the guests.
From what I read, that's exactly what the EF staff doesn't want / can't do anymore.
This is a lot of work and responsibility, and we can't expect them to do all of that for us.
It also includes a not-so-insignificant financial risk for the people involved.
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Quote from : Jorinda
I bet my fursuits are still smaller than what some artists bring for the Artist Alley.
And I sometimes have trouble walking while carrying nothing due to medical issues. So... A dealers den artist, a fursuiter, and someone with medical problems all walk into hotel reception. There's one room left. Who gets it? This is the kind of question without an answer that most hotels would not want to get involved in, and which EF almost certainly doesn't want to get involved with.
Though... Come to think of it.... There might be something that some of us could do to alleviate this situation in the future...
Attention please! Attention please!
That huge building project to the south of the hotel is due to become a sunken highway at some point in the near future. And until they finish that, the Estrel can't start building their tower, and we can't get our extra 700 hotel rooms and bigger dealers den. Therefore could any German nationals annoyed with the hotel-room situation please consider writing to your MP (or equivalent) and/or the German Highways Agency (however that translates) and politely ask them to "Get on with it!" ::)
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Tried to get an answer yesterday from estrel about the estrel tower, but got no anser (maybe they were too busy, dunno)
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- Secondly the fursuiters. It's unpractical for them to rent a hotel at a number of kilometres distance, because they have to carry a lot of heavy stuff.
As I wrote in the other thread:
Besides that it's impossible to tell whether all who have checked the fursuiter box during registration are actually fursuiters (let alone that they're going to bring and wear a fursuit at the convention), this won't work for another reason: nearly 46% of all registered attendees have checked that box, more than the number of guest rooms at the Estrel. Even though many fursuiters are having an other fursuiter as a room mate, this probably might have worked this year, but certainly not with the projected number of attendees for next EF.
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...That huge building project to the south of the hotel is due to become a sunken highway at some point in the near future. And until they finish that, the Estrel can't start building their tower, and we can't get our extra 700 hotel rooms and bigger dealers den. Therefore could any German nationals annoyed with the hotel-room situation please consider writing to your MP (or equivalent) and/or the German Highways Agency (however that translates) and politely ask them to "Get on with it!" ::)
I am sure that the City of Berlin will make it their Number One Priority...
...Right after they get that new airport operational!
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...That huge building project to the south of the hotel is due to become a sunken highway at some point in the near future. And until they finish that, the Estrel can't start building their tower, and we can't get our extra 700 hotel rooms and bigger dealers den. Therefore could any German nationals annoyed with the hotel-room situation please consider writing to your MP (or equivalent) and/or the German Highways Agency (however that translates) and politely ask them to "Get on with it!" ::)
I am sure that the City of Berlin will make it their Number One Priority...
...Right after they get that new airport operational!
So the day Half Life 3 releases? :x
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I's nice to see that my initial suggestion to put fursuiters in an early batch had a lot of meaningful responses.
Just to make one thing clear: I'm not concerned with fursuiters per se, it's just a way to start a discussion :). If all fursuiters can leave their suits in a safe room in the hotel while staying and if carrying the stuff to the hotel and back again once is not a problem, then the idea of putting them in an early batch is less urgent. However, even one of the skeptics of this idea did mention putting fursuiters close to elevators and such, which proves that it is of some concern after all.
I suggest we look for rational, social and practical criteria. Look at it as a logistical operation, which it is in many ways. Such problems are hard to solve if everyone fights for his own interest; but solutions can be doable for everyone if some thought is put into it and there is some central coordination.
Some people are concerned with fraud and with criteria. That's a reasonable concern, but I think we're more than a pack of hungry wolves and we can think about the interests of other people than ourselves to some extent. The more reasonable and doable the criteria are, the more people are willing to stick to the rules, even if they have to take a step back personally.
The problem with solutions that need too many details is that this puts too much logistical stress on either the hotel or the con organisation. So criteria have to be simple and are thus not ideal by definition.
A simple criterion is to make an estimate about the weight of your stuff and luggage and how much carrying around is needed. Then it is clear that a comic dealer should get an early room close to the dealer's den. Same for maybe puppeteers and some suits, but not all.
Whatever system we can think of, there will be some amount of fraud. But there are proven counter-measures to prevent fraud; we don't need to reinvent the wheel. The nice thing about weight is that it can be measured by objective standards. Of course, requiring every furry to put his stuff on a balance, like at an airport, would be silly. However, if we really want to have some policing, we can randomly select a small group to check if they told the truth, and put (possibly symbolic) sanctions on abuse. That will inspire the majority not to mess with the system. That is, if people are really that distrustful and need such policies.
But nobody knows if a better system is better indeed until it has been tested. The worst thing we can do is let a crappy and frustrating system continue for the next ten years without trying out at least some alternatives.