The Eurofurence Forum
Eurofurence Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ragear on 19.08.2012, 15:43:15
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Hi everyfur
I've modified this a bit with Cheetah's additional input. PLEASE READ before making EDUCATED suggestions. Not just one or two conditions need to apply, but most, if not all, to keep hassle from staff.
well, there's a thread about theme ideas going on so: EF18 seems to squeeze the Maritim Magdeburg to the limits, and a limit to the growth of the EF doesn't seem to be near.
Are there ideas about possible other venues? You have an idea? Share it. But before, consider all this:
1) Venue/ Hotel must hold ~1500 min. 2000 Attendants
2) Venue must have 2-3 big ballroom(s), sized about at least 1500-2000sqm (that's 2 complete sport gyms!) and 800-1500sqm. and minimum 6 function rooms with 75-120sqm/ ea. for staff, back office, clinics, SIGs, gaming and so on.
3) reasonably reachable by public transport, and given who runs the show prefurably in Germany.
4) alternatives in terms of drinking, eating or partying outside the hotel.
5) a large supply of innocent bystanders handy to cuddle and admire the suitwalk.
6) reasonably rates for hotel rooms ... but good quality. Spa would be nice...
7) some sort of waterhole inside, like a bar or so.
8) some sort of waterhole outside, like a supermarket or so.
another one: I think it's not going to work if another very big event would be there around end of August or when EF could take place.
AND PLEASE: DO NOT APPROACH THE HOTELS BY YOURSELF; LEAVE THIS TO THE CAPABLE HANDS OF THE EF STAFF!
*hugs*
Ragear
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Suggestions for new venues? Cool idea. But you know that the suggestions are useless when you ask for parameters that are not the real ones. Maybe you should ask a member of staff AFTER EF for the real conditions we need.
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It's so cute to see how you believe you'll have so many choices, that you'll even get to the last point on your list :) Well, let's see how many venues you will find in Germany who have 1500+ beds and matching convention space on site. If you find any, I am VERY interested in hearing about them :)
For everyone wanting to chip in, some extra criteria:
- We're most likely talking about 2014, not 2013.
- Must be located in Germany
- Hotel capacity of at least 2000 beds. (We're already at 1300 this year.)
- Must be an indoor location. Outdoor locations are a no-go.
- Main ballroom must have at least 1500-2000 square meters.
- Secondary ballroom for artshow must have at least 800-1200 square meters.
- Third ballroom for dealers den must have at least 600-1000 square meters
- At least 6 more function rooms with 3 of least 75 square meters and another 3 of at least 120 square meters aeach are required
Now if you find me at least ONE location that matches these criteria (and that is not the Estrel in Berlin), I will be very impressed :)
Now before we even get to the point of comparing room or bar prices, we'd need to have TWO locations to choose from. So just for the record: If you find me TWO locations that match the above criteria, you should be doing this as your main job.
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I don't know if InterContinental Frankfurt hotel sound good. The hotel got 770 rooms and 21 floors. Sorry if it doesn't seem good enough.
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I don't know if InterContinental Frankfurt hotel sound good. The hotel got 770 rooms and 21 floors. Sorry if it doesn't seem good enough.
You didn't even read what I wrote did you? People, I know that you all have all the best intentions, and I really don't want to seem arrogant, but we also know how to use google, if you found a venue in 5 minutes, and didn't even bother checking more than ONE criteria, your suggestion is worthless and you can as well just save the time for something useful :)
Really, don't get me wrong, if you SERIOUSLY have a good suggestion, by all means, let us know. But as you can tell from my irritated reaction, I've gotten a lot of "suggestions" in the last years that were so pointless that it makes me doubt that there is any intelligence life on this planet.
If you can't even be bothered to check the criteria I posted before blurting out the first hit on google, you are not helping. You are wasting your time, and our time, too.
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ok, I modified the starting post accordingly to Cheetah's additional criteria. I suppose when germany is prefurred most of the locations will already be known to the staff, but let's give it a try :-)
*hugs*
Ragear
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Germany is not only preferred, but it's definitely required.
The reason for that is that roughly 90% of the staff is German. We know German laws, regulations, requirements. We can negociate with offices, bureaus, authorities and businessmen in our native language only. Eurofurence has grown to a point where we can no longer fly under the radar, we have to comply with the local laws with everything we do, be it serving of alcohol, controling the access of minors, public performance of music, usage of lasers, security issues, providing first responders for possible medical issues...
Also, EF owns more than a truckload of equipment that is ultimately required to run this convention. You may not be aware of this, but every year, we haul a truck and several station wagons and vans filled up to the rooftop to the convention site. Also, we rent a truck full of lighting gear from a company that keeps things affordable for us because we've been working with them for many many years.
Moving countries would mean that we'd lose that benefit. We'd have to rely on a different lighting company that would make things much more expensive. Then, there's all the red tape involved: most of the staff would have to invest weeks and months learning about the different local laws. It would completely change the face of EF when suddenly, serving of alcohol gets regulated in ways like the UK does. Moving our equipment is a logistical problem that is nearly impossible to solve.
So as much as I hate to say it, but at this point it's no longer to just roam around Europe. EF is now a big player and all the red tape involved is time consuming enough. We couldn't do this any longer in a different country. EF 9 in the Czech Republic was a lesson for us.
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Germany is not only preferred, but it's definitely required.
(http://kinkyturtle.masemware.com/diaries/mff/mff04/mff04-3-3.gif)
#p
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YMMD.
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THIS
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Thirded.
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ahaha, I get it :-) war stories ...
I'd like to excuse me, it was not my intention to pee on somebodys achievements! I'm involved as operative in an pan-european model club whose non-public shows fills 6000m² at time, so talk about transport of valuable and complex stuff ... I surely understimated the complexity of this undertaking. And now you mention UK (I say required electric testing of EVERYTHING! at CFz) I get the neccessity for staying in Germany. You're absolutely right.
I intended this a bit as fun, with the chance of a gem idea. If you consider this to be counter-useful, if not worse, feel free to close this thread. Otherwise: just keep an eye out, maybe s.o. has a good one. Sorry to have abused your time 9 days short of EF :-)
Thanks for all the fun that you give to all the furs!
Ragear
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Don't worry, it's all good. I do admit it can become some kind of a hassle sometimes, not because people suggest venues that turn out to be unsuitable for our event, but mostly because a lot of people will start discussing things they deem useless, which however are a bare neccessity for us.
We have been and will always keep looking ourselves, but we still appreciate any suggestion you guys have. Just please don't be upset if we have to turn it down, or if it sometimes happens in a way that seems more rude than neccessary. This is an exceptionally difficult and busy period for most staffers. :)
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I'd like to excuse me, it was not my intention to pee on somebodys achievements! I'm involved as operative in an pan-european model club whose non-public shows fills 6000m² at time, so talk about transport of valuable and complex stuff ... I surely understimated the complexity of this undertaking. And now you mention UK (I say required electric testing of EVERYTHING! at CFz) I get the neccessity for staying in Germany. You're absolutely right.
Off-topic I know, but in the UK it's got to the stage where the team organising the London fur meets (every three weeks!) have had to set up a Limited Company (closest German equivalent being a GmbH) to take out public liability insurance for their fursuit walks and the details of the Summer and Winter parties (and possibly the normal meets) have to be notified to the local Police due to the numbers involved!
Back on topic, I don't envy anyone trying to find a suitable venue for a future move, given the essential requirements. And finding a suitable venue with an achievable budget is going to be even harder, even allowing for economies of scale.
Cheers,
Southie
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You can pretty much work down this list anyways ;D
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_gr%C3%B6%C3%9Ften_Hotels#Liste_der_deutschen_Hotels_mit_den_meisten_Zimmern (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_gr%C3%B6%C3%9Ften_Hotels#Liste_der_deutschen_Hotels_mit_den_meisten_Zimmern)
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So far I only found the Marriott that fits good
http://www.marriott.de/hotels/hotel-information/travel/fradt-frankfurt-marriott-hotel/
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So far I only found the Marriott that fits good
http://www.marriott.de/hotels/hotel-information/travel/fradt-frankfurt-marriott-hotel/
Look at the rooms and the size of the main hall..... m(
That's what everyone is talking about.
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Dhary is right.
Guys its a really good idea to make such a thread.
But i'm in charge of searching a venue for nearly ten years now and i know almost every hotel that would fit in germany.
Here is the deal, because i love challenges.
If you find a hotel that really fits our requirements i'll invite you for a drink ;D
What we need (stolen from Cheetah and modified)
- We're most likely talking about 2014, not 2013.
- Must be located in Germany
- Hotel capacity of at least 2000 beds. (We're already at 1300 this year.)
- Must be an indoor location. Outdoor locations are a no-go.
- Main ballroom must have at least 1500-2000 square meters.
- Secondary ballroom for artshow must have at least 800-1200 square meters.
- Third ballroom for dealers den must have at least 600-1000 square meters
- At least 6 more function rooms with 3 of least 75 square meters and another 3 of at least 120 square meters aeach are required
- The Hotel must be connected to the Convention center
We already know the Estrel Hotel in Berlin
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If you find a hotel that really fits our requirements i'll invite you for a drink ;D
Wow, now he means business. :D #p
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I'm looking on tagungshotels24.de right now, thats what I found so far:
http://www.tagungshotels24.de/tagungshotel-bontkirchen-964.htm
http://www.tagungshotels24.de/tagungshotel-berlin-2513.htm
Maritim Berlin / Maritim Düsseldorf
It's hard to find something with a lot of rooms and big event rooms. I think a hotel with at least 700 rooms and big event rooms doen't exist in germany
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Maritim Düsseldorf geht nicht weil das Hotel permanente Kontingente an Airlines verkauft.
Das bedeutet das wir es nie komplett bekommen.
Berlin ist zu klein und zu teuer.
Innerhalb der Maritim Gruppe arbeite ich mit dem zuständigen KeyAccount Manager zusammen, Magdeburg ist im Moment das einzige Maritim Hotel was für uns in frage kommt.
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Hab ich mir schon gedacht das die irgendwie nicht gehn werden
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(Sorry for posting in german again ...)
Wenn sich kein Hotel finden läßt, was zu den Anforderungen paßt, vielleicht müßten die Anforderungen auch mal ein wenig an das (mögliche neue) Hotel angepaßt werden ... Oder der eine oder andere Punkt ein wenig oder neu überdacht werden. Vielleicht reichen für die EF in 2014 auch erstmal ca. 1600 - 1700 Betten? Und für den Fall, daß es doch mehr werden, muß neben dem neuen Hotel vielleicht gleich ein Ausweich-Hotel angeboten werden?
Bitte nicht gleich abbügeln, ich weiß selber, Tips geben ist meistens (sehr viel) leichter als Tips annehmen und umsetzen. Es soll auch nur ein kleiner Denkanstoß sein.
Murphy
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(Sorry for posting in german again ...)
Wenn sich kein Hotel finden läßt, was zu den Anforderungen paßt, vielleicht müßten die Anforderungen auch mal ein wenig an das (mögliche neue) Hotel angepaßt werden ...
Die Frage ist nur, wie bringst du 1500 Gäste dazu, ihre Anforderungen "anzupassen"? :)
Oder der eine oder andere Punkt ein wenig oder neu überdacht werden. Vielleicht reichen für die EF in 2014 auch erstmal ca. 1600 - 1700 Betten? Und für den Fall, daß es doch mehr werden, muß neben dem neuen Hotel vielleicht gleich ein Ausweich-Hotel angeboten werden?
Du musst weiter in die Zukunft denken. Wir suchen nichts für 2014. Wir suchen etwas für 2014 und die Jahre danach. Den Standort zu wechseln ist ein Riesenaufwand und ein großes Risiko, das willst du nicht eingehen wenn du keine Aussichten hast, an dem neuen Standort auch ein paar Jahre zu bleiben.
Bitte nicht gleich abbügeln, ich weiß selber, Tips geben ist meistens (sehr viel) leichter als Tips annehmen und umsetzen. Es soll auch nur ein kleiner Denkanstoß sein.
Die Essenz deines Vorschlags ist "kurzfristiger Planen" - aber ich sehe den Vorteil darin nicht.
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Naja, um ein Ausweichhotel wird man auch die dauer gesehn nicht herumkommen wenns um Zimmer geht, Deutschland braucht halt keine riesen Hotelkomplexe
Ist ja schon nett vom Maritim Hotel das mehr Leute als normal auf den Zimmern sein dürfen, zeugt davon das sie gute Erfahrungen mit euch haben :)
Das Einzige was grad wohl noch merklich größer werden kann, ist die Veranstaltungsfläche, jedenfalls wenn ich die m² Zahlen des Hotels sehe, bin ja dieses Jahr erst das erste mal dabei.
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can we gently swing back into english for the politeness to other furs?
The gist of the previous posts was that adapting (spell: downsizing) the requirements for a possible EF venue may help for one year, will piss some furs of due to lack of capacity, and will fall back bitterly another year later.
So for now: Ideas still welcome, don't push too hard, staff has the kindness to take notice and reply, but let's not stress it too much :-) 3 days before EF officially starts.
One requirement must also be taken into calculation (literally): the aspiring new venue should be affordable, too. I do not think we can solve this problem by throwing cash at it...
cu @ EF
Ragear
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Considering the space requirements, accommodation for many, with rooms for panels, an auditorium for performances, a large balroom-like space for dances...and it has to be
cheap affordable...
It sounds like what is needed is an abandoned Air Base!
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um, in terms of space an aircraft maintenance hangar is unbeatable :-) but amenities like having your bed made up everyday by housemaidens and clean bathrooms have their pro's to be honest. The haggle to find an abandoned airfield in Germany and the expenditure to have it set up for some 1500+ party people plus catering is probably way too much. But the idea is fascinating, though. I could land with my private aircraft right in front of the dances :-))
Ragear
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Going by the conbook map, the Fursuit Lounge went into the third largest room in the hotel, and also the only other large room on the ground floor. I assume the second is most important, but how is that part of Eurofurence growing? Since Bonn had curtains, I ssume you didn't put it there for size reasons? Not that I want to make things worse, but does this need to be a sperate requirement on the list?
In practice people coming to EF already stay at three seperate hotels. If we could find two hotels close together, and both meet half your requirements, and both were available, would you consider that arrangement?
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Having function rooms spread over several venues is something we'd also like to avoid.
Every year we can see this happen at Anthrocon, where you, if you will forgive my exageration, have to walk for a mile to get to the dealers den, and then back a mile to the next panel, and then again switch location to meet your friends at the bar. It is obviously unavoidable at AC, but no one is happy about this.
And you figured correctly, that the fursuit lounge is also a key-"big-room". If need be, size can be slightly reduced. Magdeburg just happens to be the ideal lounge-venue sizevize.
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And you figured correctly, that the fursuit lounge is also a key-"big-room". If need be, size can be slightly reduced. Magdeburg just happens to be the ideal lounge-venue sizevize.
*coughs*
Considering the amount of "I didn't have room for my suit" postings, it might actually be a wee bit small...
Please allow me to cry a little.
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Moderator notice: Sorry for being strict, but suggestions not taking the posted criteria into consideration will be deleted from this thread from now on to keep everybody sane :)