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Eurofurence Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: CleanerWolf on 08.09.2010, 02:07:09

Title: Suggestions for future EF locations
Post by: CleanerWolf on 08.09.2010, 02:07:09
While driving back from Magdeburg to Berlin, my co-driver Charon mentioned some interesting location - Tropical Islands.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_Islands
http://www.tropical-islands.de

It's a very very large hall, the largest in the world which is now used as some kind of holiday refugium with lots of plants, pools, bungalows and campsites. There are some stages, bars and restaurants too. Around the hall are some more hotels and campsites. It's hard to say, whether there are enough beds for 1000+ people, more research about this would be needed. Prices are moderate, because TI still suffers under lack of visitors.
A downside may be the climate condition, because they keep the temperature in the hall at 26 degree celsius, which could be problematic for fursuiters.
I am not sure about dogs being allowed... probably not in the pool areas, but I couldn't find specific information about that.

What do you think?

Any other ideas?

I am sure, there are better places than Maritim Magdeburg, we just have to discover them :)

Edit:
Ok, it seems, that dogs are NOT allowed in TI, so no suitable location for me. Grrrml...  ::)

 
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Schakaline on 08.09.2010, 02:15:23
If you find a hotel that has at least 1,000 beds and function space for 1,500 people, give me a call. Oh, and it should be no more than €80/night, and the staff needs to be able to bend over backwards to accomodate a furry con.


What, you haven't found any?


That's what I thought.
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: CleanerWolf on 08.09.2010, 02:35:16
If it has to be a hotel, the Estrel in Berlin could be an alternative, but I am not sure about the prices. That would need some investigation and negotiation. But I am not in the right position to do that, because I am no official Furcon e.V. member.
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Riffuchs on 08.09.2010, 03:17:22
The Estrel in Berlin is WAY TOO large for EF's needs and also way too expensive. But I wouldn't mind - It's just five kilometers away from home :D
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: foxb on 08.09.2010, 13:13:07
New hotel is awesome! Yeah its not the Ringberg but you know things change and such. Six years from now when were too big for this hotel everyone will be wanting to stay here as well. ^.^
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Cheetah on 08.09.2010, 18:50:36
Just as a reminder ... you're looking for an alternative location for 2012 and coming ... that means you'll have to go looking for place for 1500-2500 people. We already neraly hit 1000 this year, and we will definitely already go beyond that next year in the Maritim in Magdeburg again.
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: CleanerWolf on 09.09.2010, 00:17:17
The Estrel in Berlin is WAY TOO large for EF's needs and also way too expensive. But I wouldn't mind - It's just five kilometers away from home :D
Maybe you're right, but...
Just as a reminder ... you're looking for an alternative location for 2012 and coming ... that means you'll have to go looking for place for 1500-2500 people. We already neraly hit 1000 this year, and we will definitely already go beyond that next year in the Maritim in Magdeburg again.
So, if Cheetah is right, the Estrel might be the only option left, because it seems to be the only hotel in Germany with so many beds and function space. Furthermore it's specialized on events, so it should handle EF easily.
Charon told me, that the Estrel wouldn't be more expensive than the Maritim and he explained it with the Estrel having problems to fill up all the beds and therefore they probably would be happy to have an event like EF going on in their house. Dunno whether it's true or not, but it could be worth a try.

But I doubt, that EF will grow that much anyways. I think that the maximum is reached now. If the spiral of more furs -> bigger hotel -> higher prices continues, more and more people will skip EF, going to smaller and cheaper cons and meetings instead. Maybe EF will end as a second anthrocon with 80% rich US furs.
I talked to some furs and also read comments in forums about EF16 being their last EF or only visiting it in the future to sell stuff in the dealer's den. I already missed some familiar faces at this EF and I am afraid, that there will be less next year.

Don't get me wrong, I still love EF, it's THE event of the year for me, more important than christmas and eastern together, but hearing and reading the complaints of other furs I doubt that EF will grow far beyond what we had this year.
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Cheetah on 09.09.2010, 01:43:44
But I doubt, that EF will grow that much anyways. I think that the maximum is reached now.

So far, the numbers disagree with this theory. A stunt in growth was to be expected with a 50% price increase, and yet we did grow again this year. Furry Fandom as a whole is still growing exponentially, and there are no other events in germany to draw a significant number of attendees away, so there is no objective reason to believe in stagnation.
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Fangz on 09.09.2010, 11:54:26
The meritim as a hotel is the worst I ever stayed at, crapy service in every way and alot of flaws with it and horribly expensive...

That being said the con itself was great :P with a better location it would been "omg fall over and die pawsome" hehe

oh and just wondering, is it german furence or something? :P since only in germany seemed too be considered ^^
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Vixus on 09.09.2010, 12:11:29
The meritim as a hotel is the worst I ever stayed at, crapy service in every way and alot of flaws with it and horribly expensive...

That being said the con itself was great :P with a better location it would been "omg fall over and die pawsome" hehe

oh and just wondering, is it german furence or something? :P since only in germany seemed too be considered ^^

Germany is picked because it's central europe, I guess.

Edit: I'd rather see it in the Netherlands :D
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Fairlight on 09.09.2010, 12:16:15
It's pretty tough to organise an event the scale of EF in a different country from where the majority of the staff resides. Also, the majority of the guests come from Germany.

The last time EF took a chance with that was EF9, and it ended rather disasterously, with attendance numbers dropping by a lot, and a ton of problems with the venue and coordination issues.
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Sirana J. Helena on 09.09.2010, 13:04:56
Hiho,

I did some research via Internet (superficially of course) and it's really hard to find something which fits.
In my youth I had the possibility of visiting a few hotels myself as a tourist and I did find some nice hotels, for example the Quality Inn Hotels (which are part of Choice Hotels). First I wanted suggest these until I found out how small they are. And so it was with many other hotels, too.
My mother, whose job it is to organize conferences and who visited EF twice, suggested the Globana Trade Center Leipzig/Halle  or Globana Airport Hotel but this was to small either, because it's for business conventions where nobody expects the whish of having all participants in just one hotel.

I want to discuss this topic with her again next week end and maybe she has another idea, but after hours of searching with google I am not that optimistic.

Still I might have an idea. After the EF 16 which was an example for a con in a business orientated hotel it's easier to say what a location should have. So maybe it is possible to ask Maritim as a company which one of their hotels would fit more. Or you talk to other companys like Dorint. I already had good experience with them, too.

Also it would be possible to look for official conference hotels and stuff. Of course, they are business orientated, too, much more than ****-hotels. But they also expect events with lots of people who are travelling there from all other the world and probably need a place to stay which is near by.
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Loewi on 09.09.2010, 13:28:17
Hiho,

I did some research via Internet (superficially of course) and it's really hard to find something which fits.
In my youth I had the possibility of visiting a few hotels myself as a tourist and I did find some nice hotels, for example the Quality Inn Hotels (which are part of Choice Hotels). First I wanted suggest these until I found out how small they are. And so it was with many other hotels, too.
My mother, whose job it is to organize conferences and who visited EF twice, suggested the Globana Trade Center Leipzig/Halle  or Globana Airport Hotel but this was to small either, because it's for business conventions where nobody expects the whish of having all participants in just one hotel.

I want to discuss this topic with her again next week end and maybe she has another idea, but after hours of searching with google I am not that optimistic.

Still I might have an idea. After the EF 16 which was an example for a con in a business orientated hotel it's easier to say what a location should have. So maybe it is possible to ask Maritim as a company which one of their hotels would fit more. Or you talk to other companys like Dorint. I already had good experience with them, too.

Also it would be possible to look for official conference hotels and stuff. Of course, they are business orientated, too, much more than ****-hotels. But they also expect events with lots of people who are travelling there from all other the world and probably need a place to stay which is near by.


We've done exactly that and found the maritim.
We didn't just take the first offer we got, we always do alot of research and believe us or not, the maritim was and still is the best and one of the very few locations fitting to us for now.
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: MOW on 10.09.2010, 00:45:43
In my youth I had ...

That coming from you just made me feel really, really old.
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Sirana J. Helena on 10.09.2010, 02:47:38
Hrhr..

No need. Just the advantage of a great mother who does her job well enough to get little presents like musical tickets and place in hotel rooms. :D
Maybe late childhood fits more.


..ok, maybe this didn't help..

@Loewi: I surely won't affirm you didn't search enough. As I said, my research was just on the surface, a few hours of google. I suppose it were much more you did, with many telephone calls and mails.
I still heard very different things about Maritim Hotels, so maybe there might be another possibility, especially now, when you know what surrounding conditions EF needs. Or I'd better say the participants.

I wasn't at EF 16 but I read many comments about the con and nearly everything negative I read was about the hotel. Can't remember anyone who didn't say you (Orga) did really great and who wouldn't regard your hard work.
Many of those problems existed because the hotel is the business hotel, just like any other possibility would be, so I am not saying, there are many possibilities out there which fullfill all our dreams. Still I'm think it's worth looking for something else (although I don't think there will be many chances for a lower confee or something nearly impossible like this).
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Drift on 10.09.2010, 14:51:28
But you can also read about positiv aspects as well.  ;)

The thing is that with approx. 1000 participants, there will ALWAYS be somebody complaining about something. Does not matter what venue you will find, I recon.
 
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Onkel Kage on 10.09.2010, 18:07:50
Get ready, Cheetah!  Here come the Arm-chair Con-chairs!

Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Furrysite on 12.09.2010, 15:18:50
maritim hotel is very good but unfortunately very expensive .
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: o'wolf on 12.09.2010, 15:44:18
maritim hotel is very good but unfortunately very expensive .

Congratulations! You are the 1000nd forum member mentioning this! And here's your price! You win the answer that there is a supermarket right across the street, excellent but inexpensive restaurants around the hotel, and that parking at the nearby parking lots is much cheaper than the hotel garage.
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Mazin on 15.09.2010, 21:43:52
I wasn't at EF 16 but I read many comments about the con and nearly everything negative I read was about the hotel.

Probably because the con had such a good relationship with the Ringberg, and no matter how good a new hotel may be, that kind of relationship is something that isn't built in an instant. For what it's worth, EF16 was my first EF, and I didn't find anything particularly negative about the hotel itself that couldn't be classified under "staff not used to the venue yet", and I never found any of the hotel's staff to be rude.

Give EF a few years at the Maritim so people can build up some good memories there, and I bet you we'll be complaing about leaving it for a larger hotel! ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: drayygon on 18.09.2010, 01:48:52
Get ready, Cheetah!  Here come the Arm-chair Con-chairs!


Just like armchair politicians, they get everywhere they do.
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Shiro on 24.12.2010, 15:12:55
Hey guys.
After having read through this topic and the one about the good and bad with the new hotel,
I have started to wonder about why convention centers seemingly hasn't been brought up much yet, least of all from the EF staff.

I know some of the reasons for it is that EF isn't big enough for it, but there are smaller convention centers, about the size of 2 indoor football fields.
I also know that the EF is build up like one big party "as mentioned by Cheetah in the EF13 dvd"
But as the demands for rooms get bigger, finding a hotel with fair prices becomes much much harder, especially finding ones that have functionally convention areas.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is.
Have the idea about going for a convention center in the future been up?

Because looking from the outside it just looks like the EF staff is fixated on the idea that is has to be a hotel.

Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Schakaline on 24.12.2010, 15:50:56

I guess what I'm trying to ask is.
Have the idea about going for a convention center in the future been up?

Are you just counting on this post going unnoticed because everybody's away on family holiday, or have you really been NOT paying any attention at all in the past umpteen years?  m(
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Shiro on 24.12.2010, 16:10:24

I guess what I'm trying to ask is.
Have the idea about going for a convention center in the future been up?

Are you just counting on this post going unnoticed because everybody's away on family holiday, or have you really been NOT paying any attention at all in the past umpteen years?  m(

Is there a specific reason that the post I see written by you feels like your slapping people in the face?

1. No writing a post hoping that it goes unnoticed is a rather stupid idea, as every member on this page will just check on what topics has gotten new posts in them when they return.

2. If there is a post where convention centers in the future has been noted or discussed. How about giving the short sum-ops of what happened.
Or the lazy approach give a link
Either way it would be more helpful, and it would make it more easy to take you "as a staff member" seriously

Sure getting a slap remark for a question is something i would expect on a image board.
But on a convention forum.. Not so much
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: SouthPaw on 24.12.2010, 22:06:21
I guess what I'm trying to ask is.
Have the idea about going for a convention center in the future been up?

Have you any idea of the economics involved behind such a move?

Conference rooms at Hotels tend to be (relatively) cheap if you guarantee a certain number of room nights. (In EF's case, that's the majority of the Hotel). A standalone conference centre is VERY expensive.

Not the same country, admittedly, but the ExCeL Centre (http://www.excel-london.co.uk/) in London quoted a rate of £16100 (around €18950) per day, exclusive of tax, for the use of their Conference Centre (capacity 1100) a couple of years ago.

Cheers,

Southie
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Shiro on 24.12.2010, 22:44:46
Have you any idea of the economics involved behind such a move?

Conference rooms at Hotels tend to be (relatively) cheap if you guarantee a certain number of room nights. (In EF's case, that's the majority of the Hotel). A standalone conference centre is VERY expensive.

Not the same country, admittedly, but the ExCeL Centre (http://www.excel-london.co.uk/) in London quoted a rate of £16100 (around €18950) per day, exclusive of tax, for the use of their Conference Centre (capacity 1100) a couple of years ago.

Cheers,

Southie

Well it should be mentioned that London is the second most expensive city in Europe. Right after Copenhagen.

But no I haven't looked far into the area.
I just noticed that allot of other cons use this form "anime, gaming"
And if they use it, it doesn't sound like its a totally problematic thing.

Off course I could look into the conference center prices outside of the big citys.
But I think that is for the EF staff to do, since in the end its their desission.
I was just curios if that approach had been looked into at all.
Since I Haven't had luck to find any mention about it.

Merry Christmas :D
Title: Re: Suggestions for EF location alternatives
Post by: Cheetah on 25.12.2010, 17:39:59
Hey guys.
After having read through this topic and the one about the good and bad with the new hotel,
I have started to wonder about why convention centers seemingly hasn't been brought up much yet, least of all from the EF staff.

We have considered it, but we didn't bring it up in public because so far we haven't seen a single one that satisfies our criteria ... not to mention the very hefty pricetag. Typical convention centers have a lot of function space, but usually no or just very little hotel capacity on location. Normal trade fairs draw mostly walk-in audience, who only come for one day and drive back to their hotels scattered around a 100km surrounding area via train and car when the exhibition closes for the evening.

So, as long as we can fit everyone in one hotel without a one-hour drive between hotel and convention, regular convention centers are pretty much out of the question.