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Eurofurence Information => Feedback => Topic started by: Keidran on 21.08.2011, 00:29:39

Title: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Keidran on 21.08.2011, 00:29:39
Good day everyone,
I think I'll post this while my experience is still hot.
Please... PLEASE this is my own opinion. You may have yours so please don't try to force your opinion into me or insult.
You may discuss the topic ofcourse. But please respect the opinions of everyone. I will try and do so too.

Sooooo
Aside from the starting difficulties (which are EF traditions ;D ) it was a nice EF.
The puppets looked great, the props were awesome (I liked that little Null booth xD) and the technique was very cool.
It was very nice to see that you tried something new with those 3-People Puppets. Was a nice addition.

Now we come to the stuff that "bothered" me to some extend.
first of all the acting was a bit rough this year. There were some text errors and some blant parts. but okay. Not too big a problem.
second was the fact that it wasnt as emotional as last years PPS. I really cried last years when the 2 birds were talking (i think that was the part near the end). This years EF lacked it nearly completely. The only halfway emotional moment was the part under the tree. But that was mainly the
doing of the BGM. It wasnt as touching than the year before.
Third was the seeing of the puppeteers. I understood it that it was kinda normal for the big guys. But sadly I had the feeling that a lot of the smaller ones had the same problem. Last year (yes I'm comparing it to last year since its the same stage) I saw very very rarely a puppeteer. But this time I nearly saw them always in the scene. And I sat in the very back right at the sound table. And I could clearly see them from back there on the main stage (videoscreens are something different offcourse because the camera angle)
Fourth and last one: It didn't have a nice ending. The video message of Null was very nice but it ended too abruptly and didn't had a nice stage conclusion. The message behind what he said was great. No question. But for the characters... it was a bit too hmmm how to say it.
I dunno how to say it in english sorry :< so german: Ich fand es gab keinen wirklichen abschluss für die Geschichte der Charaktere. Das fand ich persönlich etwas zu abgehackt.


So this was it. I hope you understand my critic and don't hit me with a foul trout or something like this.

Greetings
Keidran

PS: I totally loved Null as a character! Thousands of Kudos to Henrieke to make him look so awesome and the puppeteer for giving him such live.
PPS: I also loved the Nerfgun action xD That really added to the overall fun.,
PPPS: The cameos of the usual main cast was great!!!
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Cheetah on 21.08.2011, 14:38:21
Thanks for your feedback! I agree with some of what you say, but please realize ... we're just a bunch of guys doing a show out of a friend's garage. I take it as a compliment that you are judging us by such professional standards :) We are not professional actors, we are not professional technichians, we are not professional writers. We're people like you. We do it in our spare time, next to our day jobs, and we only do it only for the show at EF.

And we do it for the fun of doing it. We're living scattered around Europe, and nobody pays us so we can rehearse for weeks and months like professionals do.

Keep in mind how hard all the people in this production have worked to make it happen AT ALL. We never get to try out the production until we arrive at the hotel. Our dress rehearsal took 12 hours, an entire night from 19:00 to 07:00 in the morning. If you then find out, something doesn't work out as planned ... there is nothing you can do about it. Yet everyone has given their best ... up to complete exhaustion. The crew dropped like dead when the final rehearsal was done, and some people went straight on to do their day job at the con after just an hour of sleep.

And we only get that one show per year. As I said we're no professionals. Can you imagine how nervous we are, doing a show before 500 people, as complete amateurs? I dare you to stand in front of that audience and see how nervous you get :) So yeah, we sometimes stumble, we miss our lines, it's what happens.

And you just said how hard it is for you to write this posting in english, because english is a foreign language for you. Now ... imagine how hard it is for US to write an entire SHOW in a foreign language, and then also PERFORM it in a foreign language!

So you'll always find rough edges and unpolished spots ... and that is not going to change in the future. But thanks for your sincere words, and it's also very nice of you to also mention the things you liked. That really keeps us going :)

Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Fairlight on 21.08.2011, 19:23:23
The problem with the puppeteers' head being visible was due to the size of the new puppets compared to average arm lengths. We had to lower the play rail so people could see the full puppet instead of just the upper part of it, and unfortunately that meant that we couldn't 'hide' as well as usual. Not the ideal solution, I know, but the best compromise we could find.

Maybe in future years we use less superlarge quadruped puppets to aboid this, but to be fair, it was fun having them. But he quads added to the acting issue, as suddenly you need to synch 3 people for each and every move, and turning around to face another puppet suddenly becomes a matter of logistical excellence, hehe.

Very sorry to have subjected you to my head ^.^

Mew,
 Fairlight / Cai Lung
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: SouthPaw on 21.08.2011, 21:21:30
Given the constraints touched on by Cheetah and Fairlight, I think the team do a damn good job to put on a 2.5 hour production every year.

Sure there are minor niggles, but then they only get four rehearsals before the show, and the team are believed to have real lives outside of the fandom, so those are excusable. And with the new puppets this year, the cast had to combine synchronised movement with whole new characters.

As for the emotional content of the story, I'd imagine it's difficult to get the right balance of comedy and drama to avoid turning it into a soap opera.

At the end of the day, it's the fact that it isn't too professional that makes the show more enjoyable to my mind. If everything ran perfectly all the time (which, to be frank, even the likes of Disney and Andrew Lloyd Webber can't manage), it'd lose some of the charm.

What keeps people coming back, to my mind, is not just the characters or the story, but the dedication of everyone involved in the show, and their teamwork. Your mileage may vary of course...

Cheers,

Southie
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Karasaph on 21.08.2011, 22:39:07
Wow, my opinion is the complete oppostie from Kaidran.

I really enjoyed the pawpetshow. The croud control was so much fun with the balloons and the announcment (It was very hard to believe in the first place but fun) I thought "We have fun with the balloons, take as much time as you need". But at least having the imagination of a serious problem going on, I was calm and relaxed able to wait for a long time.
Then the scenes. I thought Mika would be in the center of attention this time but it was different. Big plus.
The introduction of the characters was very interesting and also the description of the PPS didn't give even a clue of how the tables will turn. I was flattered about the sweetness of Cai Lung! <3
Big plus were all the ideas you put in: The fursuiters taking part in the press conference in the audience and the lightning going into the stage. There were a lot of jokes I could relate to and that have not been done in a pawpetshow before. Flynn's bar! I loved the bartender there! It was so realistic XD

I really have no idea how one could top that the next time, but this PPS showed me again that the whole teams creativity is unlimited.

It was said before the show that there might some heads to be seen, which I can understand because of the difficult handling of the pawpets.

Maybe it's just my opinion, but I think that you do it so professionally, that you could even do this professionally. ;) Pupetering is after all a thing liked by theather goers http://www.haenneschen.de/index.php?kat=Startseite

And once again, thank you for such a wonderful show. I really had to cry at the scene with the tree. The music, character development and lighning just worked so together perfectly, I had to let it go. I even have tears in my eyes thinking about it, but now it's happyness of such a wonderful memory.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Keidran on 21.08.2011, 23:01:45
Thanks for your feedback! I agree with some of what you say, but please realize ... we're just a bunch of guys doing a show out of a friend's garage. I take it as a compliment that you are judging us by such professional standards :) We are not professional actors, we are not professional technichians, we are not professional writers. We're people like you. We do it in our spare time, next to our day jobs, and we only do it only for the show at EF.

And we do it for the fun of doing it. We're living scattered around Europe, and nobody pays us so we can rehearse for weeks and months

yadda yadda yadda (shortened for viewers pleasure)


Thank you for your long explanation Cheetah,
Ofcourse I know that you all aren't professionals =3 But you are on a close level to the professionals. And you still have fun doing it.
That's where I bow not only my head before you and the whole team but my whole body (if it would be physically possible I'd bow 360° around so I'd stand in front of you again)
That's why I never ever came to the idea to say that the show was bad. Oh no. Never. It was like always the highlight of the EF for me and I'd say most of the other furs. I absolutely understand how hard it is and everything.
That's why I wrote this opinion. Not to say "You you you! That was bad! Drama drama llama trallalla", but to try to help you improve it bit by bit.

I know how it is to perform for a live publicum since I was a cosplayer some years ago and did some small cosplay shows. So I aaaabsolutely understand how it feels. =3

Keep doing your awesome work. And if you need help I'd like to try and help out.
(sent you an email on a different matter)

The problem with the puppeteers' head being visible was due to the size of the new puppets compared to average arm lengths. We had to lower the play rail so people could see the full puppet instead of just the upper part of it, and unfortunately that meant that we couldn't 'hide' as well as usual. Not the ideal solution, I know, but the best compromise we could find.

Maybe in future years we use less superlarge quadruped puppets to aboid this, but to be fair, it was fun having them. But he quads added to the acting issue, as suddenly you need to synch 3 people for each and every move, and turning around to face another puppet suddenly becomes a matter of logistical excellence, hehe.

Very sorry to have subjected you to my head ^.^

Mew,
 Fairlight / Cai Lung


Yes I noticed that. It was really a nice addition to the experience with those huge puppets. And for such a hard part you really did well during the show. You performed really really well and the characters came to live very good. that's why the headies are not such a big deal x3
*pets the heads*


@Karasaph:
Your opinion isn't different from mine o,o
or atleast you didn't write the differences down x3
The tree scene indeed was a emotional moment but for me personally it was to short to really build up an emotion.


I thank you all again for the comments and hope to see you again next year!

Lovely greetings
Keidran
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Vector on 22.08.2011, 21:09:16
About the musics, lights & props : it was very nice given the limitations & the budget of a non pro production. Congrats !

About the length of the show : it's damn too long. I have the feeling it's getting longer & longer every year. It was hard to get into the BB dance right after sitting nearly 4 hours on our seats. I would love to see an 1h30 show.

About the story : two points there. It's a love story EVERY year. You change the location, the time, the species...but could we see something totally different (a quest, a sci-fi story, a comedy, etc.) ? I bet we'll have a nice love story between a master and his slave according next year theme. ;)

2nd point. Although you put few nice moments of comedy, it's way damn too serious. I don't feel comfortable at all watching puppets arguying about war, death, politics and all the nasty things of the humanity. The PPS is pretty unique in this way...all the puppets shows I attended outside the furry fandom (pro or non pro) were only fun, not that serious...

About the puppettry : two points there. First, you choosed the hardest kind of puppets to build & perform with the quad puppets. Only very few companies are able to build them properly and they are REALLY expensive and way bigger to hide the puppeteers. Most of the time, they are not for stage use but only for TV use and you need senior puppeteers with years of experience to get the most of it.

Second point, the puppets eyes (all characters) are really badly made for a proper focus. They looked more than fursuit eyes than real puppets eyes that enable a good eye contact between characters, props or the audience. Most of the time, the puppets missed their eye contacts : it really killed the illusion when the characters were not really looking at each other, at props or at the audience.

So to summarize :
- a shorter show
- no more politics, war or too serious subjects
- FUN, FUN & FUN !
- something else than a love story
- classical rod puppets with real puppets eyes (there are some nice puppets builders outhere, feel free to ask me names, some of them are really affordable and deliver PRO puppets for stage or TV)

There's nothing here that is impossible to do for the next PPS. I know it's not a professional production but all the non pro puppets teams I met in puppetry festivals listen to constructive feedback and they use this feedback to improve their next year show/performance.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Draugvorn on 22.08.2011, 22:18:04
In my opinion, this year's Pawpet Show was big improvement in comparison to the last two years and another step forward for the whole team towards the epitome of awesomeness.
Thank you very much for all the joy you give me year after year.

To me, this year's show was on a par with "Dreamcatcher", the first Pawpet Show I attended and the one I preferred to "Operation Desert Snow" and "Ogwambi".
I enjoyed the lack of too much tragedy without the absence of profoundness. It was an entertaining and thought-provoking experience at the same time.

This year's show was, at least to me, an all together marvelous experience. It wasn't to short nor to long, the topic was ambitious but not to depressing for enough humor was employed to counterbalance its graveness. The scene-changes didn't feel long due to the video-sequences and although I am going to miss the old four main characters, it is plain to see why you had to strike a new path.

The music was grandiose as always and there is only one tiny request I would like to make:
Would you perhaps consider to include a song again next time? The ending of "Dreamcatcher" literally blew my mind.

Please do carry on.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: White_Dragon on 22.08.2011, 22:18:04
I catch the comment "we are not professionals" then a thought why is need for such professional and complex paw pets ?

Yes, I was told the old one was or are too small now to show.
But using complex system required practice, practice and coordination = impossible mission for international team or croup who meet only few times.

Also the show was nice but too long, sorry for that I really liked story but it was too much for me sitting and waiting for scene changes, the video inputs was great adds to cover the time. I can believe handle pawpets for so long can be real pain and physical challenge.
     
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Dhary Montecore on 22.08.2011, 23:54:33
Since I couldn't reply to some of the critics here without ranting ( m(), I only state three facts about this years show:

1) For me, it was the best so far. Even on one Level with the legendary Unlucky 13

2) Finally going for fresh characters in a size that is appropriate  for the stage was pure awesomeness

3) I fucking cried. Again. :P

Guys, keep that up. You did the greatest show ever and your characters rocked. Period.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Cheetah on 23.08.2011, 00:32:21
I catch the comment "we are not professionals" then a thought why is need for such professional and complex paw pets ?

Because it's fun to take on a challenge.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Thygrrr on 23.08.2011, 00:39:09
I loved the plot and the great messages about freedom of information and what universal electronic control really means. So the political message was really, really important, and while I still see the paw pet show as light-hearted entertainment, it did venture boldly into political commentary (beyond satire!) territory in EF15 and this time, as well. One could say it has grown up on various levels.

Really, really great job. Fantastic!

Favorites:
The characters were wonderful. Together with EF13, EF14 and EF15, (didn't attend 16) this has been one of the best paw pet shows ever. I refuse to grade them because each one had its own strong points. Emotions weren't as thick in EF17's show, but my eyes still watered.

Null has so many character details... like how he's a black hat hacker but a white rabbit (which come out of black hats) ... or how red his eyes are and how he's basically an albino from living in his "basement"... and how he's completely on top of everyone else's network security, but can't be bothered to write a better bartender script for his night club sim. And he's a really intelligent, witty and idealistic person unwilling to compromise when it comes to freedoms. The world needs more of that type.

By the way, seeing the puppets in cyber gear on the "physical" side of Flynn's Club, with just the weak, low thumping of the bass audible, gave me a complete nerdgasm. I really want one of these cyber decks and tron style night club sims. NOW!

Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Cheetah on 23.08.2011, 00:45:28
I don't feel comfortable at all watching puppets arguying about war, death, politics and all the nasty things of the humanity.

Then why do you watch our show? I mean, seriously, that's like deliberately tuning to a TV station you don't like.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Thygrrr on 23.08.2011, 00:50:13
I don't feel comfortable at all watching puppets arguying about war, death, politics and all the nasty things of the humanity.

Then why do you watch our show? I mean, seriously, that's like deliberately tuning to a TV station you don't like.

Yeah, Vector, and please don't try to change the station we others love. :)

I didn't even see you made that comment, Vector - I think it's one of the best developments in the recent Pawpet Show installments (along with the bold move to throw out the original cast to try building a very intense and captivating plot from scratch - you can do only so much with the original cast, and even though I loved them I like the new characters even more: The nightmare Bats, the Fennecs, and the entire Cast of The Year of the Rat)


About the show length: It was too long for my taste once in the past (the one with the "Dirty Deeds, done by Sheep"), and once too un-funny for too long (the one where Poke had the parodized Lion King apparition and the whole stage was full of actual sex toys).

Ever since EF13, the lengths were quite right - long enough to draw the audience in deeply, short enough to allow for the "cinema in our heads" to continue afterwards. Heck, EF14's show put me out of commission for a whole week, that's what it did to my fantasy - I couldn't help but daydream constantly.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Drift on 23.08.2011, 00:54:40

- Storyline: Was brilliant! A good mixture of drama, seriousness, fun, suspense and political fiction. Please do not change the PPS recepie to only fun, as there are enough other "funfunfun - only events" at EF.
- Setting: I needed half of the show to get warm with it. Generally speaking, the idea of urban China in 2032 with big city skyline, rooftops, subway tunnels etc. is great, but personally I still preferred the previous settings better. 
- Length: In my opinion, it was not to long. The 2 breakes that there are inbetween are sufficent enough to get some fresh air, stretch your legs and get your glas refilled. 
- Props: Sorry, but this years show could not compete with previous years. Two years ago, we had falling snow, a plane, a camp fire, bullets ripping through a tent, a dam with water and a mob carrying torches. Last year, therere was that breathtaking caveystem with fluorocent grafitti, the villiage with the cage etc. I am sure it took hours and hours to create this years scenery, but comparing to earlier shows - a step backwards.
- Pawpets: I like the new characters. I like the biiiig puppets. But not having our 4 usual heroes? No way! For me, that was the biggest draw back of this years show. Please: bring them back!

Last thing I want to say:
Thank you Team Pawpetshow to give us this kind of treat - every year again! You rock! :D And I am already eagerly anticipating next years show.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Thygrrr on 23.08.2011, 01:01:56
Chipping in two more cents before I sign off: I loooooved the 2032 Hong Kong setting! :-)
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: ysegrim on 23.08.2011, 09:08:33
Null has so many character details... like how he's a black hat hacker but a white rabbit (which come out of black hats) ...

Whew, I never got that reference. I always thought this was a reference to Matrix, «Follow the White Rabbit» (which is, of course, a reference to Alice in Wonderland). I'm sure there is still dozens of references in the show I never got ...

And my prize for the Most Surprising Stage Effect goes to -- the Elevator. With the Tron-style avatar erasure a close runner-up.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Quincy the Raccoon on 23.08.2011, 09:38:10
So this was the Pawpetshow? I must say I was very impressed by it. The poking out of some of the heads from some puppetplayers did not bother me at all, it just gave me a special feel (I dunno what). But the story was good, a bit futuristic and a bit 'now', a mix of both. I just adored those raccoons(???) with the nerf-guns  :D :D :D

The scene by the tree with hearts was bit cheesy, but allright. (how did they do that?)

Overall, it was (for me too!) not too long and not too short! And NULL: you are the greatest rabbit ever!  :D
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Druon on 23.08.2011, 11:50:45
Let me start by saying that I liked the pawpet-show very much. My thanks go to all the puppeteers, techies and stagehands involved in the production.

Among the new puppets I especially liked the rabbit, for me he is something like the Doc Brown of the hacking underground. Props and backdrops had several nice touches and I especially liked the cavern in the dragon's nest with that water pool and the lampions illuminating the area.

The story itself was just of the right size, what turned it so long where the times needed for preparing the stage. Even with those nice interlude scenes/videos available, it still took quite a while (and I am not blaming anyone, as the team has no chance to work on that very stage during the rest of the year). With that in mind I would suggest going for a shorter story, so that with breaks and preparations the time remains under four hours. Also I noticed that the story never revisited one place, instead showing off quite a lot of different backdrops. Sometimes less is more: While the backdrops are nice, I am much more into it for the story and giving the puppets more screen – eh – stage time. 

I agree with some others that the show as a whole was a lot more serious than I anticipated and hoped for. I don't want to do you guys any injustice here: In itself it was a pretty good story. But after having seen Bitter Lake the other evening, I was hoping for something to balance out the mood. That movie was beautiful, but sad and serious. So I went into the show looking more for delightful comedy and humor.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Rua Whitepaw on 23.08.2011, 11:54:22
I really liked the show, it was very well made and the story was very good too. I was reminded of the game 'Deus Ex' which has some parts of the story that are very similar. The balance between humour and seriousness was right, I didn't really think it was too serious. In fact I think the EF pawpetshow is quite unique that way because it uses a medium for serious storytelling that's usually reserved just for comedy.

At first I thought that the scenes in the little room where Null was hiding were prerecorded. But then I noticed he actually waited for the applause to stop, which really surprised me, and then of course at the end they confirmed that it was all live. It was really well done!
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Kazzador on 23.08.2011, 13:34:34
even with my bad command of English, I´ll try to give a personal feedback:

I think the PPS was better than the last years back, but the Show on EF 12 is still my personal favourit

cause of one reason:
I don´t like lovestories
The Show on EF 12 was filled with comedy
but after EF 12 it seemed to me, that the shows only focused on lovestories anymore

this year, the lovestory was just a side-story....and I liked it (just my personal opinion!)

I liked the idea behind the Story and I liked the pawpets

but there are some things I didn´t like:

biggest problem (for me)
The waiting time during the stage-reconstruction
I know, that it is nearly impossible to reconstruct the whole backdrop in such a short time (only solution would be, that all backdrops are already fastened above the stage and just get moved down when needed)

like last years, you "covered" this reconstruction-time with videoclips, but you didn´t even came close to fill the whole "waitingtime" with those vids

I know, that it is nearly impossible for you to plan those backdrop-changes, so you can´t know the exact time you have to fill

but this year, it took minutes between the end of the videos and the start of the next scene (and this at every "change of location")


Next problem (for me):
The swearing
for example as the dragon cursed his wife with "motherfucking bitch" I thought 2 things:
1. does it make sense to call a female person a "motherfucker"?
2. that wasn´t funny, it was embarrassing


next point (which was already mentioned in this thread)
in a lot of shots you´ve seen the pawpeteers
and not just those pawpeteers who had to lift their arm that high, that it is impossible to hide their heads


Next thing:
The scene with the regaining memory didn´t worked out (for me)
Cause of 2 points
1. the backdroppaintings with the fluorescent colours were seen on screen all the time like "wet spots"  (there was always a heart shown on the screen :P)
2. the colours didn´t worked well even as the blacklight was on

the effect was a good try, but in my opinion, it failed (again! just MY opinion!.....if all the others say "it was perfect", I´m wrong)



and one last thing, which is just a little detail
Some characters yelled at each other
so far no problem but....
If an actor got a microphon placed in front of his mouth, he shouldn´t scream
Cause if he/she yells into this micro, it doesn´t sound like an angry yell
it just sounds like.......how can I explain that?.....it sounds like a combination out of "ouch! not that loud! now my ears hurt" and "what have you said? I couldn´t understand a word"

It´s like somebody screams directly into your ear

a possible way to avoid that (even if it is complicate):
Get a stagehand with hand-microphone
and at the one moment the char has to yell, shut down the headset of this person and place the hand-micro in about 1 meter distance to the yelling person

Now everyone will hear, that the person screams, but will still understand what he´s saying

Don´t know if this realy works, but yelling into the headset didn´t work eighter :P


and a last time
this is just my opinion

you did a great job with the PPS and I enjoyed it
and as long as it´s imposible to please all of your audience, it´s great to see, that you still try it year after year after year
thank you for that
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Cheetah on 23.08.2011, 15:52:38
The waiting time during the stage-reconstruction

I have to agree with this one. The waiting times tend to be rather long. But the problem lies within the nature of that stage. Have you tried changing backdrops on a 10-meter-stage without any actual theatre-like infrastructure? And we did have some elements in the show that required us to tilt backdrops forward (so we can have doors in them). All this requires time ... and it's incredibly hard to estimate how much time it will take if you never get to try it until the con! So I'm very sorry, we're working hard on making the pauses short, but good looking scenes, with multiple levels of backdrops and stuff, takes a lot of time to setup.

Of course we could simplify it, and just put up flat backdrops and have no depth in the scenes at all. That would speed things up. Or we could have scrapped the firemen-chase-scene which required the panels to be tilted to have actual doors you can run through. That would also have sped things up a lot. But then ... those were all pretty cool things, and they come at the price of having to wait, and it's incredibly hard to find a balance between good looks and setup time if you never get to TRY the setup before the con.

Quote
for example as the dragon cursed his wife with "motherfucking bitch" I thought 2 things:
1. does it make sense to call a female person a "motherfucker"?
2. that wasn´t funny, it was embarrassing

It was not supposed to be funny. It was supposed to be tragic.

What would you say, if your wife, who's just confessed to having betrayed you for 12 years is torturing you while threatening to kill your daughter? We thought it was pretty fitting. It was very personal, very close, and it was a character defining moment, too ... cai-lung is someone who is usually all subdued, calm and gentle. Seeing him explode like that showed just how much he loved his daughter, and just how desperate he was in this situation. It takes a lot to make a lung dragon lose it like that!

So, it was not random swearing. It was intentionally written that way. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.

Quote
next point (which was already mentioned in this thread)
in a lot of shots you´ve seen the pawpeteers
and not just those pawpeteers who had to lift their arm that high, that it is impossible to hide their heads

As I said during my introduction: That was by design. You were not supposed to look at them :) The four-legged creatures (tigers and dragons) forced us to lower the edge of the stage so that sometimes you'd see the scalp of a puppeteer. That was the only way we could make the tigers walk with their paws on the "ground", instead of appearing halfway hidden behind the edge of the stage like the anthro puppets.

It's something we realized when it was already to late ... we will probably not use four-legged puppets in any future shows. It was an experiment, and we learned from it.

Quote
Next thing:
The scene with the regaining memory didn´t worked out (for me)
Cause of 2 points
1. the backdroppaintings with the fluorescent colours were seen on screen all the time like "wet spots"  (there was always a heart shown on the screen :P)
2. the colours didn´t worked well even as the blacklight was on

Yes, you  are right. There was an error in the light programming. The scene lighting did not work out as planned. The scene was supposed to start out in monochrome blue (in which the UV paint would have been invisible), then the UV light was supposed to turn on revealing the symbols, then the rush of moving white light into the audience when they touch, and then the sun was supposed to slowly come up during the music. A glitch in the programming of the light desk caused the white backdrop lights to be on from the start, ruining the effect. We screwed this one up. Sorry. Shit happens. It annoyed me quite a bit, as it took quite some of the emotional impact away that this scene was supposed to have. But oh well. This stuff is insanely complex. With no off-site technical rehearsal, stuff like this is always pretty much hit-or-miss.

Quote
a possible way to avoid that (even if it is complicate):
Get a stagehand with hand-microphone
and at the one moment the char has to yell, shut down the headset of this person and place the hand-micro in about 1 meter distance to the yelling person

Thanks for trying to be constructive, I appreciate this. I'll leave it at saying: It's not as simple as you think it is :)

Quote
you did a great job with the PPS and I enjoyed it
and as long as it´s imposible to please all of your audience, it´s great to see, that you still try it year after year after year
thank you for that

You're very welcome! And thanks for your feedback.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Keidran on 23.08.2011, 16:06:58
When you talk about shortening the building times between scenes why not make them longer?
If you make the intermission videos longer you could have a bit more time to build the stages and catch a breath.
So the viewer doesn't have to wait for actual content to happen and the team has a bit more time.
I know that this would probably lead to the fact that some people could think that the show focuses on the Intermission.
But I think it'd be better that way than waiting after the video is over and then nothing happens for several minutes.

btw I loved that Call of Duty parody with the town map xD
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: lynard on 23.08.2011, 18:18:14
When you talk about shortening the building times between scenes why not make them longer?

It took quite a while to create all those videos (they are preproduced). And as mentioned before we could test the complete setup on Wednesday night. You simply cannot change the videos onsite again ;)
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Keidran on 23.08.2011, 18:21:06
When you talk about shortening the building times between scenes why not make them longer?

It took quite a while to create all those videos (they are preproduced). And as mentioned before we could test the complete setup on Wednesday night. You simply cannot change the videos onsite again ;)

Yah this years PPS was very rushed I know that x3 It was more like a suggestion for next year.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: lynard on 23.08.2011, 18:36:04
Yah this years PPS was very rushed I know that x3 It was more like a suggestion for next year.

Don't worry, reading through all those feedback helps improving (hopefully)  ;D
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Dhary Montecore on 23.08.2011, 18:41:10
After thinking VERY hard about something I didn't like about the show I actually found two things!! Oh, the show was sooo bad because of those two things!!

First: There was no ending-song! Up to EF 15 the ending songs were just great and it was so beautiful to listen to them during the year! I want those great endings back!

Second (Please ignore this critique, because I'm just to sensitive here): Violence. This year was good in that regard, not too much, but I really disliked the unnecessary violence in the show of EF 15.

So, bad bad show! ;3


Now seriously: Even without a epic theme-song this show rocked so hard! And thank you a thousand times, that you didn't kill any of the main characters. That made the show perfect for me. :3
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Elfasi on 23.08.2011, 19:10:33
Well, I think I will add my feedback to the mix.  Let me start by saying I very nearly skipped going to the pawpet show this year.  My first Eurofurence was EF14, and I missed the pawpet show due to being ill.  I've regretted that many times since, and tried to make up for it by going to the pawpet show at EF15 and EF16.  The new Maritim hotel certainly makes the experience of attending the pawpet show a much more pleasant one, with perfect views and no real seating problems.

But, and I say this with the greatest respect to the Pawpet show team, some of whom are my personal friends...  I'd nearly had enough.  I'd nearly given up on seeing it one more time this year.  The biggest problem the Pawpet show seems to have, is how long it lasts.  Last year felt like the final straw at over 5 hours, together with starting delays.  Time at a furry convention, especially Eurofurence, is incredibly precious.  Time to meet all the wonderful people I only see once a year, time to see the incredibly talented events and panels people put on.  But 5 prime time hours, an entire evening gone, was just too much taken away from the precious time I want for everything else and everyone else.

This year it feels like that problem was finally reigned in a little.  After the delay, by my count, the show lasted around 3 hours.  This still feels a little long, but far far less burdensome.  I don't feel such an awful conflict between wanting to see the pawpet show, and not wanting to lose out on so much time with my friends.  The delay starting the show was shorter, the delay between scenes was shorter, the overall show was shorter.  Bravo and keep it up!

Now onto what I found awesome about the show, and how it compares to previous years.

I could list the niggles and problems I had, but honestly, it's nothing that hasn't already been said, and nothing that big.  Bottom line, the pawpet show pulled back from the brink for me this year, way more enjoyable than it's been for me in the past, and I'm really excited to see what future innovations you guys come up with.  Thank you all for the amazing work you seem to put in all year, all for my entertainment. :)
Title: You can do better!
Post by: skyhoof on 23.08.2011, 20:51:27
In my opinion, the EF17 PPS was great, from a technical view. (Disregarding that the pawpeteers were visible a lot, but this was well commented before this posting)
You had gread ideas how to do some special-effects like animating the elevator, that was really great!

But this year the storywriting was awful!
Sorry, i realy dislike to use such hard words, but this PPS was the first one, that bored me.
I was realy pissed after the show, thinking about the fact that the PPS allways has been one reason why i stated EF allways as the best con i've seen.
This year, PPS sucked that mutch, i felt really unhappy for the rest of the evening.

I've seen PPS of EF 7, 8, 14, 15, 16 and now 17.
Until EF16 the PPS had a verry good balance between emotions and humor.
In this years PPS i missed both.

I remember a lot of funny scenes in the PPS mentioned above. Even from the PPS 10 Years ago ...
Hell, i loughed until it hurts at EF8 when the cristalball told "the ghost you've called is temporary not avalible"
And i cryed nearly until an half hour after the show when poke had to leave his love in "Dreamcatchers" at EF14.

But for this year, it's hard to me to remember a really funny part, and the show was just 3 days ago.
The funnyest parts of this years PPS were the szene in the house of the rat (l allready forgott his name), the screen telling "this video isn't avalible outside of china" and whenn Null said "Hello World - I allways wanted to say that" ... They made me giggle a bit.
This is not enough by far.
Not one szene touched my heart, and large parts of the storry were forseeable.

The show even had not a lot to do with this EFs topic "Kung Fur Hussle".
Well okay, the storry took place in HongKong, and we've seen one kick ... but where was the real action?

I don't tell you this to say something like "you sucked".
I tell you this to help, making such mistakes not again, next year.
Please focus more on storrywriting next year!
Cheetah and Eisfuchs, you're verry talented in that. You've proven this a lot in the years before.
What PPS needs is more drama and a lot more humor.
You've done that really awesome in the past, and i'm shure you can do it again.
Just hear what people disliked this year.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: ysegrim on 23.08.2011, 22:59:40
I really, really liked the new puppets, esp. the large ones. Even for this being the first time you play these puppets, many scenes (the big leap during the fight, the dragon nailing down the tigress, etc) were absolutely impressive, and I can't wait to see what you will do with these puppets with another full year of experience! Please don't abandon the concept. By the way, it was also great to finally see a reasonable size difference between a tiger and a rat ...

Null and Void were adorable (even though the style of their puppets did not match in some way ...). The Null Box: absolutly great.


Regarding the story: It took me quite some time to get into it -- without any known characters, the PPS did not feel that much like "coming home" as in previous years. Also, I really liked the "one-gag-a-minute" openings in the last couple of shows, despite their serious story -- I kind of missed it in this show. Also, both the scene where Void got his memory back, and Null's monologue at the end drifted a tiny bit towards pathos.

This being said: it was just awesome to watch this year's show again, and it felt good to be a tiny, tiny cog in the wheel while still being able to enjoy every second of the show. Thanks!
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Fineas on 23.08.2011, 23:40:14
Wow... after reading all that I almost feel ashamed to say anything bad at all.

For starters. I really liked this years Pawpet show. My favorite is EF 15, because it felt like a couple of stories in one. The theme spoke to me, the first time I saw the main cast and I just love Mika. Really skipped heartbeats when she got shot, and even more when I thought she wouldn't survive.

I'm going to try not to repeat any one else, so apart from some small things that are unavoidable and a couple that have gone wrong because of the incredible short rehearsal time. I really loved the show. A completely new cast build just for this show, awesome characters (the daughter lost some credit with me by being so incredibly stubborn and devastatingly rude) so the transition to hurt, sweet and loving felt a bit to sudden. Still, it was a clever scene, really heart touching. And I hear people complaining about the heads they saw all the time, but I don't hear people saying how AWSOME those quadruple animals looked. The moves they could do with walking, jumping etc just looked amazing.

As far for storytelling goes, I feel you couldn't have changed anything without compromising in other departments. If their was more humor the message wouldn't have come over. If their was less aggression, the conflict wouldn't have worked.

I have 1 comment that bothered me for the storytelling part.
The dragon at the end scene was on the run for days, taken captive, tortured and then taken under automated fire. Still he was able to easily over throw his wife and didn't looked hurt at all. Sorry, but it feels a bit Dues Ex Machinae. If he would have been weazing or just dropped his hurt body over her it would have felt more appropriate. (But maybe that would have been impossible seeying they where both operated by 3 people and you where already pretty close together, so I see why you might not have been able too)

And I have a question.
- The shopkeeper that fixed the telephone made a joke at the end of the scene, so everyone was laughing. But, I thought I heard a shot. So... did he get shot?

That's all. All criticism aside, I sat through the whole show only left the second pauze for a beer. I didn't want a miss a second. And it has been worth it. I respect the medium and understand it's limitations. You are masters in your own right bringing us yet again with an amazing story, backdrops, puppets, video, props and music that you produced just for this years convention. I find it incredible. Thank you yet again for a wonderful experience.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Fairlight on 24.08.2011, 00:58:04
Yes, the poor shopkeeper got shot... The sound effects for it played after lights out, tho.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Riffuchs on 24.08.2011, 02:19:28
This pawpetshow I liked a lot. The 'new characters"' did fit nicely into the story. It had both universal and some theme specific humor in it (like "Hello World" and "There's more than one way to do it"). The plotline was foreseeable now and then but it was fun to watch what ways it would go to end up like suspected. And, most important, it didn't felt like another episode where character interaction and jokes may also be forseeable.

It was fun to watch how so many different elements (the story taking place on stage, the predited video material, prerecordes samples and so on) fall into place so smoothly.

The scene that I will never forget was the one where the shop keeper got shot while the sceen had already ended "on stage". He was just a poor guy that had no part in the big scheme but was just unfortunate to meet the wrong people at the wrong time and the way he died portrayed how unimportant one can be. He was just a sidekick char and died just like that, he has just some minutes on stage and thefore killing him was for the 'bad guys' as easy as he was unimportant.

I took me the whole next scene to process the thoughs it stired until I could keep track of the show again.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: CleanerWolf on 24.08.2011, 02:25:20
I liked the Pawpet Show. At first I was wondering about the absence of the well known main characters, but then I understood, why the PPS team was trying something new and it was refreshing.

My favorite character was Null the white rabbit. It was very noticable how much fun Eisfuchs had, bringing him to live. I also liked the other characters of course. In the last years there was a tendency to bring more and more custom build puppets into the show and this year, the PPS team raised that kind of art to a new level. My jaw dropped when I noticed, that the four-legged characters were able to close their eye lids. So many details, so many love and effort were put into those puppets. I was really impressed.

My favorite scene was the "Flynn's" nightclub scene. "You broke the sim!"  ;D
Some people already complained about the absence of any ending song. I would have liked a more "epic" ending too, it was a bit weak compared to previous shows, but Null's monologue compensated it somehow, because I really liked the message he had to tell.    

The story delivered a good balance of humor and drama. Maybe it was a little bit too technical for some people in some moments with all the h4x0rs tricks.

Overall it was a very entertaining show and I enjoyed it.

Oh... and always remember: "The sky is the limit !"  :)
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Cheetah on 24.08.2011, 15:02:22
Wow... after reading all that I almost feel ashamed to say anything bad at all.

Naah, that's fine. So far most criticism has been on a pretty sophisticated level ... really, if what people are criticising here for the most part is really the only things they can think of, I think we're getting away pretty well this year :) And we know it's impossible to appeal to everyone.

Quote
And I hear people complaining about the heads they saw all the time, but I don't hear people saying how AWSOME those quadruple animals looked. The moves they could do with walking, jumping etc just looked amazing.

Thank you! We were a little bit amazed how versatile they turned out to be. When we tried them out for the first time, we were very worried if we would be able to play them convincingly, and believe me ... we're our own biggest critics in that regard :) And we had some serious issues to overcome with proportions, height, and the body sized of our actors! Pan had to wear 10cm high platform boots, and Yun (the golden tiger) had to be retrofitted with reinforced rubber bands in her back so she could hold her head high all the time. And coordinating three people to move four paws, head/jaw/eyes/tail and moving the body at the same time was quite a challenge too. Especially furing the fighting/running/jumping. People got themselves quite a few bruises and scratches during the rehearsals.

(I don't think that anyone has ever tried playing a quadruped puppet from below yet. I've seen it done "black screen" style with puppeteers playing the puppets on the ground, or as marionettes ... but not handpuppet-style from below)

The more am I happy to read that people liked how they moved :)

Quote
I have 1 comment that bothered me for the storytelling part.
The dragon at the end scene was on the run for days, taken captive, tortured and then taken under automated fire. Still he was able to easily over throw his wife and didn't looked hurt at all. Sorry, but it feels a bit Dues Ex Machinae.

Yeah, I admit, making the dragon virtually indistructable was a bit too obviously a plot device. There are a lot of directions in the script to hint at how hurt he actually is, but then ... I guess it didn't quite come across in the end.

Just for fun, I'll give you a little glimpse into the writing process that lead to this situation:

You can't imagine how many times the ending scene has been re-written to make it work somehow :) Originally we were planning to have a real played-out ending, with everyone escaping from the roof before Jiao-Chan even arrives. Cai-Lung was supposed to fly away from the rooftop, taking Cornelius and Yun with him. Then Jiao-Chan was supposed to have the final dialogue with Null, and then Null would take over control and the story would be over.

Later in the production, when the puppets were being built, we realized that Cai-Lung carrying other puppets and flying away was impossible to play. So our "heroes" had to stay on the roof and face Jiao-Chan - which is problematic, because she's got like, a private army behind her. So we re-wrote the story into what it finally turned out to be: Jiao Chan lost her support from the government because she disobeyed the orders of her superiours and decided to go after Cai-Lung herself. So in the end, she shows up on the roof alone. But how do you take down a tigress with a gun without shooting her first? So we came up with Cai-Lung just taking the hits and then basically just dominating Jiao-Chan ... and that was the ending that you got to see.

(By the way, some bits of the original ending are still in there. Like, Cornelius asking "You're a dragon. You can fly, right?". You can spot more if you listen closely :) )

Quote
- The shopkeeper that fixed the telephone made a joke at the end of the scene, so everyone was laughing. But, I thought I heard a shot. So... did he get shot?

Yes. And I was a bit surprised that people laughed! It was totally not meant to be funny. It was supposed to be tragic! The man's a hero, and he probably knew a lot more about what was going on than he admitted. He was a very close friend of Null.

Quote
That's all. All criticism aside, I sat through the whole show only left the second pauze for a beer. I didn't want a miss a second. And it has been worth it. I respect the medium and understand it's limitations. You are masters in your own right bringing us yet again with an amazing story, backdrops, puppets, video, props and music that you produced just for this years convention. I find it incredible. Thank you yet again for a wonderful experience.

You're more than welcome. I'm happy we were able to give you a great time. That's what we're here for after all :)
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Thygrrr on 24.08.2011, 15:22:47
We (at least I) were laughing because the shopkeeper was so badass and cool about sacrificing himself.

It was the kind of laugh you get when you see something really crass.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Druon on 24.08.2011, 15:31:30
I guess to some extend the audience didn't believe the henchman to be actually that tough. Before the shopkeeper incident we mostly saw them as cuddly, ebil, little animals, always missing everything with their oversized plastic guns. And getting yelled at by their bossy tigress a lot. They seemd to be the typical parody villain henchmen.

So having them actually kill someone in that fashion was a bit of a shocker and people didn't already see it coming.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Fineas on 24.08.2011, 17:24:58

- The shopkeeper that fixed the telephone made a joke at the end of the scene, so everyone was laughing. But, I thought I heard a shot. So... did he get shot?

Yes. And I was a bit surprised that people laughed! It was totally not meant to be funny. It was supposed to be tragic! The man's a hero, and he probably knew a lot more about what was going on than he admitted. He was a very close friend of Null.

We (at least I) were laughing because the shopkeeper was so badass and cool about sacrificing himself.

It was the kind of laugh you get when you see something really crass.

For me it really felt in between. I laughed at first. Then realized, damn this guy is putting his life on the line, why am I laughing? And then I heard the shot, but wasn't sure if it was one. So I felt aggravated, confused and relieved at the same time.

I think it has to do with timing.
The gun fight, escape and the foes entering the shop where hero just goes static saying like an every day "This is ... electronics, how can I help you."
Maybe if a second or 3 would have passed some suspense would have been created that would breathed that tension and drama you wanted. Everyone probably felt surprised, aggravated by the fight and relieved by the escape to realize another drama finished that scene.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Cheetah on 24.08.2011, 17:25:25
Yeah, druon, I think you have a point. I've never looked at it that way.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Ziggy_wolf on 24.08.2011, 18:24:17
I was actually expecting a goofy muppet like show, and wasn't expecting anything near the degree of profesionalism I saw at the show. The story was really well written, the characters beleivable and overall way better than what I was expecting.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Rua Whitepaw on 24.08.2011, 18:26:32
That was what I first expected as well when I went to EF 13. I only knew the funday pawpet show so I was expecting a comedy show. But now I look forward to the pawpet show every time. It's so amazing what they do...
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Skie on 24.08.2011, 18:39:16
The show was pretty good, like always.
I don't have much to say about the new changes (i.e. the quads), I'm mostly neutral about them.

It's pretty hard for me to judge those shows, as for me nothing can seem to beat Dreamcatchers.
People really have different opinions as well. I didn't like the EF15 one too much, but really did like EF16 one (snake NOM scene was epic).

One strong new point I'd like to point out is the good use of videos in the intermissions and null's box. That was pretty good and we should see more of the same :)

Thanks you again for putting you time and effort in brining us an amazing show, and there's really only one question left to ask...

When will we see a Dreamcatchers DVD available? :P


Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: ysegrim on 25.08.2011, 00:10:37
We (at least I) were laughing because the shopkeeper was so badass and cool about sacrificing himself.

Besides, the laughter started before the shot could be heard (actually, at the last line from the shop keeper), so people at first did not expect (and later, most probably won't have heard) the shot. Esp. as the stage was dark already when it happened.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Zefiro on 25.08.2011, 00:56:58
It was never explicitely stated in the script that he's shot-dead - just the usual "bad guys shoot and miss" at first and then the final sound fx after the lights-out-cue. I personally like to think he survived.

From reading the feedback I get it that it's contradicting request from different sides, some wanting more depth and meaning, others more light-hearted fun and no message. I've got a personal opinion on this, too, but I leave it to our director and script writers to try the balance act to make as much of our audience happy as they can. And for those who dislike some aspects, I hope they could at least enjoy the other parts of the show :)


As for the video intermissions, we're trying to get as much acting live on stage and use pre-recorded audio only when absolutely necessary (not having enough microphones for minor characters is our usual reason). Shifting time played to video aka pre-recordings wouldn't be the same as performing on stage, and ultimately we do not want to create a pawpet-show-movie, but a live show. Also, creating the videos was a lot of effort, and then still some say that they are too short as they don't bridge the full pause. I'm sorry, but for me this would be a reason to go back to audio-only again.


As for the amount of props, indeed it appears that we had not so many and perhaps less sophisticated props this year. We still had quite an amount of props, though most of them weren't those which are on the playrail anymore, but hold / shown by the puppets, e.g. the usb-stick, id-card, pizza boxes, big red buttons, weapons, VR-helmets, sparkling cable, cellphone, stuff in the storage chamber near the security gate, etc.

We nearly doubled our nominal man-power this year, drawing in help from whereever we could and whoever was willing to lend a paw. We had quite some special effects and big stuff to build: five custom and big characters which needed special mechanics (the dragon even electrics) to work, new technical challanges like slanted panels (which are not that easy and also one of the reasons for longer scene breaks), and the whole "Null Box" i.e. a small second stage where Null was played live and which we build from ground up, backdrop and electronics and video. Add to that the usual SFX gimmicks like flickering lanterns from above, the sparkling cable from Null or the magical glow in Voids paws when his memory kicks back in and you might see why we indeed need a full column of conbook-credits-listing and still couldn't build the previous amount of "standard boring props" :)


I personally are VERY HAPPY with this years show, both with the script and our final performance, and I'd like to really THANK YOU for being such a great audience.

*purrrr*
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Ragear on 25.08.2011, 03:08:55
Hi everybody,

I'd like to chip in my opinion, too, though most has been said already, but...
This was my first EF, my furst pawpetshow, so I can't compare it to something else. I had no idea what it was about (yeah, pawpets, what can you do with them but make some children cheer, great deal), what was about to come my way, someone mentioned everybody cried 2 years ago, no way bugger.

Fellows, THIS WAS THE MOST F***G AWESOME THING that ever caught me by surprise. Period. My arse may have gotten heavy over the time, but this was way beyond worthwile. I wont get into nitty details, but thank you for enriching my life with this show, this was breathtaking. I'm still fighting back emotions while typing this. I even didn't get all the references and cameos! Null's statement at the end may have been written by either M. Gandhi or M. L. King alike, but no less true. And standing ovations is something I haven't seen for a very long time. Pray do carry on with this. I just hope I don't get too jaded to appreciate all this heart, all this work, all this attention going into this work of art.

Thank you for listening to me and good night

Ragear
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: ANTIcarrot on 25.08.2011, 12:30:22
In spite of their denials, I would say the creators behind LSD & DOPE are consummate professionals. They just don't get paid. :)

I've been to professional puppet shows, including all the shows since EF ni... EF ten. In the non-EF shows you see hands and heads a lot. That's simply what happens when the operators are using something more complex than a sock-puppet. It's a sign of professionalism in my opinion that they even try, not a flaw.

The special effects were amazing this year, and got pretty damn close to the Dreamcatcher level. EF14 wasn't the first time you went all out on the special effects, but it was the irst time you really went off the deap end. It's hard to do a first time a second time, but you've given me renewed confidence that you will one day top it. I also like the way they were spread throughout the show, rather than concentrated at the end. (And not being heavily signposted, sorry, as they kinda were last year.) Especially 'casual' things like the elevator sequence. Not quite that the best effects are the ones you don't notice, but rather the best are the ones that make perfect sense in the context of the story, and enforce suspension of disbelief, rather than damage it.

I also really like the wobbly sets, as they somewhat reminded  me of the old days of Doctor Who. :)

The new characters introduced welcome diversity. (Though I do wonder what a 'macro' Mika puppet would look like...?) I was wondering through then opening act how exactly you were going to shoehorn them into this plot, and while i'm rather glad they didn't play a larger part, you found the absolutely perfect way.

The only thing I would find questionable (not bad, just questionable) this year was a couple of small aspects of the plot. I believe there was a couple of lines about killing people via their ID implants, and hacking everything down to light switches. Unless I misheard that, even with null being more than a little crazy - erm, seriously? And while I appreciate the content of the epiloge (we're currently having some related troubles in the UK) in practice I strongly suspect that the NSA, GCHQ, BND/MAD, Lolsec, several other large sections of the chinese government, and many others would quickly and effectively, but quietly, break the system before or just after it went live. And the only reason it stood out was because you got so much else of the hacking/security business correct. Simplified, but largely correct.

Oh yes, and the other bad thing about this year: There probably won't be a DVD of it. Again. :(
However...
Given that Eurofurence eV was involved in some way with Bitter Lake, could you possibly borrow their DVD making expereience for next year's show? Even if you can't do a whole show, you could do a making of, or a blooper real of some kind. Or an interview with the 'actors'? (Hi! My name is [SECRET], and I play Tani, who is the puppet operator for the actress Felicity Uncia, who plays Mica in this year's show [Fill In Blank]. Hang on, this is a real show isn't it? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole_X-Treme!) I am getting paid for this...?) You built LSD and DOPE one piece at a time. You can do the DVD the same way.

So, great show, great characters, great effects, great story, and professional presentation. Speaking of which, you currently run a press conference. Even think of inviting along a theater critic, just for fun? Might be interesting to see what they thought...
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Cheetah on 25.08.2011, 13:39:10
Hi!

First of all thanks for this very positive review! Also thanks about the ideas doing some extra scenes with the characters for a possible DVD release ... funny thing is, Kyron suggested very similar thing just yesterday in the internal staff forum :) I think a lot what you've written goes without comment ... I'm glad to hear you liked our show, and of course getting that kind of positive feedback is what really makes it worth all the pain it took to make it happen. So thanks again!

Still, as one of the writers of this show, I'd like to comment a bit on the points of the plot you've raised. Not so much as to contradict what you're saying, but maybe to give a little insight into where we were coming from when writing this.

The only thing I would find questionable (not bad, just questionable) this year was a couple of small aspects of the plot. I believe there was a couple of lines about killing people via their ID implants, and hacking everything down to light switches. Unless I misheard that, even with null being more than a little crazy - erm, seriously? And while I appreciate the content of the epiloge (we're currently having some related troubles in the UK) in practice I strongly suspect that the NSA, GCHQ, BND/MAD, Lolsec, several other large sections of the chinese government, and many others would quickly and effectively, but quietly, break the system before or just after it went live. And the only reason it stood out was because you got so much else of the hacking/security business correct. Simplified, but largely correct.

Well, you are of course right. The whole government setup thing is terribly simplified on purpose. We wanted to give it a little bit of realism, as a nod to the army of IT geeks we have in the audience out there, and because it ties in neatly with the current political situation in the world. But on the other hand, we really had to keep the situation simple. So we chose a situation you might find in a superhero comic book rather than a 100% realistic setup - that allows for a lot more freedom in the story, and is much easier to understand. And I have also to admit: There's only so much I know about china and it's government. So we'd rather make something up - and conveniently ignore anything that's outside our little story universe. If this had been a real occurence, it would have played on the stage of world politics. And the government surely wouldn't have been so stupid to bet everything on Jiao Chan - for 12 years. But that's the thing in fantastic stories: Heros are lucky, and villains are idiots. And animals can talk.

About hacking the homes and light switches ... that is really only slightly extrapolated. Look back 20 years ago: Computers had 512 kilobytes of RAM, ran at 7 Mhz, and ISDN was considered "broadband", and mobile computing was in the realm of "Star Trek". If you look at it that way, you could even say the world of "the year of the rat" is not nearly fantastic enough! :)

Hacking lightswitches? You can do that even today. In the building I work at every day, all light switches and doors ARE in fact connected to one central server. And I'm pretty darn sure you could hook it up to the internet to do remote maintenance on it. For heaven's sake, when we moved in here, we had issues with our doorbell needing to be rebooted every few days. There's an remote management module available for our goddamn coffee maker ... which, notably, has made the news because it was instantly hacked (http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9970757-7.html). The toilet flushers in this building are also electric - and everyone is talking about "smart metering" of water and electricity that involves a direct network connection between your plumbing and the utilities ... really, it's not that far off.

The lethal ID chips are probably unrealistic ... they are a leftover from an older version of the story that we scrapped rather early in the progress, but for some reason we forgot to take it out of that piece of dialogue between Yun and Cornelius :) The idea was inspired a bit by "escape from new york" and a bit by "the fortress" I guess ... interesting that it caught your attention.

And of course, there's no way to predict how hacker culture will look like 20 years from now. Null is certainly absolutely anachronistic, I'm sure :)
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Bostitch on 25.08.2011, 15:49:14
It's something we realized when it was already to late ... we will probably not use four-legged puppets in any future shows. It was an experiment, and we learned from it.

Very sorry to hear this, I really loved the quadrupeds. Only ever noticed the actor's heads one or two times in the beginning, the show was so engrossing. And seeing in the making-of clips how ingeniously they were built, makes me love them even more.

Yes. And I was a bit surprised that people laughed! It was totally not meant to be funny. It was supposed to be tragic! The man's a hero, and he probably knew a lot more about what was going on than he admitted. He was a very close friend of Null.

Well up till that point the henchmen did seem endearingly incompetent, and people started laughing before they heard the shot, is my guess (and those who did not stop did not hear the shot). I think the gunshot after a fade to black would have worked very well if this had been a TV or even film production, but with a live audience, who are eager to applaud anyway, I think it is always likely you lose the impact you had intended.

To the people who miss the original characters: I can understand how you feel, but there is also a big advantage: It makes the PPS much more accessible to new(er) congoers, who haven't been to every con since the start, and have no clue about all the in-jokes.
(Or: time for a DVD, hint, hint.) ;)

Overall, there is barely anything negative to say about the show. Sure, I noticed people dropping a line maybe 2 times, but with only 4 rehearsals in all, that is miraculously low. The long wait in between scene changes was the only real downside for me, as I was already pretty exhausted by Saturday evening, and sitting in silence, in the dark, it's a real battle not to nod off during those intervals.  Is this something that can be solved by having more volunteers as stagehands?

Overall, an awesome production, keep up the great work (with quadrupeds!)  :)
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Runo on 25.08.2011, 16:16:47
Is this something that can be solved by having more volunteers as stagehands?

Maybe it would've been a little better with more stage hands, BUT it was already SO crowded behind the stage that it wouldn't have helped much. Quite possibly we would just have all stumbled and fallen over each other…
_______________

Btw, the reason why you saw our heads (tiger pawpeteers) was that crouching down became almost impossible, because we were 3 people in a row on less than 1m of space (and still had to walk and run), some scenes were just too long to be able to take that additional strain, and we already had to hold the 3-4kg puppets by an outstreched arm. Standing up meant you could at least rest your elbow on your chest sometimes ;) and only it made playing the hind legs possible sometimes (because of the angle).
These reasons – unfortunately – will mean that for the future, pawpets like this might maybe stay as an effect, if required, but not as main cast, just like Cheetah said. It's just too much of a hassle for too little a gain. Even tho it was still tremendous fun building and playing them ;)
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Zefiro on 25.08.2011, 16:19:40
Is this something that can be solved by having more volunteers as stagehands?
We already greatly increased our team size, so it's now as crowded behind the playrail as we were used to it :)

Adding more people at this point would not help, as delays are due to things which cannot be parallelized even more. We need to remove everything on the stage - everyone takes what he has and a bit more, then also the props and second playrail things. We need to change the backdrops, for which the stage needs to be clear to have enough room. That's already quite efficient, with the panels pre-sorted and dedicated runners here. The slanted panels did need quite some more time, though. Then all frontprops need to be placed while in parallel the puppeteers get ready with their puppets and props. In some scenes we switch microphones, which need to be double-checked. Every prop and special effect needed for the scene needs to be placed at the right place. Finally, we call the tech guys "Stage ready" - usually they're ready at this time as well, sometimes they need a bit more time for scene changes themselves.

We always try to improve our scene-change times and are working hard on this. And I also noticed that it took longer this time than in previous years. Though it was all busy and rushed backstage. I don't have a good (i.e. working) idea how to speed it up even more, even with more people, except for drastically reducing the actual stuff we move back there. Which would be a loss for the scenes.

*purrrr*
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: lynard on 25.08.2011, 22:01:39

To the people who miss the original characters: I can understand how you feel, but there is also a big advantage: It makes the PPS much more accessible to new(er) congoers, who haven't been to every con since the start, and have no clue about all the in-jokes.
(Or: time for a DVD, hint, hint.) ;)


I think i should write a few words about our old characters as it seems their absence trigger a lot of different discussions and emotional feelings.

We started the PPS at EF6 as an experiment with the goal to entertain a handful of people - 20 to 50 is the amount of visitors the PPS at FC gets. We hoped to attract about that amount and ended up with a room overcrowded by nearly all attendees of that convention (around 170 or so during that time if i remember right). We decided to turn the show into a more storytelling version than rather just playing some jokes and skits. For that first three then (starting with EF9) four Maincharacters came to life (Lori, Mika, Poke and Lionel). Counting the numbers of shows we have done since the characters eveloped, have grown in their characteristics and social connections with others but also inbetween.

The Decision to drop the characters was not a leightweighted one but a very very emotional and long discussed thing. We noticed that the maincharacters where only used for starting a story and as some fillers - the ongoing process of the told story was done by other (non-main) characters. Lately we also noticed that there was no real developement going on with the maincharacters anymore pushing them more and more into a corner. Imagine playing the same character again and again for more than 10 years! For me as a puppet player it gets really boring doing the same role year by year (not that i don't enjoy playing Lionel, but still). So we decided to use this approach to bring some fresh life into the show (and we honored our old characters with the small cameo appearance) which will give us new opportunities by playing new characters, but also will open new doors to other (yet untold) stories.

Please keep this in mind, Lori, Mika, Poke and Lionel are and always will be our first heroes and without them the Pawpetshow wouldn't be where it is today.

Lynard (Lionel / Cornelius and many others)
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Ghostbear on 25.08.2011, 22:22:23
It was my first Pawpet show, I have no connection to the old characters, so maybe it was easier for me, than for somebody who loved the old characters.

Yes there were some rough spots and that you could see the puppeteers quite often bugged me a little bit in the beginning, but it didn't take me long to completly immerse into the setting and the story.
After only a few minutes Null, Void and all the others were so ... lifelike (and I liked the four legged ones, too). And I liked the setting (cyberpunk is one of my favorite) so that really helped as well. Opposite to some other people especially _because_ of the darker, gloomy setting.
Good work on those video clips too. They not only helped to shorten the time between the scenes and the necessary conversion of the set but it was cool to see the interaction between the characters on the stage and Null in his little booth.

Concerning the scene with the shopkeeper. It's was kinda funny when he acted all "innocent", so I think it's okay that people laughed. But yes, I heard the shot when the scene was fading to black and I was like "ouch". It was kinda tragic but due to the cheering and laughing of the audience a good deal of people might have missed it in the first place. Like somebody said before, it would have worked great on TV but with a live audience things like that can happen.

Overall it has been a phantastic show and I enjoyed it very much. Can't wait for next year's PPS. ^.^
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: CleanerWolf on 26.08.2011, 04:13:42
Some pictures I took after the show...

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: MartinRJ on 26.08.2011, 08:58:40
I think it was really very good done. There are some things which were annoying, though: I have seen many many plays in theatre when I was a child and teen.. at those times not everything was electrified like it is today, and so the intermissions were usually much longer than they are today. When you visit the opera today, you will notice, that set changes will happen without closing the curtains - and that doesn't even take helpers who run across the stage. Today we are used to set changes 'on-the-fly'. So ... what I'd like to say is: there were many many short breaks at the pawpet show, and they lasted very very long. I understand that, and I remember how that was the same at the big stages like theatres, opera-houses - like twenty years ago.

It would be wonderful if you could avoid that by using scenes/sets that can be used for more than only one scene, like nice backround-paintings on big walls or something.

You don't do us a favor with 5-minute-breaks after every scene. It's clear that it has technical reasons, but there are ways to avoid that, like asking some of the great artists to make a real nice background which can be used for more than only one short scene.

Besides that, the story was brilliant, I was very surprised, and I loved the puppets.

The voice actors were great too - only the voice of the younger tiger was a little too silent and shy imho.


Hope to see you all again on stage.

:3
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Zefiro on 26.08.2011, 10:04:53
You don't do us a favor with 5-minute-breaks after every scene. It's clear that it has technical reasons, but there are ways to avoid that, like asking some of the great artists to make a real nice background which can be used for more than only one short scene.
So, basically your advice is to not change the background at all? And your assumption that the changing of the background is everything we do during the setup times?

If not, could you please elaborate a bit about the "ways to avoid that", going into details about the specific things we're actually doing during those breaks and how we can improve here? I'm surely always willing to listen and learn. Preferably in a way which will still result in everyone being impressed by the variety and details of the show instead of playing with four characters, no props before the same static background for 90min.

*purrrrr*
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Cheetah on 26.08.2011, 19:21:47
Moderator Intervention: I'm sorry, but I felt this thread was about to derail heavily and end up in a fight of accusations, justifications and general smart-assery. I don't think it's a good idea to engage in lengthy discussions about how to "fix" things. We'll do that during the next pawpetshow staff meeting - in person, and in a relaxed atmosphere :) The split-off part of this thread has been archived for future reference - so what has been said there is not lost.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: yagfox on 27.08.2011, 00:10:40
Could you move the house lights next year? It was hard to see the intermission videos in the back half of the room:-

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/Yagfox/lights-1.jpg)

Ta! :)
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: ysegrim on 27.08.2011, 00:41:18
Personally, I also was a bit unhappy with the audience lights during PPS and also FSGS. Would it be possible to use the "official" lights, or at least something that blinds less?
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Jaryic on 27.08.2011, 02:55:25
Could you move the house lights next year? It was hard to see the intermission videos in the back half of the room:-
Ta! :)

Personally, I also was a bit unhappy with the audience lights during PPS and also FSGS. Would it be possible to use the "official" lights, or at least something that blinds less?

Realized it myself when it was too late.
Will change that for next year.

-Jar
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Keidran on 27.08.2011, 19:47:46
My mind gave me just an idea how to make even more work for the whole team ;D

What is your opinion on small feedback sheets to be handed out before the PPS and collected after wards like in Boxes or so.
I thought of really easy ones like
Story A-F
technique A-F
Waiting Time between the stage sets
etc pp.

I think that would make it a bit easier for feedback x3
*hides under a rock to not getting stoned for making "more-work-ideas"
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: BigBlueFox on 27.08.2011, 20:18:54
I don't think this makes a lot of sense.... After all, nobody can use grades like that. With something as complex as the pawpet show, what people really need is a more detailed, constructive feedback. For example, ranking a story as "D" doesn't help anyone because that doesn't tell you exactly why it was rated that way.

The best thing IMHO is for people to take a while, think about the show, and write down their thoughts in a forum like this. It's the most helpful thing to anyone involved. Handing out grades like that is kind of like saying "That sucked".
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Ator on 27.08.2011, 21:11:45
A Feedback is a Feedback, so I'll tell mine.

I only felt sleepy during the pauses between the scenes, yet I can understand this.
That is absolutely okay, everything should take time.

But the show itself was just BOOM! (ノ⊙ ▽ ⊙)ノ

Everybody did an awesome job, I can't imagine how hard it is to make an actual show like this out of simple idea!
I think the Pawpet show team gave into this one sooo much! ≧ ︿ ≦
As for me - this show has it's own soul, it's own undescribable atmosphere! ♪
Everything was perfect, even if there was a few mistakes, the whole awesomeness covered all of 'em.

My absolutely ultimate thanks - to all the voice actors.
They were doing a gorgeous work, I enjoyed it every second. They created a characters with voices, yet every single word was understandabe for everyone!

Not to mention everybody else, who did SUCH a huge job!

I can't say anything except for:

I love you guys! ♡
Thank you so much for making such a wonderful Pawpet shows year after year for us!
Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Kamuniak on 29.08.2011, 00:41:23
Shortly, I enjoyed the show just like last years.

As some sort of geek, I really liked all technical stuff. Like entering to virtual reality was one of my favourites with bar and lights appearing and music starting while "loading" :D (video (http://www.kamuniak.com/temp/ef17_pawpet_vr.divx.avi)) And small details like that train lights were out because computer thought that nobody was in there :)

So thanks to everyone who made this possible once again!
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Ralesk on 29.08.2011, 22:20:44
I'd like to chime in a little with my own issues with the PPS.  They don't make it any less awesome, but they're still mild annoyances.

One, and this I've noticed a few times in the past: sound.  Sometimes, the people are amplified a bit too much.  Sometimes, the background music is too loud and overcomes the already hard to understand speech.

Accents (and other pronunciation issues).  Yeah, I know it's not a nice thing to pick on (and I do know everyone has one, including myself), but sometimes it makes it really hard to understand what the characters are saying... even if I do have twenty-some years of English behind my back.  And some of the players slur their words too.  I believe it's hard, and I know it's the last thing you're paying attention to while you're concentrating on the puppet and the act and everything, but please articulate things just a tad better.



Others have mentioned before that it's always a love story lately.  I'm okay with that, but I'd certainly appreciate some variety too :)  Look at the common things the last years' PPS scripts had and think outside that box a bit.


And please, don't bite people giving feedback, we all want things to get just even better than they already are :)  Thanks for making the show happen every year, again and again.

Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Cheetah on 29.08.2011, 23:03:55
I hope people have noticed, that we've been working hard to improve our english writing! As for the english speaking ... well, we're all no native speakers. We're all trying to improve, we already choose roles for people based on their skills wherever possible, but I can hardly kick any volunteers out of the team because their english is not good enough. This is where we will never be like professionals. And it's good we're not.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: djem on 29.08.2011, 23:54:38
I actualy like the fact that during the show we hear different english accent, and even with my poor english skills, I really have no problem understanding everyone there. It's Eurofurence, it's europe after all, showing that the pawpet show team is made of people from different country is cool :)
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Rua Whitepaw on 30.08.2011, 01:21:00
Maybe you could display subtitles? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVCvthr95io
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Cheetah on 30.08.2011, 01:50:21
Maybe you could display subtitles? :)

You've got the job! :) I'll give you the script, when it gets finalized one week before the con, and you do the subtitling, okay?

(Finally someone I can make funny faces to, when actors switch around and skip their lines ... sofar, me, the sound effects guy, is the only one who gets totally confused when the cue lines I've been waiting for come early, late, in the wrong order or not at all - if you've ever wondered why so many sound effects are out of synch ... sometimes, actors can be pretty unpredictable :)
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Fairlight on 30.08.2011, 13:34:42
*appears, puts a pink bow on Cheetah's tail, and disappears again*

Unpredictable my ass ^.^
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Pinky on 30.08.2011, 21:34:47
*looks at pink bow* Oooh nice! May I have one too please? =^_^=
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: ANTIcarrot on 01.09.2011, 02:44:04
Thinking about the intetermission videos, at the moment you tend to play them soon after the curtain is closed, which leaves a long gap before the next scene. Did you considder starting the videos shortly before the stage is rebuilt, so you can open the curtains as the video finishes?

So Old Scene/Gap/Video/New Scene - as opposed to Old/Video/Gap/New.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Cheetah on 01.09.2011, 03:00:06
Thinking about the intetermission videos, at the moment you tend to play them soon after the curtain is closed, which leaves a long gap before the next scene. Did you considder starting the videos shortly before the stage is rebuilt, so you can open the curtains as the video finishes?

Yes, but that would make the intermissions longer, because I would have to wait for the setup of the scene to finish before playing them in order to know when the crew backstage is ready to open the curtain :) The way we do it now, I can play it during the scene setup - with the disadvantage of the gap you mentioned.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Keidran on 01.09.2011, 08:02:05
You've got the job! :) I'll give you the script, when it gets finalized one week before the con, and you do the subtitling, okay?

(Finally someone I can make funny faces to, when actors switch around and skip their lines ... sofar, me, the sound effects guy, is the only one who gets totally confused when the cue lines I've been waiting for come early, late, in the wrong order or not at all - if you've ever wondered why so many sound effects are out of synch ... sometimes, actors can be pretty unpredictable :)

How about direct-to-screen subtitles with a little Monkey sitting behind the curtain, typing the spoken words directly to subtitles xD
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Suran on 06.09.2011, 11:39:40
Length:
The length was very fine.
The breaks too.
Maybe write a word about number and length of the breaks into the description in the con-book. Then people who don't know the show can plan about drinks and restroom-visits. ;) Like "Two 10 minute breaks."

Stage:
I really liked the elevator.
Null's box was awesome!!! Great work!

Props:
I only noticed that there where bullets at all after watching the recording in detail.
The fire fight on the roof looked...strange. One side firing away and the other just standing there, not doing much.

Sound:
I guess a chinese accent would have been WAY too hard on any of the main characters.
Kazzador's suggestion about a stage-hand a bit away with a microphone for the yelling sounds like it could work to make it sound more like yelling and shouting.
Some minor things like people missing their cue, breathing into their microphone or getting their sentence wrong are probably unavoidable.
Do you do voice-rehersals with Skype or something without everyone having to be on site?
May be a way to get slightly more rehersal time without making the logistic nightmare any larger.
I agree with Dhary about the lack of an ending song.
"Yes, the poor shopkeeper got shot... The sound effects for it played after lights out, tho."
That didn't work out. When the lights go out, people start applauding and you can't hear anything at all for quite a while.
About not having enough and switching mics: I can provide an additional good headset-microphone (wired) if requested. I can bring it to one of the smaller events if someone wants to try it.

Story:
I guess everything has been said about dropping the old main characters.
I felt it a bit short of comic relief. Fairlight/Poke had just gotten so good at that in recent years.
The private army could have been made more like the dim "Yes my producer! of cause my producer!" goons.
Maybe let the shopkeeper show more fear. He was so calm that I thought he was replaced by another spy all along.

conclusion:
GREAT SHOW as always. :)
Darker, more political and less emotional then last time. More dramatic. New faces.
I like it! :)


Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Zefiro on 06.09.2011, 14:01:12
Maybe write a word about number and length of the breaks into the description in the con-book. Then people who don't know the show can plan about drinks and restroom-visits. ;) Like "Two 10 minute breaks."
Both overall length (counted in scenes) and act breaks (two breaks) are identical each year, and it's intended to be "one evening show". Although it's good to give furs a chance to visit the restrooms, everyone standing up and having to be re-seated again with more official breaks would ruin the runtime even more.

Null's box was awesome!!! Great work!
Thanks :)

I only noticed that there where bullets at all after watching the recording in detail.
The fire fight on the roof looked...strange. One side firing away and the other just standing there, not doing much.
We didn't have real bullets in earlier years, so though of it as something which would add to the experience, not rely on it. Though I did hope it would be at least somewhat noticeable.
The issue about the bad guys shooting like crazy but not hitting anyone is basic cartoon physic. Can't argue with physics, can you? ;)

Kazzador's suggestion about a stage-hand a bit away with a microphone for the yelling sounds like it could work to make it sound more like yelling and shouting.
We're severly lacking profi-grade equippment here, and one mic receiver failed dead on us in the minutes before the show started. Good we had one as a backup, but we're at full capacity here.
Additionally, there's so much going on backstage which a mic held a bit away would pick up that I don't think this is feasible in a live show.

Some minor things like people missing their cue, breathing into their microphone or getting their sentence wrong are probably unavoidable.
Indeed. We're sorry, the limitations of a live show. My own experience was that it went rather smooth this year, which less issues than the years before. Though I didn't watch the recordings (I don't have any), are adrenaline-rushed instead of watching closely in the armchair, and some things which were "wrong" according to the script you can't notice :)

Do you do voice-rehersals with Skype or something without everyone having to be on site?
No, we have only the four rehearsals in total. It's hard to make the dates work with everyone anyway, additional sessions would not work. Also we're rehearsing the complete show, not focussing solely on the voice acting part. I do agree that we could improve here, though I'm not sure who can improve how much (e.g. me personally, I'm just not good at English pronounciation, despite some additional training with Eisfuchs), and with so much energy already going into the show I'm afraid that this might not be the topmost priority.

About not having enough and switching mics: I can provide an additional good headset-microphone (wired) if requested. I can bring it to one of the smaller events if someone wants to try it.
I'm sure the Stage team would get in contact with you or others if such a need arise, however we really need wireless mics for the show, and those MUST work together and with the rest of the stage equipment AND be available on all rehearsals already, too.

GREAT SHOW as always. :)
I like it! :)
Thank you.

*purrrr*
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Suran on 06.09.2011, 20:03:27
I just noticed that in front of the temple Jao Chan held a piston to Voids head.
A much larger gun may have been a good idea to let the audience see this too.
With that, the dialog at that point makes much more sense.

Just some feedback to consider when planning next year's props.
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Jaryic on 08.09.2011, 15:51:04
It all comes down to the 80-20 rule and how production size and budget scale:

You would need 8 times the resources you spend to complete 80% of your project to finish the last 20%.
So there always will be space for some improvements though the resources time and money are limited and thereby setting the frame for the production.

And I think reaching 80%, sometimes even 85% or 90% with that tiny resources and an amateur team is a great achievement.

 
Title: Re: Opinion about this years pawpet show
Post by: Suran on 08.09.2011, 15:53:47
It is indeed.