The Eurofurence Forum

Eurofurence Information => Feedback => Topic started by: SouthPaw on 21.08.2011, 21:37:54

Title: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: SouthPaw on 21.08.2011, 21:37:54
First of all, thanks to the Hotel for taking the necessary measures to enable use of the fire escape stairs as a means of getting between floors this year.

However, this facility wasn't really publicised all that much, so there were still a LOT of attendees using the elevators just to go one or two floors (fursuiters excluded, as they do have good reason to use the elevators), to the detriment of those needing to go further.

Would it be possible to affix prominent notices to the doors next year (if the con's at the same Hotel, of course) and also near the elevators, to remind people that the stairs can be used to get between floors as well (the one exception being the stairs by the main stage, which have no access to the Conference Level)?

And also from the Ground Floor, there are stairs by the "Da Capo" Restaurant leading up to the Conference Level.

On a similar vein, could attendees please remember to give fursuiters priority when it comes to the elevators? They need to use them more than you do in most cases (unless your room happens to be on, say, the 3rd Floor or higher and you're going up from the Ground Floor). It's common courtesy to do so, and they'll thank you for it.

And finally, if you're going downstairs, even from the higher floors, why not use the stairs? You've got gravity assistance going down, after all. For the benefit of those who don't speak German, the numbered floors are the bedrooms, ZG is the Conference Level and EG is the Ground Floor.

Cheers,

Southie
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: Kuma on 22.08.2011, 12:59:42
I found most of the doors from the fire escape stairs to the hallways locked, especially at the back of the hotel; signs also indicated that you could only exit on ground floor level. I had to move a lot between fifth and sixth floor, so I preferred the stairs whenever possible, but they were not always accessible.

The biggest annoyance with the elevators imho were people pressing all floor buttons just for 'fun' or using 'escape codes' for bypassing the normal programming. I've seen several times that an elevator would halt at a specific floor without the doors opening, even when the call button was pressed. Even without all the messing around it could take a very long time just to get from ground level to the 6th floor, so I really would appreciate con-goers to be a bit more social in their elevator use next year.
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: krakendwaggin on 22.08.2011, 17:41:54
The biggest annoyance with the elevators imho were people pressing all floor buttons just for 'fun' or using 'escape codes' for bypassing the normal programming.

Yes, I was in a lift and someone was talking about if they pressed a button and another button it would go from your floor to your destination without stopping at the interim floors, I had to bite my tongue to prevent a outburst of rage, I really wanted to say "you selfish ****!"

Thankfully whilst within said lift he said it "sadly wasn't working anymore", too damn right!, shouldn't of been 'working' in the first place!

Now during the opening ceremonies they said all stairs had access to all levels, next time make sure that its indicated that its the ONE staircase you can go UP in, the rest you can only go DOWN in, going up to the fourth floor and then realising you can't get anywhere was a pain.

Whilst suiters get priority and I always make sure they do, there has to be a fine level between being kind and being treated as a sap, waiting to get a lift I remember that suiters would appear and then I'd let them in, so waiting abit more, MORE suiters appear and I let them get in first, when I decided to get on the next time the lift appeared I got a slight earfull of flak since the 'suiters go first', yes I know they do but when your trying to get to the 6th floor to see a friend there has to be a point where one can draw the line!

Last thing, there are stairs between 0 and C, near the entrance, plus most of the stairwells go to C level too, USE THEM, taking the lift from 0 to C is pointless and wastes time!.

Ahem, I'll stop now! ^_^
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: White_Dragon on 22.08.2011, 21:58:27
There was some problems with stairs, but as Southie point out. Use the F* stairs, it goes better down then up. and 2nd or 3rd floor are not so far.

If I remember correctly there 
- "front entry stairs" you need swipe your card key to get to rooms floor levels (2nd floor lock was broken)
- "stage stairs" all floor except Conference level
- "art gallery stairs  access only to Conference level and I believe 1st floor there was some door lock and I hear somebody nearly ( or actually lock himself) in try use the stair from upper floors.

Sorry if I cause any trouble to some of you by claiming elevator for equipment trolley, but was failing behind schedule and service elevator is in reception area. (too far) 
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: SouthPaw on 23.08.2011, 00:29:58
Having used all four sets of stairs at various times, I can reasonably confidently say that none of the doors were locked...at least not on the Ground, Conference, 2nd, 3rd and 5th Floor levels! Indeed, as mentioned in the Opening Ceremonies, they'd specially fitted handles to all of the doors precisely so you could open them from the inside on all floors.

And whilst the card readers were active on the "usual" stairs near Reception, the locks had been overridden and you didn't need to swipe to open the doors from the inside.

Again, your mileage may vary...

Cheers,

Southie
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: Thygrrr on 23.08.2011, 01:01:07
All relevant doors were open all the time. Swiping cards (I absent-mindedly swiped a staircase door lock once) didn't do anything bad.
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: BluePaw on 23.08.2011, 01:50:27
shorter said. what i noted was, stairs near reception was open to both-ways no problems. stairs to the left of the back elevators towards, behind main stage entrance, allso open both ways no problems. BUT stairs to the right of the back elevators was NOT open for going upwards, only to get down. and nice and all with the über-ventilation from the mainstage stairs, but the soundlevels were dangerously high and needed protection for the ears to get past. but indeed a very nice idea! highly aprechiated air-condition^^
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: Cheetah on 23.08.2011, 03:29:12
It's correct, only the staircases on the left hand side (seen from the main entrance) were open in both directions. I agree we could have announced it more visibly. We'll do that next year.

By the way, the explanation for the loud noise and flow of air was that the AC was having a hard time keeping the temperature down in the atrium, so the house technician activated the "gas purge" system that is originally meant to keep the staircases smoke-free in case of a fire to assist the air circulation in the lobby area.

I agree it was loud, but the fursuiters loved it (there were alway quite a few flocking around the staircase entry), and you could do some fun stuff in there ... like let a balloon fly, and watch it circle down the staircase into the lobby without ever touching a wall :)
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: Tarangryph on 23.08.2011, 08:56:21
Yes, I was in a lift and someone was talking about if they pressed a button and another button it would go from your floor to your destination without stopping at the interim floors, I had to bite my tongue to prevent a outburst of rage, I really wanted to say "you selfish ****!"

Thankfully whilst within said lift he said it "sadly wasn't working anymore", too damn right!, shouldn't of been 'working' in the first place!

You should have said 'you selfish ****!' to that person! When people are being inconsiderate, don't just stand there and fume, talk to them, report them to security, make them understand they're making everybody else's con a lot less fun. It's the only way to improve the situation.

The direct-to-X-floor 'cheat' function is for cases of emergency when a team of firefighters or paramedics needs to get their (often heavy) equipment up to a certain floor or an injured person down without making unnecessary, time-consuming and potentially dangerous stops on the way. So the code has to be there for emergencies, but it shouldn't be abused as it clearly was in this case.

I also experienced fursuiters getting out at floor level and pressing all the floor buttons as they did. One meerkat was particularly bad at this; I didn't catch his name or I would have reported him to security! I was in a 'suit and HURTING, I needed to go to my room ASAP, and the idiot pressed all the floor buttons...  m( F*** YOU, MEERKAT! It wasn't cute or funny, it was annoying and I could have been seriously injured because of you!  >:(

I also had problems with the stairs, getting trapped in the one to the right of the back elevators. I never found out that there were open stairs to the left of them (it was my first convention and I was a little too overwhelmed to think of doing a thorough search for staircases). Maybe you can mark the stairs not only with whether they 'access-all-levels' or 'floor-level only', but also with arrows on the elevators pointing to them and suggesting people use them - I experienced several people going up only one floor - that's lazy! I lived on the 6th floor and 'suited every day, and I sometimes had to walk up because the elevators were too busy, one time in fursuit...

Another helpful service would be to mark the doors on the inside with what 'panel rooms' are on that floor; I kept getting confused about the different rooms and didn't know which floor to get out at.

So yeah, those were my complaints and suggestion; apart from the elevator idiocy, I had a wonderful first convention and I am definitely coming back next year! Also, I must admit to playing a little with the elevators myself; if you took the front glass elevators up in the evening and only narrowly escaped being attacked by a zombie, that was me... ;}

~Taran.
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: Schakaline on 23.08.2011, 10:03:36
I dunno, never had any real problems with the lifts or stairs this time around, unlike last year.


Maybe if people would read...... signs? (which they don't  ;D)
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: Quincy the Raccoon on 23.08.2011, 10:11:05
Yeah, tried the staircases once and MAN that was NOISY! You could not hear yourself think in those hallways... and the elevators... strange stuff was going on -- when you pushed a button it would stop at a floor where no-one was there... ghostelevator?!
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: Thygrrr on 23.08.2011, 13:44:51
Yeah, tried the staircases once and MAN that was NOISY! You could not hear yourself think in those hallways... and the elevators... strange stuff was going on -- when you pushed a button it would stop at a floor where no-one was there... ghostelevator?!

No, people pushed the button but grew tired of waiting, so they moved on, exacerbating the situation.
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: BigBlueFox on 23.08.2011, 14:10:17
Yes, I was in a lift and someone was talking about if they pressed a button and another button it would go from your floor to your destination without stopping at the interim floors, I had to bite my tongue to prevent a outburst of rage, I really wanted to say "you selfish ****!"


Yes, someone mentioned that to me, too. I tried it a few times out of curiosity, and I can officially confirm: No, that does not work.
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: davuu on 23.08.2011, 15:33:50

 I didnt really find it a problem....

I was on the 5th floor, sometimes you had to wait ages for an elevator but there were people around that I didnt know and I just talked to them and got to know them:) so it was a good ice breaker.  I wasnt in a particular hurry to get anywhere, was a relaxing atmosphere the lobby would always be there, my friends would always be there, the dances were still dancing, so didnt really matter if the elevator was slow or I had to wait for the next one.

And if I was in suit waiting for an elevator I just interacted with whoever was there while I was waiting, so the lifts didnt really bother me.

However... in the case of elevators not stopping at floors due to people messing with buttons.  I was waiting by the glass elevators a few times and despite pressing the call button, several lifts just went straight passed the floor.  So not sure if this was someone pressing code buttons or not.

Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: Ralesk on 24.08.2011, 00:28:25
I think the emergency stairs in the back on the right side (next to the art show) were closed, but the ones in the front left (next to the reception, kinda hidden though, Max_Haibane showed them to me, I never saw them last year) were fully open at least up to the 5th floor.
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: Riffuchs on 24.08.2011, 00:38:23
From what I observed only a few guests took the opportunity to make use of the open staircases. I even saw lots of guests using the elevators for just going down one (1) floor. Despite that for some reasons not all staircases were unlocked, making more use of them would relax the situation a lot.
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: Jaryic on 24.08.2011, 00:47:13
Only the staircases on the side of the reception (left side) where opened and fitted with door handles (because the hotel simply had not enough door handles to fit all staircases)
I used them a lot while traveling the hotel from from ground to 7th floor and had never had a problem reaching the desired floor.
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: Riffuchs on 24.08.2011, 01:42:18
Only the staircases on the side of the reception (left side) where opened and fitted with door handles (because the hotel simply had not enough door handles to fit all staircases)

If its just that its just a matter of some bucks and a good deal with a supplier of such handles. *notes down*
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: cosmo on 24.08.2011, 17:55:27
However... in the case of elevators not stopping at floors due to people messing with buttons.  I was waiting by the glass elevators a few times and despite pressing the call button, several lifts just went straight passed the floor.  So not sure if this was someone pressing code buttons or not.

The lifts also have a weight sensor in them, so if they're close to their weight limit they don't stop until they get to a destination.

I did get annoyed once when an elevator with only 2 people in it went straight past because some selfish idiot was holding down the emergency buttons. To that person, and people like them, I would like to say when you buy the lifts, then feel free to use them as you wish, but until then please realise that you are not the only person at the con. The clue is in the name, it's an emergency code, there for emergencies only, not for impatient and selfish people like yourselves.

Other than that I think the situation was much better this year. The queues for the lifts weren't nearly as long as last year and the stairs seemed to help a lot
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: nobs on 25.08.2011, 19:14:42
I had no problem with the elevators. Sometimes you have to wait a little, but so what.

"Labelling" the stair houses is a good idea. Maybe some graphics with "you are here" and "these stairs lead to there" are possible.

The elevators had some problems and I missed to mention it to the hotel. Maybe this should be mentioned to them:

- the left elevator in the rear mixed up "up" and "down"

- the right one refused to open doors on -1 (parking level); it needed some manual help

- sometimes the buttons were blinking; this could freak out some sensible persons

- sometimes pressing buttons was not accepted / was ignored

- the special labels like "Rezeption" fell down; the labels made of brass might look nice, but on the convex surface they just do not work out

- the labelling in the elevators differ from that in the stair houses; from the point of usability and security they should be named consistent; especially when keeping in mind that the stairs normally used in emergency situations
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: Cheetah on 25.08.2011, 19:45:01
Nobs, I hope you told the front desk about it the moment this happened. The service technician from otis was on location at least two times.
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: nobs on 25.08.2011, 20:07:24
Nobs, I hope you told the front desk about it the moment this happened. The service technician from otis was on location at least two times.

The -1 issue was during depart. I missed to report that one.

The others were reported by other furs so far I know. But I am not sure whether it really was fixed, or I just didn't notice it any more.
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: Xar on 25.08.2011, 22:15:04
By the way, the explanation for the loud noise and flow of air was that the AC was having a hard time keeping the temperature down in the atrium, so the house technician activated the "gas purge" system that is originally meant to keep the staircases smoke-free in case of a fire to assist the air circulation in the lobby area.

I agree it was loud, but the fursuiters loved it (there were alway quite a few flocking around the staircase entry), and you could do some fun stuff in there ... like let a balloon fly, and watch it circle down the staircase into the lobby without ever touching a wall :)

Please, *please* do that again next year!
It was incredibly awesome, you could just step in front of the staircases in suit without even have to leave the lobby :)
And leave it running if possible (I think an emergency system isn't really meant to be active 24/7 for a week, but one can hope...)
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: SouthPaw on 26.08.2011, 13:55:08
Please, *please* do that again next year!
It was incredibly awesome, you could just step in front of the staircases in suit without even have to leave the lobby :)
And leave it running if possible (I think an emergency system isn't really meant to be active 24/7 for a week, but one can hope...)
The trouble with leaving the gas purge system running is that it knocks out the ventilation system for the bedrooms as, obviously, you don't want to have smoke being drawn into the bedrooms or staircases in the event of a fire.

Cheers,

Southie
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: Xar on 26.08.2011, 16:20:13
Please, *please* do that again next year!
It was incredibly awesome, you could just step in front of the staircases in suit without even have to leave the lobby :)
And leave it running if possible (I think an emergency system isn't really meant to be active 24/7 for a week, but one can hope...)
The trouble with leaving the gas purge system running is that it knocks out the ventilation system for the bedrooms as, obviously, you don't want to have smoke being drawn into the bedrooms or staircases in the event of a fire.

Cheers,

Southie


Oh, I see then. Too bad ^^
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: Cheetah on 26.08.2011, 18:56:04
The trouble with leaving the gas purge system running is that it knocks out the ventilation system for the bedrooms as, obviously, you don't want to have smoke being drawn into the bedrooms or staircases in the event of a fire.

The ventilation in my bedroom worked fine ... I'm sure they did switch things on manually, not actually activating the full emergency mode. That would have activated things all over the place that you don't want.
Title: Re: Stairs and elevators...
Post by: nobs on 27.08.2011, 15:53:27
As I mentioned somewhere else:

I saw several A/C in rooms set to 5°C. I guess it was because people think "I want it cooler, so I turn it down".

Try to understand how this thing works:

Cold stuff is supplied by a central system. Typically with something like 15°C.

Now you ask for 5°C. Teh system "sees" that the delivered air is warmer than the temperature you asked for.

Therefor it closes the vent and "waits" for better supply, that never will come.

Next time try something like 20°C (which is cool enough when we have 30°C outside) and enjoy your working A/C.

More modern systems have a "just ON"-position below some reasonable point like 18°C. But this system was too old, so you have to understand how it works to get the best of it.

I hope I could have helped for the next time.