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Eurofurence Information => Feedback => Topic started by: krakendwaggin on 03.09.2012, 10:03:46

Title: EF18 Feedback
Post by: krakendwaggin on 03.09.2012, 10:03:46
Well it's that time of the year again, Eurofurence has ended and we all walk back into our 'normal' lives.

This year was an amazing experience for me and whilst nothing can top my first convention, which was Eurofurence 16, this year's Eurofurence was absolutely brilliant and I want to thank every single one of you for making it fantastic.

This year I was lucky enough to receive my fursuit as it was sent directly to the Maritim Hotel, I have to thank them for accepting the parcel!, so I was suiting for the first time ever, I was the red/black orca partial that wandered around a few times, I want to thank the folks in the Fursuit lounge who were so accepting and helpful, giving me advice and being so kind to me, it was a whole new strange world to me and whilst I was still very shy and nervous, I didn't feel like an outsider.

Overall my experience this year was very very positive, the only thing I could mention was the Fursuit Photoshoot, now I was lucky to get a slot on the saturday, and the guys who did it were really fun and made the experience memorable, I'll never forget it and I look forward to seeing the results.
But, that day there were 12 slots, I was 11th in line in a queue of possibly 30 people, the kind lady whose name I sadly forget asked if we could come in groups (which I did for my slot, grabbing two friends of mine), but I couldn't help but feel guilty to all those who waited and had to be turned away, but this nice lady said that they're working on it for next year, so I hope that many more suiters can be made happy next year!

Dealers Dens were great this year (yes I queued for three hours that first day), but I can't help but see that one den gets queues and the other remains mostly empty, I can't help what den gets what custom, but when I can walk out of one den and see a massive queue yet just casually stroll into the other one just a minute later, perhaps a balance needs to be struck, I don't know how, it's just an observation from little old me.

Anyways, much thanks to the Eurofurence Staff, I look forward to next year!
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 04.09.2012, 00:58:20
(almost) everything was in time!!!!!!
wonderful job from all the EF people to succeed this little marvel!

it may be a detail but I appreciated not having a hundred balloon explosion in the lobby as we had last year, thank you for listening to the forum comments from last year.
though at some point I noticed a giant balloon in the main stage during the bigbluedance, which was, to my opinion, flying dangerously close to the ceiling and the light system and everything, but as it disappeared soon after, I guess the security or staff did something about it before an accident could happen.

all in all, I had another great time at EF, thanks to all the people who made this possible
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Lightfox on 04.09.2012, 01:58:09
Here is my humble feedback!

+ Virtually everything was indeed on time, which a welcome change from the previous years!
+ The big blue dance was probably the best one i ever experienced in years, to the point i stayed virtually all night long on the dance floor!
+ A lot of space available in the artshow for people to move around without running into each other, even at the end.
+ The official EF smartphone application was a really nice idea
+ The con ops were really cool with handling overflowing parties
+ The signs on the doors to the stairs, with infos about unreachable areas were very usefull
+ Door knobs in (almost) every door to the stairs were quite an enhancement to be able to avoid elevators

- The fursuit friendly dance didn't seem to have been optimized for fursuit dancing
- Some serious sound issues on the main stage during events
- Not enough space for the dealer's den: there was a queue all day long almost permanently in front of the main one.
- There was a guy who kept wondering with an incomplete fursuit, both in the lobby and the dances, even at the dead dog party: he had a full body on, but instead of a head, he just had sun glasses and a cap with ears on top of them. At first, i thought it was a fursuiter who was cooling off, but it seems it really was his costume, since i never saw him with a real fursuit head on. I know this is highly subjective, but i really found this disturbing and not really pleasant to look at, especially when your gaze switches from a traditionnal fursuit - no matter the quality - to one that's missing the most important part.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Blaster-Hedgie on 04.09.2012, 05:29:56
The Fursuit Photoshoot was rather disappointing. I queued up, along with a lot of others, since 10:30am on Saturday to then be told, "Sorry, all slots are filled for today", even though no one had actually signed up yet. Might've been easier just to put a sign on the door saying "Filled already, sorry".

Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Schakaline on 04.09.2012, 11:38:47
- There was a guy who kept wondering with an incomplete fursuit, both in the lobby and the dances, even at the dead dog party: he had a full body on, but instead of a head, he just had sun glasses and a cap with ears on top of them. At first, i thought it was a fursuiter who was cooling off, but it seems it really was his costume, since i never saw him with a real fursuit head on.

That would be Yagfox. Judging from previous experience, his opinion of what constitutes a "fursuit" differs somewhat from the mainstream.  ::)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: BigBlueFox on 04.09.2012, 11:40:23
- There was a guy who kept wondering with an incomplete fursuit, both in the lobby and the dances, even at the dead dog party: he had a full body on, but instead of a head, he just had sun glasses and a cap with ears on top of them. At first, i thought it was a fursuiter who was cooling off, but it seems it really was his costume, since i never saw him with a real fursuit head on.

That would be Yagfox. Judging from previous experience, his opinion of what constitutes a "fursuit" differs somewhat from the mainstream.  ::)

Yep, it's him, he has been pulling the same stunt at Confuzzled and CFD. It's kinda strange, he used to be a well-respected fursuiter years ago, but it seems like that kind of attention wasn't enough for him.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cheetah on 04.09.2012, 13:11:56
I agree, that open-faced rabbit retard costume is a piece of British humour I can't quite get to terms with either. Oh well.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Sithy on 04.09.2012, 13:29:01
+ EF security and the way they handled my issue with a guy that got...very creepy and did some inappropriate things. Thanks for taking me seriously and even telling me what the consequences would be for him. I appreciate it and I left the situation a lot calmer and at ease than I was before.
+ Again Security for arriving fast (and maybe in too full force, oops  ;D) when we needed a medic at late departure
+ Fursuit Lounge was great. I went in at the oddest hours yet there were always cold drinks and candy available. Great job and thank you! As soon as the drinks got lukewarm staff would seemingly pop out of nowhere to replace them with cold ones. Not sure how you guys did that ;) But thanks!
+ Information availability. I always knew where to go if I needed something. Everything was clear. I tend to get lost easily but never had an issue.
+ EF Prime, worked great apart from a few very minor technical blips, and it was nice to watch in the mornings or when getting ready
+ The discounts at the restaurants for EF goers. Food was really good and serving was as fast as can be expected with restaurants being waaaaay more crowded than usual. (Honestly. I noticed people complaining at the Steakhouse, but have you seen how busy they were? It's to be expected that it takes them a bit longer!) I can also recommend the Spanish restaurant -- waiters may seem a bit cold but that's just how they are, they had amazing food and great service. Yummy fish! Likewise I can recommend Panda's Bubbletea, the kind owner got us an extra slushie for free as he was pleased with the extra clients EF got him. Very good and instant sugar rush.


- Music at fursuit friendly dance appeared to turn to dubstep? (something with a fast beat, anyway) really fast, didn't work so well for most suiters HOWEVER I noticed a lot of non-suiters did love it, so I guess that's good :p I just expected a different type of music since it was called a fursuit friendly dance.
- People and their apparant lack of insight/common sense regarding elevators. Fursuiters go first, which I spoke up about several times and I just got blank stares. People even insisted to take along larger-than-me inflated inflatables while there were fursuiters dying to get to their rooms. Rude!
I know Security is VERY busy so I am not sure if I'm being realistic, but maybe put one or two people at the elevators at peak hours to ensure a more smooth ride? Peak hours like after the fursuit parade, before/after the fursuit dance etc. I am sure Security looks a little more intimidating than me as a fuzzy happy collie ;)
- Likewise, a lack of common sense in the fursuit lounge. Please don't hog the drying devices for hours on end! I noticed this already got covered by lounge staff in the appropriate thread so yay for you guys :) IMHO though it's not something fursuit lounge staff should/can be blamed for...people just need to get some manners. I own a lot of suits so we took our own fans along so we can dry stuff in our own room -- rather than take up 9+ spots for hours on end. Just something to consider! I saw a lot of suits just sitting there for days on end  ???

Lastly thanks to all of you that came to my (and Spark's) Fursuiting 101 panel. There were a LOT more of you than we expected and I'm so glad you liked it :) Thanks for all the positive feedback, we will be back next year.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Dhary Montecore on 04.09.2012, 13:42:51
+ EF security and the way they handled my issue with a guy that got...very creepy and did some inappropriate things. Thanks for taking me seriously and even telling me what the consequences would be for him. I appreciate it and I left the situation a lot calmer and at ease than I was before.
+ Again Security for arriving fast (and maybe in too full force, oops  ;D) when we needed a medic at late departure.

Thanks for your kind words. You are very welcome of course! Party on, we got your back. ;3

[...] (Honestly. I noticed people complaining at the Steakhouse, but have you seen how busy they were? It's to be expected that it takes them a bit longer!) [...]

That impression might have come from the fact, that it was very hard for them to find a language to communicate in. Or that the Steakhouse has a new owner and it was his first encounter with us. Or that they are just not able to handle these extreme demands with the facilities they have. (Quote of the owner: "Next year we just add another building to our restaurant") Despite all these problems they where facing I never found them rude or slow. Quite the opposite. The steakhouse is still my no.1 location outside of the hotel!

I know Security is VERY busy so I am not sure if I'm being realistic, but maybe put one or two people at the elevators at peak hours to ensure a more smooth ride? Peak hours like after the fursuit parade, before/after the fursuit dance etc. I am sure Security looks a little more intimidating than me as a fuzzy happy collie ;)

Your feedback here is highly appreciated, as we deemed this issue to be a problem for years now. We just hoped that mentioning these very basic rules in various places and especially in the "Your First Furry Convention"-Panel, would be enough to spread some common sense. Unfortunately that didn't work out, judging by the feedback you and others give us. So we will place security in such peak-times at the elevators next year, and see if that works better. :3
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Schakaline on 04.09.2012, 13:48:19
- Likewise, a lack of common sense in the fursuit lounge. Please don't hog the drying devices for hours on end! I noticed this already got covered by lounge staff in the appropriate thread so yay for you guys :) IMHO though it's not something fursuit lounge staff should/can be blamed for...people just need to get some manners. I own a lot of suits so we took our own fans along so we can dry stuff in our own room -- rather than take up 9+ spots for hours on end. Just something to consider! I saw a lot of suits just sitting there for days on end  ???

Remember there's a number of people staying in the overflow hotels, too They probably can't be bothered to carry their fursuit back and forth between hotels, I guess. :-\

(Actually, a good idea would be to put up a few coat racks for storing already dried suits, come to think of it...)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Gero on 04.09.2012, 14:52:58
I wasnt that bothered with the guy in a headless suit, every character is kinda unique and thats maybe his way off things.

What was more "disturbing" in that sence was a guy that had a partial suite but with shorts and short sleaved tshirt so that parts of his skins was showing on legs and arms, breaked the magic for me.

Pros:
+Generally good con and a awesome first con experience, I walked around and adored all the fursuiters, and it was severel off thim in the lobby every time I was there! Great and fun.
+The GOH Peter S Beagle was a great and friendly guy who I really enjoyed hearing and talking to at severel occation.
+The parade was great and off a good length.
+The concert and the pawpet shows was great and fun experience, specially since I love theathre and specially musical theathre.
+Great and friendly staff, speciall Pinky and Cage was awesome to speak with.
+When I come to the station I got greated with severel furries and a swedish friend of me, that was awesome helpfull and something I hope you would make official next year! Such assistance is really usefull for newbis, as well as a great introduction to the con for Magdeburg people.

Cons:
-You have the buffet stated in the official programme and thus Id like to bealive it should be free of charge for the guests, or it wouldnt be off much use to put it as an "offical" meal event, would it? Would have been nice to have a welcome dinner/meal included.
-Some events, specially the concert, started very late, and I lost info about it.
-There was a long que to one off the dealers den, and a short to the other, maybe you should do a better balance or room setting for them next time?
-The GOHs musical event saw the room (munchen room) completely empty and we (including Peter) had to move chairs and other furniturs, thus should be done by the staff, really.
-To loud volume at the fursuiters friendly dance with no (what I could see) earplugs scared me away from that event. Later you suplyed them and it was a great adition to thoose with sencitive ears.
-No info where you could find the different staff sections, specially the lost and found section. As it was now I could see one staff desk and they tryed to make me give a piece I found on the floor at the "lost and found" area but I still havent a clue on where that was.
-No activities on sunday. I would have loved to had a few thing to do before the dead dog party, as it was now most off that day was a long "the day after feeling."
-No official closing cermony. Why, really?
-Not so good timetable on some event. There where many panels at the same times (12,14 and even 16) and you couldnt visit all that you where interested in. Also the fursuit dance contest was at the same time most off us has to go and prephere for the parade, I couldnt onl see 3 or 4 numbers and would have loved to see more of it and it should have been schedualed away from other major fursuiting events.
-No official meeting point. That would have been much easier to meet and great with friends.

Overall a great and fun experience! Thanks!
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Skie on 04.09.2012, 15:10:25
The new fursuit parade route is awesome.
Gave trax application feedback already. Nice addition.
Congratulations on getting main events times better :)
Dances were especially good this year, any recordings? :)
Splitting the auction into two parts is very good imo.

Fursuit dance seemed to have failed :/
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Gero on 04.09.2012, 17:15:17
- Likewise, a lack of common sense in the fursuit lounge. Please don't hog the drying devices for hours on end! I noticed this already got covered by lounge staff in the appropriate thread so yay for you guys :) IMHO though it's not something fursuit lounge staff should/can be blamed for...people just need to get some manners. I own a lot of suits so we took our own fans along so we can dry stuff in our own room -- rather than take up 9+ spots for hours on end. Just something to consider! I saw a lot of suits just sitting there for days on end  ???

Remember there's a number of people staying in the overflow hotels, too They probably can't be bothered to carry their fursuit back and forth between hotels, I guess. :-\

(Actually, a good idea would be to put up a few coat racks for storing already dried suits, come to think of it...)
Yes we where many that stayed at overflow hotel, and actually some storage area, or even storage lockers, would be a great service to us. I didnt mind carrying my fursuit back and forth but a fixed and secured spot to store/dry it at the fursuit lounge would definately help.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: ysegrim on 04.09.2012, 17:22:45
Cons:
Thank you very much for your feedback! EF staff will try very hard to make each con better than all the EFs before ... however, I believe a few of your points are rather unlikely to be changed (anyone, please correct me where I am wrong)
 
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-You have the buffet stated in the official programme and thus Id like to bealive it should be free of charge for the guests, or it wouldnt be off much use to put it as an "offical" meal event, would it? Would have been nice to have a welcome dinner/meal included.

There ain't no free lunch :)  No, seriously, the hotel would charge us for each guest, and if this would result in a bill of, say, EUR 15,- per person (I am making up this number, but I believe it would be realistic for an AYCE BBQ buffet), we would have to raise the con fee by this amount -- even for those who arrive too late, who are still busy setting up their stuff, or who would prefer other food. This way, only those who wants to join the "official" BBQ have to pay for it.

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-Some events, specially the concert, started very late, and I lost info about it.
We are very sorry about the delays, and will try very hard to avoid them in the future (it got already a lot better since the Ringberg days ...) Anyways, the text band in EFprime (visible e.g. on the screen next to the Piano bar in the lobby) was set up to inform people about changes. We will discuss other means of getting this information to our attendees in the future (of course, hoping that we will not have to use them :) )

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-There was a long que to one off the dealers den, and a short to the other, maybe you should do a better balance or room setting for them next time?
-The GOHs musical event saw the room (munchen room) completely empty and we (including Peter) had to move chairs and other furniturs, thus should be done by the staff, really.
Can't comment on those ... anyone from the teams? Anyways, I really doubt the latter was done on purpose, and Con Ops spend a lot of effort to provide every SIG with the material they needed. However, even if we call ourselves "Staff", these are completely unpaid positions, and our con fee is as high as everyone else's (many are even sponsors or supersponsors, which the staff badges don't show) -- "should be done by the staff" sounds a lot more arrogant than I assume you mean this sentence.

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-To loud volume at the fursuiters friendly dance with no (what I could see) earplugs scared me away from that event. Later you suplyed them and it was a great adition to thoose with sencitive ears.
Please submit your Kudos to Thygrrr for that one -- we are very happy about him providing everyone with these earplugs. He will be happy to have feedback on them here: https://forum.eurofurence.org/index.php/topic,4033.msg39507/topicseen.html

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-No info where you could find the different staff sections, specially the lost and found section. As it was now I could see one staff desk and they tryed to make me give a piece I found on the floor at the "lost and found" area but I still havent a clue on where that was.
Basically, all of the staff area most participant should ever come into contact with is the con ops office (you don't want to be in need of the Medics office, and you really don't want to be asked into the security office ;) )
Anyone with a red badge would have gladly shown you the way to con ops.

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-No activities on sunday. I would have loved to had a few thing to do before the dead dog party, as it was now most off that day was a long "the day after feeling."
The con is over on Sunday morning. That's why the night from Sunday to Monday is called "late departure".
Anything after the Big Blue Dance is a bonus.

(We used to have a feedback session around noon, but it turned out to be much more productive to collect the feedback in our forum. Besides, most of our staff is busy breaking down the main stage, art show, Den, and everything else on Sunday)

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No official closing cermony. Why, really?

Traditionally, the end of the Pawpet Show serves as our closing ceremony. A dedicated ceremony on Saturday would either delay the Big Blue Dance, or collide with the Pawpet Show. And you don't want to see anyone from the core staff on a stage before noon on Sunday :)

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-Not so good timetable on some event. There where many panels at the same times (12,14 and even 16) and you couldnt visit all that you where interested in.

We have tried out to have an earlier slot in the morning, and AFAIR also a later slot in the evening. Feedback was rather negative. So the only solutions would be to cancel panels (which I would not consider an improvement), or to make EF days having more than 24 hours (which I would consider an improvement, despite all the legal and physical issues this would raise).

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Also the fursuit dance contest was at the same time most off us has to go and prephere for the parade, I couldnt onl see 3 or 4 numbers and would have loved to see more of it and it should have been schedualed away from other major fursuiting events.

Same as above. It was not possible to move the timeslot for the fursuit parade for a couple of reasons, and it was not possible to move the Contest for a couple of other reasons. Besides, there is more or less always a fursuit event going on; see above. Anyway, Programming will see what they can do next year -- given the large number of panels, they will only be able to avoid most collisions, not all of them.

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-No official meeting point. That would have been much easier to meet and great with friends.

A single meeting point for a convention of 1300 people would have to have the size of the hotel lobby -- which, actually, serves pretty well as a meeting point in my experience :) If you need a smaller spot, you can easily add things like "next to the art show", "next to the glass elevators", or anything else :)

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Overall a great and fun experience! Thanks!

Again, thanks a lot -- we are glad to see people liked EF18, and we will be happy if they will like EF19 even more!
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Alpha_Ki on 04.09.2012, 20:50:09
Yeah yeah... the Dealers' Den... guys, if I had known, that some of you waited for more than three hours to get IN then I would have served hot chokolate and gave you blankets... seriously!

The splitted rooms are a big problem since we ran out of space and needed it to give more dealers and artists a chance to sell their art, prints and goods. We tried to announce both rooms everywhere to make poeple recognize the smaller room - to show both rooms are equal.
As far as I got feedback, it was better than at EF 17 but it didn't solve the problem it just made it smaller... I will bring up that topic at the next staff meeting and we will find a solution.   


We can't move walls... ok, we could... but no one wants to see us working with dynamite anywhere... *evil smile*

All I can say is: It was better than last year cause we learned things from the problems. Same we do for next year. ;) 
That there are always people not as happy as others about the situation I know and can handle.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cheetah on 04.09.2012, 21:29:29
Sorry for being brief, trying to answer in bulk as good as I can :)

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The fursuit friendly dance didn't seem to have been optimized for fursuit dancing

Since I seem to be hearing that a lot this year, we'll look into this.

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Some serious sound issues on the main stage during events

If you don't mention which event and which kind of sound issue, your feedback is not very useful.

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Not enough space for the dealer's den: there was a queue all day long almost permanently in front of the main one.

Sadly there is nothing we can do about it. We are out of space.

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You have the buffet stated in the official programme and thus Id like to bealive it should be free of charge for the guests, or it wouldnt be off much use to put it as an "offical" meal event, would it? Would have been nice to have a welcome dinner/meal included.

The registration page clearly says "food is not included" pretty much all over the place. EF hasn't been providing free food since EF13. The opening times are mentioned for your convenience only.

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Some events, specially the concert, started very late, and I lost info about it.

Yup, an accident happened on stage, and a staff member had to be taken care of by our medics. Staff was overwhelmed with stress, and communication wasn't as good as it should have been. I apologize.

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There was a long que to one off the dealers den, and a short to the other, maybe you should do a better balance or room setting for them next time?

Yup, we wanted to improve this, I don't know what went wrong about that yet. Possibly some missing communication between the new dealers management and security - we'll discuss this in the team.

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No info where you could find the different staff sections, specially the lost and found section. As it was now I could see one staff desk and they tryed to make me give a piece I found on the floor at the "lost and found" area but I still havent a clue on where that was.

The location of the con-ops office was well announced, but you ad mittedly have to know that lost-and-found is being handled by con ops. Small signage mishap.

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No activities on sunday. I would have loved to had a few thing to do before the dead dog party, as it was now most off that day was a long "the day after feeling."
No official closing cermony. Why, really?

Because one extra day of con activities would considerably raise the costs, and because it's beyond the human power of our staff to run events for one more day.
Don't forget our programming begins on Wednesday evening - that's one day earlier than at most conventions.

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Not so good timetable on some event. There where many panels at the same times (12,14 and even 16) and you couldnt visit all that you where interested in. Also the fursuit dance contest was at the same time most off us has to go and prephere for the parade, I couldnt onl see 3 or 4 numbers and would have loved to see more of it and it should have been schedualed away from other major fursuiting events.

The answer to this one is easy: It's the least of all evils. Firs tof all We have to do that, because our function rooms have limited capacity, so we need to "spread out" the crowd over many rooms. Then, having fewer parallel events would mean programming would have to start earlier, and end later during the day - that gets us into serious scheduling conflicts with the evening programming, and complaints from those panelists holding talks in empty rooms at 10 in the morning.

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No official meeting point. That would have been much easier to meet and great with friends.

I don't understand your point. Why can't you just say "Let's meet at the bar" or "Let's meet at the elevators"? A single meeting point really makes no sense with 1300 people coming to ... uh ... meet :)

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Yes we where many that stayed at overflow hotel, and actually some storage area, or even storage lockers, would be a great service to us.

Agreed, but since we're at 100% space usage, there's simply no free "area" where we could put it.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Ralesk on 04.09.2012, 21:53:48
Heh, I kept telling people in the back of the long queue at the first DD room to go to the other one, because that room is like almost empty (okay, there were about a dozen people inside at that point).  It kinda felt like people didn't even know about the other room. :P
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: krakendwaggin on 04.09.2012, 21:57:08
Yeah yeah... the Dealers' Den... guys, if I had known, that some of you waited for more than three hours to get IN then I would have served hot chokolate and gave you blankets... seriously!

I do remember how surprised you looked when you opened the door, besides Codewolf gave me a cup of tea and then Uncle Kage made me drink a massive beer (okay okay, not 'made me', I did offer as he needed the glass empty... seriously, ask him!)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Alpha_Ki on 04.09.2012, 22:06:58
That was my first year as team lead and I promise, me and my will work hard on that.

The Den is a very important part of EF not only for the artists but also for the customers.
So far I tried to help every one who came to me with a problem face to face but I felt a little helpless when I saw people "camping" in front of the door. You guys moved me in a very positive way and I will do my very best to improve the Den not just from inside but also on the outside. :)

These impressions I have to deal with myself first. But we will talk about that at the next staff meeting.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Shiro on 04.09.2012, 22:28:59
All In all I don't have much to say about EF18.
It was my first time at Maritime hotel, and I was fairly impressed with how well EF used the space that was available to them.

Where I felt the ice cracking where.

1.
The BBQ event.
I had in no way expected this event to be free. But at the very least I would expect the price of said event to be more.. Available.
I cheeked the conbook, with little luck. I then asked staff, who then told me that EF has nothing to do with it, and that I should ask the Hotel.
So basically it would be nice if such information got put either in the conbook, or on the pocket time schedule.

2.
The lines at the Dealers den.
I can't remember where I heard this. But it seems there was a misunderstanding going around, that one dealers den had the "clean merchandice" and the other one is where you would find all the porn.


3.
The art show aftermath.
I where told at the art show, after the art auction.
There would be put op a list off all the bidders. Where you could then see if you had indeed won anything, so if you didn't. You would not have to stand in line to get nothing  :P
This sounded like a really great plan. But I never was able to find said list, or a staff member who could tell me when it would be up.

But as I said minor things.



Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Ravusy on 04.09.2012, 22:33:22
The problem I saw with the Dealer's Den rooms, was that all of the popular artists were placed in the same room. The room with the less known artists never had a entry cue.
So please mix the artists next year, it would enhance the flow rate of customers and ease the bottleneck problem.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cairyn on 04.09.2012, 23:29:47
I where told at the art show, after the art auction.
There would be put op a list off all the bidders. Where you could then see if you had indeed won anything, so if you didn't. You would not have to stand in line to get nothing  :P
This sounded like a really great plan. But I never was able to find said list, or a staff member who could tell me when it would be up.

Unfortunately, there was a mishap with the bidder numbers. Through a combination of human error and technical failure, some numbers were issued twice. We were forced to ask the affected bidders to identify the pieces they were actually bidding on. This prevented the automatic generation of proper usable winner lists (and caused some delays).

So, while it was planned to hang such lists in front of the Art Show (as we had done last year), they were ultimately deemed too unreliable and confusing to be used. Since we have taken steps to implement an additional security layer on the software for next year, the winner lists will return for EF19. I am very sorry about any fruitless waiting this year.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: BD on 04.09.2012, 23:41:41
The charity was a really good one, it felt great to contribute to their cause. How much did they finally get in the end?

One other question - there was a crew from a Dutch TV show there, they filmed me and a few others in our fursuits while we were standing around in the lobby waiting for the Savannah Revolution concert to start , then when I was seated for the concert (still in my suit) they sat next to me and started asking questions, they asked me if I'd take my fursuit head off for the camera! (of course I didn't!) The woman seemed curious and friendly, yet a little bit pushy, and  I was courteous and friendly to them without really saying much, as it made me a bit cautious. Anyone know what that was about, hopefully they will do a positive feature about us for a change.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Jake R on 05.09.2012, 00:00:43
The charity was a really good one, it felt great to contribute to their cause. How much did they finally get in the end?

One other question - there was a crew from a Dutch TV show there, they filmed me and a few others in our fursuits while we were standing around in the lobby waiting for the Savannah Revolution concert to start , then when I was seated for the concert (still in my suit) they sat next to me and started asking questions, they asked me if I'd take my fursuit head off for the camera! (of course I didn't!) The woman seemed curious and friendly, and  I was courteous and friendly to them without really saying much, as it made me a bit cautious. Anyone know what that was about, hopefully they will do a positive feature about us for a change.

[edit:] Official word on interviewing crew below. [/edit] I actually just saw today's episode, which was on Amsterdam's Red Light District. I was rather impressed with it, and if next week's episode on fursuiters (yes, next week!) is anywhere near as well executed as the one on prostitution I'd be glad to watch it. It's in Dutch, but who knows, it might end up subbed in English online someday =3


[edit:] The charity raised 'over €13.000'. Which is amaaaaazing! =D [/edit]
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: o'wolf on 05.09.2012, 00:06:25
The charity was a really good one, it felt great to contribute to their cause. How much did they finally get in the end?
At least 13000 Euros according to the sign Pinky showed around at the Dead Dog Party.

Quote
One other question - there was a crew from a Dutch TV show there, they filmed me and a few others in our fursuits while we were standing around in the lobby waiting for the Savannah Revolution concert to start , then when I was seated for the concert (still in my suit) they sat next to me and started asking questions, they asked me if I'd take my fursuit head off for the camera! (of course I didn't!) The woman seemed curious and friendly, and  I was courteous and friendly to them without really saying much, as it made me a bit cautious. Anyone know what that was about, hopefully they will do a positive feature about us for a change.

Hrmpf, they weren't supposed to film or even interview random people without asking them beforehand. I left them with a Dutch furry who should have kept an eye on it to avoid situations like this. No need to discuss it in public, but if anyone has made any negative experience with them please drop me a note so we can avoid situations like this in the future. The crew was from BNN, a  broadcaster which is part of the Dutch public broadcasting system. They were filming for a serious documentary series called "je zal het maar zijn" (very, very roughly: "you should see it from my point of view"). The previous seasons were the best I've seen in TV journalism in years, and I have reason to believe that the next season will be equally good.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 05.09.2012, 00:10:03
Just an idea but maybe shuffle the *stars* artists between the two room would greatly reduce the queue in front of the main den.
The best thing would be two even sized room, so both would have the same level of interest, splitting the queue evenly, but I dont know if that configuration is possible with the available rooms.

That was my first year as team lead and I promise, me and my will work hard on that.

The Den is a very important part of EF not only for the artists but also for the customers.
So far I tried to help every one who came to me with a problem face to face but I felt a little helpless when I saw people "camping" in front of the door. You guys moved me in a very positive way and I will do my very best to improve the Den not just from inside but also on the outside. :)

These impressions I have to deal with myself first. But we will talk about that at the next staff meeting.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: BD on 05.09.2012, 00:23:51

Hrmpf, they weren't supposed to film or even interview random people without asking them beforehand.

They did ask when we were in the lobby if we wanted to be filmed, they didn't just start filming without asking. I was just a little surprised when they ended up next to me in the concert though, I didn't want to be personally interviewed, so instead of answering I started asking them questions :) But don't worry they weren't being aggressive or anything at all, I was nice to them, it was fun but I think they picked up on the fact that I wasn't really into being interviewed. I remember she asked me "which do you prefer being, the bear or your human self?" and I said "Well I can't really play the guitar very well as the bear."

I hope to see the finished video, thanks for the info.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: o'wolf on 05.09.2012, 00:31:52
I actually just saw today's episode, which was on Amsterdam's Red Light District.

Before everyone panics: each episode portraits three people. One topic is about sexuality or gender issues, one is about someone with an unusual hobby, the third usually about someone completely "normal" who was involved in some kind of major incident by pure chance. They basically accompany their protagonists and let them talk, giving just a bit of background information. I've watched two seasons of the show and haven't seen them once exploiting or ridiculing the portrayed person. I have reason to expect the fursuit segment to be in the "unusual hobby" part of the episode.

(And yes, I do know the reservations against BNN in general. And they sure do have some shows I don't want the topic "furry" to appear on. Nevertheless, the reputation of the broadcaster is just one aspect of several to consider when we decide whether we let them in or not.)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Jake R on 05.09.2012, 00:42:52
Before everyone panics...

[edit:] Actually, you know what? I'm sick and not able to properly share my point. Bottom line is: I see absolutely no reason to panic, and am looking forward to next week. Feel free to delete my earlier posts and quotes of me on this if you think it is required. [/edit]
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: o'wolf on 05.09.2012, 01:05:42
Before everyone panics...

[edit:] Actually, you know what? I'm sick and not able to properly share my point. Bottom line is: I see absolutely no reason to panic, and am looking forward to next week. Feel free to delete my earlier posts and quotes of me on this if you think it is required. [/edit]

It wasn't directed against you. It's just that furries tend to jump to conclusions. I just want to clarify what the show is about to avoid that from happening. Heck, I just had to say "BNN" to have some people almost freak out when I talked about it before EF. Anyway, as usual I'll write up a report about the media coverage and work and why I allowed some things I normally wouldn't as soon as I have my wits back.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Jake R on 05.09.2012, 01:47:14
It wasn't directed against you. It's just that furries tend to jump to conclusions. I just want to clarify what the show is about to avoid that from happening. Heck, I just had to say "BNN" to have some people almost freak out when I talked about it before EF. Anyway, as usual I'll write up a report about the media coverage and work and why I allowed some things I normally wouldn't as soon as I have my wits back.

I'm glad it wasn't, but I'm still sorry for discussing things that are not really my area. I just thought I'd add a cent or two right after seeing the show, and having very high hopes.

Anyway! Back to other topics. For instance, as already discussed at the con, I'd like to see this next year so I'll put it here as a reminder:

- Coupons with contact information for non-physical (charity) auction items, such as the photoshoot by NewEinstein (?). Explanation: he was supposed to be at the auction to instantly discuss details with the winner, but (due to unfortunate circumstances) was delayed and arrived right after it had been auctioned off. This meant that the winner got to the Art Show to claim his prize, and the people at the Art Show had nothing to give this person. I'd say it was handled quite well, especially considering the initial confusion, but coupons as a plan B would be nice for next year. =)


I'd also like to add some general feedback on the convention staff (including amongst others board, conops, security, and even volunteers without a staff badge). I've been to conventions that had a 'volunteer of the year'. I feel like I've been working as hard as I could, and I still am certain that, if EF had this award, I wouldn't be the one to get it. I've seen some staffmembers going way past their own limits, working harder than I can hope to achieve, doing whatever they could to make the visitors happy. I am, as last year, very impressed with the average level of dedication and effort the staff puts into this convention - and it shows, both in the happy visitors and the mostly positive feedback here. Thanks, all =)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Vinaru on 05.09.2012, 02:01:01
The problem I saw with the Dealer's Den rooms, was that all of the popular artists were placed in the same room. The room with the less known artists never had a entry cue.
So please mix the artists next year, it would enhance the flow rate of customers and ease the bottleneck problem.

Won't work that well. The artist in the Dealers Den want to sit near the people they like. And that's 100% understandable if you sit mostly 6 hours in a row there a work at stuff. Then at least you want people you know around you. If you start to mix people and force them to be placed somewhere else, imagine the mood.
And there are allready some more known artists in the second Den.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 05.09.2012, 02:03:02
about the charity auction items, was there a list of the items which would be auctioned? if yes I missed it, where was it? if no, that would be a very very interesting things to have, as some people would be interested to attend the auction just for that. this year it was a bit of a surprise to see what would be auctioned (some were expected, other werent, and some where simply not explained clearly (the custom balloon for example))
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: RufusWolf on 05.09.2012, 02:40:43
- The issue with the Dens where that Tani, Darknatasha, AlectorFencer, BlackPaw Productions and some of the "bigger" ones where all in the same group. So of course people would cue for that.
- Some ran out of hot water again this year. But I guess that was because everyone was doing it at the same time?
- The bar ran out of booze again! xD


+ Did we get chairs for the round tables in the lobby/foyer? Either way.. it was awesome!
+ The inflatable panel/event/thingy was cool!
+ The hotel staff keeps getting better and better!

+/- The music in the Piano bar was the exact same (sorry but..) crap as it was at the Main stage. I liked it when FoxAmoore was playing the piano and I actually liked the lass from the first year (who was hired by the hotel). Not everyone likes the "Unf unf unf" music, so why have it at two different places?
+/- The hotel made food till Midnight! Much appreciated, but we all get the munchies when we are drunk and not everyone goes to bed after midnight. ;3
+/- Do I need to mention the elevators again? ;D They where Better, but not optimal. We got sent to level 7 and then the buttons would get reset.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Itchigo Icetalons on 05.09.2012, 10:03:49
Quote
- Coupons with contact information for non-physical (charity) auction items, such as the photoshoot by NewEinstein (?). Explanation: he was supposed to be at the auction to instantly discuss details with the winner, but (due to unfortunate circumstances) was delayed and arrived right after it had been auctioned off. This meant that the winner got to the Art Show to claim his prize, and the people at the Art Show had nothing to give this person. I'd say it was handled quite well, especially considering the initial confusion, but coupons as a plan B would be nice for next year. =) [quote\]

This was an unfortunate turn of events. He only left an email adress. I am sorry for the mistake made by making sure there is indeed a voucher next year. Thank you for your input![b\]


Quote
about the charity auction items, was there a list of the items which would be auctioned? if yes I missed it, where was it? if no, that would be a very very interesting things to have, as some people would be interested to attend the auction just for that. this year it was a bit of a surprise to see what would be auctioned (some were expected, other werent, and some where simply not explained clearly (the custom balloon for example))[quote\]

It was deliberately decided to keep the list of charity auction items a secret this year so more people would come and see the show. Well discuss wether this has merit for next year or wether it would be better to have a list. Yes I budged up on quite a few of the art auction items and I feel bad about it. It was my first time and had no bloody idea what to expect and what to think about. Now I know and will make sure to ace it next year![b\]
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Thygrrr on 05.09.2012, 10:06:49
The problem I saw with the Dealer's Den rooms, was that all of the popular artists were placed in the same room. The room with the less known artists never had a entry cue.
So please mix the artists next year, it would enhance the flow rate of customers and ease the bottleneck problem.

This. Seriously, spread the prestigious dealers across the rooms. Tell them to suck it up - you cannot seat everyone next to everyone they want to be seated near. Make tuples of three or so and move them en bloc.

Just because some people didn't have a seating preference that doesn't mean they wanted to end up in as what in the eyes of many, many guests felt like an overflow / 2nd class dealer's den.

From the sheer difference of people in Den 1 vs. Den 2, I am pretty sure revenues in Den 2 were at least an order of magnitude lower than they could have been.

Ironically, by having Den 1 at full capacity with a huge queue, revenues for dealers in that den were probably diminished as well as the Den 1 denizens were basically competing in an ecosystem limited by the room's people throughput.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cheetah on 05.09.2012, 11:49:53
The charity was a really good one, it felt great to contribute to their cause. How much did they finally get in the end?

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Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Shiro on 05.09.2012, 12:04:50
I probably should have mentioned this in my first post, but I flat out forgot.

The wifi.. It was horrible to work with.

I can understand that the bandwidth wouldn't be able to handle games being played on it.

But sitting in the middle of the lobby with 3 bars, and still not being able to log in to either email, or checking new comments on FA.
That's a cruel tease at best.

I hope that next year there might be a place where people can be directly hooked up via cable, or stronger bandwidth is used.

And I know this comes of as harsh, and there will probably be comments like. "Be glad that you had it in the first place"
But that would be my entire point, give something stable or don't give it at all.


Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Klepsydra on 05.09.2012, 12:16:56
A suggestion for the art show: might it be possible to do what some US cons do, and post up a list of winning bids for each item, or failing that, a list of members who have winning bids? It's a real buzz-killer to line up for nearly an hour in the queue to pay for your art, only to be told when you get to the front "Sorry, you haven't won anything".
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 05.09.2012, 12:19:16
there is a paying T-mobile wifi network in the hotel, you can buy 1h, 10h or 1month of usage.
it works very well even in rooms away from the lobby
I never had any problem with it

I probably should have mentioned this in my first post, but I flat out forgot.

The wifi.. It was horrible to work with.

I can understand that the bandwidth wouldn't be able to handle games being played on it.

But sitting in the middle of the lobby with 3 bars, and still not being able to log in to either email, or checking new comments on FA.
That's a cruel tease at best.

I hope that next year there might be a place where people can be directly hooked up via cable, or stronger bandwidth is used.

And I know this comes of as harsh, and there will probably be comments like. "Be glad that you had it in the first place"
But that would be my entire point, give something stable or don't give it at all.



Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cheetah on 05.09.2012, 12:20:46
A suggestion for the art show: might it be possible to do what some US cons do, and post up a list of winning bids for each item, or failing that, a list of members who have winning bids? It's a real buzz-killer to line up for nearly an hour in the queue to pay for your art, only to be told when you get to the front "Sorry, you haven't won anything".

An explanation for that has already been posted a few posts before this one :)

https://forum.eurofurence.org/index.php/topic,4029.msg39629.html#msg39629
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Ralesk on 05.09.2012, 16:11:29
I probably should have mentioned this in my first post, but I flat out forgot.

The wifi.. It was horrible to work with.

I can understand that the bandwidth wouldn't be able to handle games being played on it.

But sitting in the middle of the lobby with 3 bars, and still not being able to log in to either email, or checking new comments on FA.
That's a cruel tease at best.

I hope that next year there might be a place where people can be directly hooked up via cable, or stronger bandwidth is used.

And I know this comes of as harsh, and there will probably be comments like. "Be glad that you had it in the first place"
But that would be my entire point, give something stable or don't give it at all.

I noticed that the issue was mostly with the DNS, so I ended up changing the DNS given by the Eurofurence DHCP to the Google Public Nameservers, ie. 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 — Everything worked like a charm from then on
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: BHO on 05.09.2012, 18:08:06
The problem I saw with the Dealer's Den rooms, was that all of the popular artists were placed in the same room. The room with the less known artists never had a entry cue.
So please mix the artists next year, it would enhance the flow rate of customers and ease the bottleneck problem.

There was a similar problem when EF was still at Suhl. It was solved by introducing the "Artist Alley" in a big spacial area infront of the Dealers Dens, but the location in Magdeburg sadly doesn't offer such an option (not a complaint, just a remark). Mixing the artists/ sellers might even out the viewer numbers, but will most likely end up disappointing the sellers. Many artists seek to spend the "worktime" in the Den with friends or people they know and get along well. That way time flies by faster and the mood is better in general. If they are forced to sit next to somebody they don't know I assure you that this will have a negative influence on the overall atmosphere...

I do not envy the DD staff for their task. They have to please both, sellers and buyers. If it is of any worth (since I wasn't there) as far as I know the sellers were rather pleased. I mean you fit in everybody who applied and the seating system was satisfactory, too.

Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Quincy the Raccoon on 05.09.2012, 20:27:11
Well, this was my second EF that I attended and I must say honestly and truthfully - even better than last year! lemme sum this up:

+ Elevators were actually working! (YAY!) Only a few glitches but hey... who cares?

+ Check-in: fast and easy, couldn't be better. (last year they could not find my fursuit badge)

+ Too much money paid for my reservation... the conops gave it back without a hitch! :D

+ Ops were very friendly! Even behind the scenes of the dance competition, even asked if I was nervous haha! (yes I was)

+ I got photographed many many times! (I got popufur!)

+ The inflatable thingy was awesome! Please again, next year!

+ My roomie Vustex, he was very friendly!

+ Had a laugh with Uncle Kage... he's so fun!

Now for the bit negative part:

- WIFI SUCKED! (yes, it did...)
- Drink prices went up AGAIN! (small soda for €3,- ... seriously?)
- Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong queues at the Dealers Den... OMG!  >:(
- Ever seeking for a spot to put your head to dry in the lounge... *sigh*
- Fursuit dance was TOO LOUD! (ran away from it)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Santa fox on 05.09.2012, 23:22:18
I can't really complain about much, to be honest; If anything, the schedule was a bit packed, though, I heard there was no other real way of doing it, so that is fine. Only thing beyond that was that there was a few brief moments when I, personally, couldn't hear what was being said during the opening ceremonies and pawpet show, it was only one or two words, though, and I have no idea if it has to do with my own bad hearing in occasions, or anything else.

Beyond that, everything was quite an blast; Check-in was fast, room was nice, hotel personnel were nice, bartenders were nice, prices in the bar were slightly below the average of what we have over here, so, no complaints there. While I can only assume Gyro and Dhary; And the rest of the ConSec people I hung around with quite a big were indeed quite busy, they still found the time to actually have a talk with me, drinks and to actually have some fun, as the "Feuerwehr" Dhary showed :v

I am quite glad to have had my first con experience be Eurofurence, even if things did start off a wee bit rocky, I do hope it is not something that will follow me until the end of times.. And once again, as I do not believe I had the time or such for it while making my run during the DDP; Thank you all who signed the drink menu I was running around with.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Kanrei on 05.09.2012, 23:33:45
This was my first EF and I loved it. Everything was so nice. It was also my first time fursuiting, this was funny too, but I think I shouldn`t attend the parade, because in the end it was nearly too much for me. (I thought I could handle it, since I was suiting a hour on the EF and also was on the dance, and moved there all the time. But I was wrong, on the dance I was nearly all the time on the ventilator and when I was suiting other time I didn`t move all the time)
It was also funny making door plates and let on other doors messages.
The panels are nice too, and there was so many, I didn`t managed to watch all I wanted, because I also liked to walk around the EF and meet people.
Dealer`s Den was nice too and I used up to much money...

What I didn`t like was the article about bronies in the EF journal... I didn`t sound positive at all, even if it said, that bronies will be accepted... The arguments against bronies was ridiculous too, like that pony world is too small, but really you could also make pony story about ponies in Mars or wherever you like it, especially if you use your own pony character. Also that the new MLP is not the original is not really an argument, I think the new series is not really something like a remake of the old series, it`s something entirely new, sure it`s based on pony characters from before, but I don`t think that make it somehow less original, it`s just a different viewpoint of the ponyworld.
Anyway this article really annoyed me and I think it wouldn`t be written, if MLP is not that popular now. I can understand that people, who don`t like MLP can get annoyed of it, but please bring better arguments than this against ponies... Anyway since there also people, who make their fursona after animation series/movie, nothing really speaks against pony to be furry too, or else Lion King Fans also as much displaced in the furry fandom as MLP-Fans...
Ah yes, reminds me on the argument, you can`t be in two fandoms, that the stupidest thing I ever heard... But it`s not the first time I encounter this, many people seems also not to like, when you are an anime fan the same time and furry too. I didn`t know, you can have just one interest...

It was nice meeting old and new friends. ^^

Hmm, for me fursuitdance was not too loud, not to loud with fursuithead nor without.

I definitely will try to attend next year`s EF.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Blaster-Hedgie on 06.09.2012, 00:47:57
What I didn`t like was the article about bronies in the EF journal... I didn`t sound positive at all, even if it said, that bronies will be accepted... The arguments against bronies was ridiculous too, like that pony world is too small, but really you could also make pony story about ponies in Mars or wherever you like it, especially if you use your own pony character. Also that the new MLP is not the original is not really an argument, I think the new series is not really something like a remake of the old series, it`s something entirely new, sure it`s based on pony characters from before, but I don`t think that make it somehow less original, it`s just a different viewpoint of the ponyworld.
Anyway this article really annoyed me and I think it wouldn`t be written, if MLP is not that popular now. I can understand that people, who don`t like MLP can get annoyed of it, but please bring better arguments than this against ponies... Anyway since there also people, who make their fursona after animation series/movie, nothing really speaks against pony to be furry too, or else Lion King Fans also as much displaced in the furry fandom as MLP-Fans...
Ah yes, reminds me on the argument, you can`t be in two fandoms, that the stupidest thing I ever heard... But it`s not the first time I encounter this, many people seems also not to like, when you are an anime fan the same time and furry too. I didn`t know, you can have just one interest...

The 'My Little Brony.... Or is it Furry' article (co-written by me) was written purely as an amusing play on how the world currently is. A lot of fans at Bronycon in NY completely deny they're in the Fur fandom, but worship MLP like a religion, whereas others are happy to be in it. Myself personally, I actually like the show, and I can see why it has such a large fanbase, but I wouldn't call myself a Brony, even though others would refer to me as one simply for watching the show.
I apologise if it seemed unkind, but it was just meant to be funny. No one said anything to myself, the editor, or any of the other writers at the con about it, so we assumed it had gone down well with everyone.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Kanrei on 06.09.2012, 11:10:41
Oh ok, I see, unfortunality many furries arguments like this, not only in cause of bronies. (Especially the argument with just being in one fandom, I did heard in case, that I`m anime-fan and can`t be a furry..) So maybe I`m a  little bit oversensitive to it, but it did sound more like serious than sarcastic or funny or something.
^^; I didn`t say on the con anything either to you, but I don`t really know, who the people are who write it, so I decided I will write it here after the con.

Anyway, I`m not that annoyed about it, I`m just generally annoyed about ponyhaters and that there have always mention it (have there nothing better to do, than showing all the time what their hate...), but I do understand that for some furries it can indeed be annoying to have so much pony around them, especially when there do not like it.
I did also not know that some Bronies don`t declare them as furry, but I think it`s ok since there maybe really interest in that only, maybe it`s like these people, who made fursuits for cosplay, some of them don`t even really know what furry is.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Blaster-Hedgie on 06.09.2012, 11:43:27
Oh ok, I see, unfortunality many furries arguments like this, not only in cause of bronies. (Especially the argument with just being in one fandom, I did heard in case, that I`m anime-fan and can`t be a furry..) So maybe I`m a  little bit oversensitive to it, but it did sound more like serious than sarcastic or funny or something.
^^; I didn`t say on the con anything either to you, but I don`t really know, who the people are who write it, so I decided I will write it here after the con.

Anyway, I`m not that annoyed about it, I`m just generally annoyed about ponyhaters and that there have always mention it (have there nothing better to do, than showing all the time what their hate...), but I do understand that for some furries it can indeed be annoying to have so much pony around them, especially when there do not like it.
I did also not know that some Bronies don`t declare them as furry, but I think it`s ok since there maybe really interest in that only, maybe it`s like these people, who made fursuits for cosplay, some of them don`t even really know what furry is.

Do you really think Ponyhaters would have put that much humor into an article? Also, try reading it in Twilight Sparkle's voice, it really gets funny then.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: TraxSwe on 06.09.2012, 14:30:30
Giving my 3 cents to the feedback section, for what it's worth.

This was more or less my first EF. Last EF i did not even know what the furry fandom was, what a fursuiter was and what to expect. Stumbled upon a live journal from an attendee about 1 month prior to EF. Sounded about right and i just booked the tickets. Got hooked from that point.


+ I liked the fursuit lounge. Good fans and cleaver inventions to dry your suit. Was also always stocked with water and some green water :-P
+ Fursuiter charity runs. That was fun and also glad that new ideas on how to sell the otter noses were accepted.
+ The chariot was a nice. Both to see and also to ride ^^
+ Uncle Kage
+ Coffee-to-go
+ Good information about the different panels/events.
+ Was a blast fursuiting at EF. Friendly people and not hard at all to get an elevator spot.
+ Events started in time (except for the fursuit games that got heavily delayed)
+ EF Prime
+ Food discounts.
+ Parade was interesting and also a bit confusing at the same time. Got stuck at a crossing watching the other parade and people started debating about if we were late/early etc.
+ Pawpet show. Was slightly to long and a bit to serious. Need more humor =)
+ Fursuit games
+ Possibility to make events like the freeze mob. To bad that the 2 major events melted into one and thus people stayed in the main stage.

- Having the fursuit games after the Rock concert. I would have preferred the other way around for the simple reason that people can sit and take a beer at the rock concert while listening to good music. It's easier to get people to that attraction at 22:30 rather then the poor fursuit games that got pushed to over midnight. Fursuit games should be held much earlier to attract a bigger crowd.
- Downside with the fursuit lounge was, as people already said, lack of hangers. People just kept their heads/paws/tails/suits on there forever. Maybe arrange dual-hangers for the suits?
- Dealers den. Saw Alpha_Ki's post earlier. One suggestion is to spread out the popular artists over the two dens. Thus reducing ques. Another idea would be to throw out the hotel restaurant and occupy that space, to expensive anyway.
- Crazy lady looked at my name badge when i was suiting and then came to the hotel on Saturday and forced the staff to call my room at 9. *shrugs* I don't mind my name being shown on the badge but PLEASE write my furry nickname A LOT bigger.
- Rude staff members in the lobby-bar
- Internet needs to be a lot faster and more reliable both in the lobby and also in the hotel room. I bought an hour in the hotel room for 8 EUR and most of the time i could not even connect to it.
- More check-in counters during "rush-hours"
- Even it out a little more between what you get as a sponsor and a super sponsor.
- Should have a special deal on normal Coca-Cola from the lobby-bar. A large coca-cola costed 5 EUR =/
+1 Lightfox: "- There was a guy who kept wondering with an incomplete fursuit, both in the lobby and the dances, even at the dead dog party: he had a full body on, but instead of a head, he just had sun glasses and a cap with ears on top of them. At first, i thought it was a fursuiter who was cooling off, but it seems it really was his costume, since i never saw him with a real fursuit head on. I know this is highly subjective, but i really found this disturbing and not really pleasant to look at, especially when your gaze switches from a traditionnal fursuit - no matter the quality - to one that's missing the most important part."
- "Leitungswasser" 1 EUR. Sorry i am from Sweden and here it's more or less a custom that tap water is free. Getting room temperature water for 1 EUR was not a good deal.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: yagfox on 06.09.2012, 14:53:54
Minor thing, I did miss the sausage carts in the lobby, Any trip to Germany is very much about the sausage, and free and easy access to sausage is important. I know burgersaurus rex was available at the bar, but sometimes all you want is a little sausagey snack.

Not really a deal breaker, but if there was ever talk of bringing back the sausage men, then it's a +1 from me! :)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Blaster-Hedgie on 06.09.2012, 15:09:23
Any trip to Germany is very much about the sausage, and free and easy access to sausage is important

Innuendo! Get your innuendo here!
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: yagfox on 06.09.2012, 15:12:04
Innuendo! Get your innuendo here!

I know not what you mean! I take my quest for sausage very seriously! ;)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Blaster-Hedgie on 06.09.2012, 15:28:25
Innuendo! Get your innuendo here!

I know not what you mean! I take my quest for sausage very seriously! ;)

Drowning in lewd jokes I can't make!!!
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cheetah on 06.09.2012, 16:46:44
Can we please stay on topic? :-). Thanks :-)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Drachetto on 06.09.2012, 16:50:01
EF18 was awesome! The hotel itself and the rooms are always great, and the usual entire convention organization, main events and panels are always really appreciable!

Special greets to:
+ The niceness and kindness of the staff members which I told with, thank you for that;
+ The niceness and kindness of the security men I noticed with me and other people, thank you for that;
+ Fursuit Lounge: Impressive the drying system and everything was well organized for the better fursuit dressing/undressing/resting (apart some very minimal problems that are being discussed in the relative thread).

Some things you could sort out next year:
- EF Wi-Fi: latest year was perfect, always very fast. Instead this year I noticed so much lag and many attemtps to connect;
- Dealers Den: there was always a long queue for the first room and so few people for the second, you should divide better famous and not-famous artists/vendors in the two rooms;
- Some drink prices: A large glass of water with ice... 5 euro! :'( Unbereable! Some large glasses of beer were cheaper (3 euro), maybe the next year also some non-alchoolic drinks (like CocaCola) could be cheaper like that;
- The Message-Board: I'm happy it was introduced this year, but the final position was far for the normal walking paths (aside one of the back elevator). So despite that many messages appeared all around the hotel lobby. Maybe next year you should use one bigger and put it in a better place, easy to see.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: MOW on 06.09.2012, 21:28:49
- More check-in counters during "rush-hours"

Early arrival was originally meant for setup and such. Which also includes the registration team.
We already had more people queueing up before the registration team was even completely there than we checked in on the whole first official day of the con!

Also, it happened again frequently that people happily waited in line at the first counter, ignoring the other open counters.

Quote
- "Leitungswasser" 1 EUR. Sorry i am from Sweden and here it's more or less a custom that tap water is free. Getting room temperature water for 1 EUR was not a good deal.

So it's different here. What do you think the complaints would be like if they had Swedish prices for alcoholic beverages?
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Ragear on 06.09.2012, 21:40:06
ok, most's been said and debated, for good or bad. Though I was not able to attend eberything I had on my agenda, I did not have a feel of having missed something. One thing I'd love to see: at i.e. confuzzled you have an overview of the furnames/ nicks which were going to attend. This gives you a good idea of whom to expect, and I think this would not be in violation of stringent german data protection laws? so, please make a survey of attending furs available. If data protection is an issue: include an opt-out/ -in button at the registration.
I am a bit short sighted and rely a bit on badges to not forget fur's names. Bigger print of the nick on the badges would be nice.
I just hope that all the wonderful con-ops furs just don't get mauled&eaten by the monster Eurofurence they've created...

cu@EF19

Ragear
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Jake R on 06.09.2012, 21:48:43
Bigger print of the nick on the badges would be nice.

Completely forgot - I fully second this. I feel like an ass every time I bend over, staring at someone's belly (or, for shorter people... you know what I mean) just to read a name. =)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: SlyCat on 06.09.2012, 21:51:30
Positives:
* My last time at EF, EF16 I was disappointed by the lack of seats in the lobby so I loved the fact that you had lower tables with chairs where the tall round tables were previously. Very good for socialising and artists :)
* Having free wifi. I know people had issues with it but it was free which really helped to keep in touch with other folk at the con via Twitter
* The EF app was a great idea. Looking forward to future versions with the various enhancements which have been suggested :)
* Was surprised that the lifts didn't break down in my experience while at the con this year. Very impressed considering my experience of EF16 :P
* Great job on the discounts and offers on nearby food places.  Certainly helped with variety with what to eat every day.  Next year, can we have a deal on the Venezia Gelateria Italiana Caffè place in the mall? :D
* Fursuit lounge has to have been the best I have ever seen.  Plenty of fans and some very innovative drying solutions.  Despite it's popularity, I always found somewhere to dry off my head.  Complimentary Febreeze was a nice touch too!

Negatives:
* Not directly the con's fault but I despised the pillows in the hotel rooms. They didn't provide any support at all and ended up giving me a neck injury which meant I had to miss the fursuit photo and dance.
* Again with the rooms, the shower temperature could not decide what it wanted to be. Is there a knack for getting it to work properly? Seemed everyone I know had similar problems with it going from freezing to scolding hot and back again.  To the hotel's credit though, the busted shower head I had when I first checked in was fixed within 10-15 minutes of me reporting it.
* Been said a million times but again, the soda and water prices were insane! €5 for a pint of Coke was bad enough but €3 for 200ml is really taking advantage of a captive crowd.  I realise you could go out and get your own drinks from Kaufland or whatever but when the beer is cheaper than the soft drinks, it's no surprise people drink themselves silly.  I appreciated the water in the fursuit lounge but could really have done with more places to get free water to re-hydrate.
* Would love to see more DJs getting the opportunity to perform like with ConFuzzled where the DJs have timeslots.  I found the BBF dance somewhat repetitive and lacking variety which having changes in DJ would allow.  Would also be nice for there to have been a dance Friday night after the concert if possible.
* Security on doors seemed to vary widely.  I was quite concerned with random members of the public (not con goers) popping in to the fursuit lounge and elsewhere.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Sithy on 06.09.2012, 22:20:36
Regarding the pillows, there were extra pillows in the big closet. I put one of those on top of the other pillow which I'd folded in half, that helped :)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: SlyCat on 06.09.2012, 22:23:37
Regarding the pillows, there were extra pillows in the big closet. I put one of those on top of the other pillow which I'd folded in half, that helped :)

Yeah, that helped, but only learnt about that after the damage had been done :-/
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Bigwig on 06.09.2012, 23:11:35
Thanks for EF18, some things I like to mention

- I hurried after the fursuit-walk to make it to the artshow at Friday 17:15 getting the wrong information by security there it closes at 17:00.
  Additionally I got told the trick to apply for a bidder stickers to be able to stay during the closing even when not bidding. Just what I'll do next year...
- WLAN offered stable connect but usually the DHCP server was not answering even though you had 16-Bit netmask. Packet loss rates of 50% may
  give a clue why - got better the next days. Maybe additionally offering 5 GHz WLan in the Lobby would help?
- Write furry names on badges readable from far. Many furries have small names, use a bigger font for those 3/4 with short names.
- walking a 20% ramp uphill and if just for 10 meters is difficult to suiters using velcro attached sandals
- Block the traffic when it gets dangerous for suiters! I felt highly alerted in a fursuit with 5 rows of fursuiters behind me possibly not seeing too much
  with a tram driving by with 10 km/h and just half a meter away from me. If necessary stop it and don't try to give way when there is not enough of it.
  It could not have stopped in time if someone would have stumbled due to heat or backpreasure.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Tsanawo on 06.09.2012, 23:33:39
Bigger print of the nick on the badges would be nice.

Completely forgot - I fully second this. I feel like an ass every time I bend over, staring at someone's belly (or, for shorter people... you know what I mean) just to read a name. =)

You could just ask... ? I dunnow. I'm actually fine with the size of the badges as they are printed now. :)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cairyn on 06.09.2012, 23:44:35
Additionally I got told the trick to apply for a bidder stickers to be able to stay during the closing even when not bidding. Just what I'll do next year...

Please, if you do not intend to bid anyway, do not attend the closing. There is a huge number of people in the room already, and every extra may be blocking the way, preventing the quick progressing of the closing, even causing the doors to be closed for others (who may actually want to bid) because the maximum occupancy is exceeded.

The reason why only people with bidsheets are allowed in the room during closing is not because we love so much to annoy guests, or we need to get rid of printed bid stickers. It's to keep the attendance at a limit, to protect the art (some of it actually breakable) and the safety of our guests. If everybody undermines that purpose, we might as well drop the rule - but then we'd need to implement other measures which may be even more awkward.

Be fair to others, help playing it safe  :)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Jake R on 06.09.2012, 23:47:43
You could just ask... ? I dunnow. I'm actually fine with the size of the badges as they are printed now. :)
That would work if I wasn't so bad with remembering names. Asking a person for the 3rd or 4th time in 1-2 days makes me feel like even more of an ass. =P

Knowing I'm not the only one at the con with this problem (I've heard very many people say the same thing) helps with feeling like less of an ass, but then again, it can also be seen as another reason to indeed increase the size. xD
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Bigwig on 06.09.2012, 23:51:01
Knowing I'm not the only one at the con with this problem (I've heard very many people say the same thing) helps with feeling like less of an ass, but then again, it can also be seen as another reason to indeed increase the size. xD

Exactly the same here!
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Itchigo Icetalons on 07.09.2012, 00:16:28
I think having names that are easily readable from outside the comfort zone without bending over or sqautting would result in keycards the size of your hand. Not a good idea. That's why most people get a personalized badge up front or in the dealers den.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Codewolf on 07.09.2012, 00:17:40
- Block the traffic when it gets dangerous for suiters! I felt highly alerted in a fursuit with 5 rows of fursuiters behind me possibly not seeing too much
  with a tram driving by with 10 km/h and just half a meter away from me. If necessary stop it and don't try to give way when there is not enough of it.
  It could not have stopped in time if someone would have stumbled due to heat or backpreasure.
we are legally not allowed to stop the traffic, the security team and the response team did as much as we could (we even managed to teleport a few times :P) to try and get to the next road in time for the majority of the fursuiters :)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: BHO on 07.09.2012, 08:21:50
I hope I am not out of place to ask this here, but I have a question (a request rather) for the art show team. I didn't attend in person, but I had an agent handling my art at the con side. I met him yesterday and we talked a bit about how things went for him and I got to know that he had to relocate one of my pictures to another panel because mine got too crowded. Now I don't mind the relocation part as such, I just try really hard to prepare my sent-in art as good as I can to leave my agent with as little work as possible, which also means I prepare my panel at home and try to fit all my art on it. There is just the thing that I keep forgetting that there is of course the supporting wooden frame of the panel on its back that takes away a few cm of usable space.

Would it somehow be possible to measure how big the actually usable panel space is for those who use the panel space provided to the fullest? I know one shouldn't cram the panels _too_ hard but what works on your bedroom floor doesn't necessarily work out in the end in the art show. I just really wish to avoid any trouble for my agents and the art show staff (as I have been told my relocated/ removed picture caused some confusion).

So here is the question if there is any chance to add this bit of information (or maybe just an explicit reminder) in the art show section of the upcoming homepage that there are areas of the panel that can not be used. :) If this is not my place to ask, I apologize!
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cairyn on 07.09.2012, 10:40:38
There is just the thing that I keep forgetting that there is of course the supporting wooden frame of the panel on its back that takes away a few cm of usable space.

Would it somehow be possible to measure how big the actually usable panel space is for those who use the panel space provided to the fullest? I know one shouldn't cram the panels _too_ hard but what works on your bedroom floor doesn't necessarily work out in the end in the art show. I just really wish to avoid any trouble for my agents and the art show staff (as I have been told my relocated/ removed picture caused some confusion).

Well... while the front plate with the holes has a measure of 2x1 meters per full panel, it rests on a framework of beams. That means that in a (ca.) five centimeter outer frame around the panel, and on a five centimeter wide vertical area in the middle of the panel, the holes are not usable (the framework is generally built like [|] well with wider sections of course ;D )

Normally, the bottom and side framework doesn't really matter because you won't hang the images that close to these edges of the panel (okay, with your very small Critter Portraits you may actually have run into that limitation), but the top framework actually blocks these 5cm. In addition, it depends on where on your image the eye is where the hook connects - the hook itself has at least 2cm height (I can only guess, have no hook here...) so the hole for your hook needs to be even higher.

Normally you should be safe if you leave 6-7 cm empty on the top of the panel, look out that very small exhibits do not hang at the right or left side or collect in the middle of the panel, and have a few centimeters of maneuvering space to get around any framework support beams.

One caveat: The panels have been built over many years by different people and even different organizations. There are a few panels that use a slightly different framework. We cannot guarantee what panel type you get, so ultimately be prepared to shift your images a few centimeters to accommodate.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: BHO on 07.09.2012, 11:24:33
So basically I should just keep in mind that there might be a 6 cm wide border and a 6cm area in the middle in which I might not be able to pose art?

Since I am a master of bringing art smaller than the bidsheets (as you already noticed) I guess I am comming across new and innovative panel problems over the time. *g* But instead of just bitching I want at least to try finding a solution for this. :)

I will try to keep all this in mind for the next time I should need it. Do you think it's wise or even necessary to add this kind of information to the homepage next year or am I the only one being a pest again? XD

Also thanks for the super fast reply! :D
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Ralesk on 07.09.2012, 11:30:41
Cairyn:

Last year I had an expensive (and borrowed) camera with me, and felt rather uncomfortable with leaving my stuff outside.  This year that wasn't the case, but there's been even more non-congoers in the lobby than the years before, and so I felt uncomfortable with different reasons.  So here we go, I'll bring this up again: could we get a single table next to the door in the art show room, inside, on (and under) which we could put our valuables?  There's always a bunch of security checking badges, so this would put valuables in a place where the public cannot go, and one of them could check that people indeed remove their cameras (etc.) before moving on — the desk otherwise doesn't need to be accounted for, and I doubt that any con-goer would take someone else's stuff (but if they do, we can then know where to look).
Title: Seating time vs Start time
Post by: ysegrim on 07.09.2012, 12:23:59
First of all, EF was absolutely great! I went into a state of sheer extacy on Wednesday, and (except for a few lack-of-sleep induced turbulences) hardly ever went down until the con ended!

One thing I found quite confusing (though no one else has commented on this yet) was that different EF media were not consistent in the start time announced for events: At least EFprime was announcing the seating time (which usually was 30min before an event started), whereas other media (pocket planner, Daily, ...) announced the start time itself. Also, "Excel-style" timetables never fails to confuse me, esp. if all horizontal lines have the same size -- is the time written on the left side supposed to label the line below it (which is typical of Western typography) or the line above it (which is what you would do if the lines are to denote boxes)? You would do a great favor to me if these time tables could be layouted in a less ambiguous way, or repeated in the boxes.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: silverfoxwolf on 07.09.2012, 13:20:25
Greetings, I have a bit of feedback for you.

Schedule - Sheduling at the con was extremely poorly done, there were basically two blocks of all the panels so rather then being able to attend a few, it was a case of one or nothing. Just because I fursuit doesn't mean I won't want to go to panels about other things. It would have been so much better if they had been placed to run two or three events and then a next set of things spread out better.

If the intention was to provide a lunch or dinner break it's been my experience that people will take them when they want to. Forcing things into a narrow band creates an overload on the food outlets both in and around the convention leading to delays in serving.

In addition, the fursuit games preliminaries were scheduled at the same time as the fursuit photoshoot. A bit of a clash within an interest really. Also to put the fursuit games at 22:30 was pointless, I really wanted to go in for them, but that was too late really. In the end it became around 00:00 for a start because of the late start of the concert. So some potential audience would have either gone to the bar or bed and that would have not really been any fun to try and entertain people.

To have nothing on during the pawpets show was a bit disappointing too, not everyone wants to see puppets and such so something as an alternative would have really been nice to see.

Also, there was no closing ceremony or feedback session? I would have thought that they would have been rather good things to see. Although I am told there was somthing said at the end of pawpets, which connects to my previous point.

Photoshoot: I think it has already been mentioned about the fursuit photoshoot not having enough spots. To restrict things to ten minute slots is bound to create a bottleneck on slots being free for people. Some might want to have more time for larger amounts of pictures. So perhaps one day of the full slots with longer hours and then two days of turn up and shoot things would give far more chance for people to have pictures taken. Of course the most interesting thing for me was on the last day of the photoshoot I turned up an hour early to make sure I was able to get a slot. When they were ready to sign up we were told there was only twelve slots left. I was first in the queue and there were already three names on the list. That's just not on, if you're giving people a one day sign up each day, how can it be morally right to give slots away prior to this? We ere also asked to consider sharing our slots to give more people a 
change at getting photos. Not really fair on us when others were able to take advantage of the full ten minute slots. Now even though I was on the last slot of the scheduled day, we were delayed whilst others had some shots taken and the film crew came in. I started to overheat and went to go and cool down in the suit lounge only to find the fans had been turned down for the filming.

Stairs: After the delayed group photo I went to take the stairs to my room as there was many suiters that would need to use the lifts more then I did. I went up the right hand staircase that was signed for all floors only to find that all the accommodation doors were locked. Coming back down I told a passing staff/security member who said they were only for the C level. This is not what the sign said so I showed him directly and he removed the sign. Details like that really need checking first before putting signs up. Before finding him though I naturally went to conops to tell them it was locked, only to find conops left unstaffed. With the amount of staff EF has I found this very surprising.

Art auction: During the art auction all of the runners were handling art without using any protective gloves to stop marks and such being put on to the canvas or art frame. Could this please be looked at for next year? I found it interesting to note that the screens showed uncencored versions of the artwork being sold. Not everyone wants to see that sort of thing and it would be nice not to have it enlarged up there.

Housekeeping: I don't know what happened with them, but the room servicing seemed to be getting later and later and they kept missing items needing to be done. We had our cups cleared away and not replaced on one day, the bin not emptied and beds not done until gone 18:00. For a four star hotel this was rather a surprising lapse in quality of service.

Hotel space: The hotel itself was ogf a good standard and the rooms were certainly spacious enough for everything to be free moving. I never had to wait that long at the bars or for information from the hotel staff.

Dealers Den: Security was controlling the numbers into the dealers den quite loosely it seemed with several coming out sometimes before people were being let in. It took thirty minutes for me to make it to the front of the queue and then ten minutes before I could get into the room. The den istself seemed to be rather spacious and could have accommodated more people at a time to keep the queue down.

Sponsors: I don't really think as a sponsor I got value for money. Essentially there was a coin and a tshirt provided as well as a late arriving pin. But supersponsors got the early entry into the den and exclusive events and flask. Now I really think sponsors should have at least gotten early entry into the den, I'm not bothered about getting better seating for events as for the most part the main stage events were not of interest to me.

Overall the I would say the social experience was excellent, but the con experience was mediocre after all the hype and build up I'd heard about EF before.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: SouthPaw on 07.09.2012, 13:21:00
* Been said a million times but again, the soda and water prices were insane! €5 for a pint of Coke was bad enough but €3 for 200ml is really taking advantage of a captive crowd.  I realise you could go out and get your own drinks from Kaufland or whatever but when the beer is cheaper than the soft drinks, it's no surprise people drink themselves silly.

Sadly, if you go into any bar, soft drinks are almost always more expensive than beer, it's not specific to the Maritim. The current London meet venue, for example, charges £2.65 (3,33€) for a 330ml Coke, with pints (568ml) of draught beer from £4.00 (5,02€).
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cairyn on 07.09.2012, 13:22:07
Since I am a master of bringing art smaller than the bidsheets (as you already noticed) I guess I am comming across new and innovative panel problems over the time. *g* But instead of just bitching I want at least to try finding a solution for this. :)

I will try to keep all this in mind for the next time I should need it. Do you think it's wise or even necessary to add this kind of information to the homepage next year or am I the only one being a pest again? XD

We could leave a square empty on the bidsheet, so you can put the art inside :-) No really, I would recommend a table to put these tiny things on, but then a really small item is easily pocketed. You may want a table nevertheless to put the bidsheets on. The people who sell magnets do this.

I have made a note to include the information on what holes are usable with the photo guide. We may expand this section even more next year (currently I have made no new photos).
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cairyn on 07.09.2012, 13:39:17
Cairyn:
Last year I had an expensive (and borrowed) camera with me, and felt rather uncomfortable with leaving my stuff outside. [...]

Yes, that topic is still unresolved, although it is discussed every year, especially with a growing number of people in the overflow hotels. This does not just affect the art show. However, just putting up a table with no mechanism to track the items is not suitable: if your stuff gets handed out to the wrong person who just keeps it, you would be rightfully pissed, even if the table is announced as "leave stuff at your own risk". And with a large crowd like this, I would not guarantee that it doesn't ever happen. So, a more elaborate solution is necessary.

However, I need to leave this discussion to ConOps and Security, since the Art Show itself cannot provide the space or personnel to man an item desk.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: silverfoxwolf on 07.09.2012, 13:48:37
Why can the art show not provide space? That room was more then large enough to facilitate two desks for items to be stores upon. A simple cloakroom ticket would mean only the person with the ticket could obtain the items back again. As security is already manning the door I don't see how it would need to have any more staff then is already there.

Leaving cameras on the floor was a bad idea from the start, I suggested to Cueball that some tables be placed there, within a few minutes he had obtained some and put them outside the door to keep things on. It's not difficult or expensive to provide basic facilities.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cairyn on 07.09.2012, 14:14:04
Why can the art show not provide space? That room was more then large enough to facilitate two desks for items to be stores upon. A simple cloakroom ticket would mean only the person with the ticket could obtain the items back again. As security is already manning the door I don't see how it would need to have any more staff then is already there.

Leaving cameras on the floor was a bad idea from the start, I suggested to Cueball that some tables be placed there, within a few minutes he had obtained some and put them outside the door to keep things on. It's not difficult or expensive to provide basic facilities.

It is unfortunately not possible to just put a table somewhere in a room, you need to permanently man it and control access to it. Security in front of the door cannot handle a table that is inside the show, so any item tables need to be outside as well, or separately staffed. It also needs to handle a peak number of items, which probably will happen during the Closing, where there are many security members already occupied with other things, so the personnel situation matters.

I do agree however that it is a good idea to have an item desk at least in a basic version, I will look into the matter some more, although it will most likely stay an "at your own risk" thing.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Coadey on 07.09.2012, 14:21:55
This was my first EF, and first con outside the US.  My husband hadn't been since EF1, so we didn't really know what to expect.

+ It was amazing!  So many incredible suits, activities and friendly furs from around the world.
+ The venue was brilliant, clean and easy to travel to.
+ Courteous, professional con staff.
+ Free Wi-Fi; a life-line for friends without a mobile.
+ Good scheduling, but public announcement reminders would be nice.
+ The con book was beautiful and extensive.
+ Big Blue Dance!

- More coordination to help everyone get into the theme.  Maybe costume pieces for sale/rent, or a workshop?  A bonus for those who get into it? By the way, who had that amazing suit of armor??

- Vegan eating options were scarce.  We had German friends who could help (hugs to Martin and Chieron!) but more con support would be really appreciated (info in the book, coordination with the venue - make/mark options on menus). I'd be happy to help.

- As Bigwig said, please use larger fonts on the badges or offer name tag stickers, so you can see who someone is from more than 6 inches away.  :3

Really looking forward to Confuzzled (http://www.confuzzled.org.uk) and EF19. 
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Nightfox on 07.09.2012, 15:43:25

Sponsors: I don't really think as a sponsor I got value for money. Essentially there was a coin and a tshirt provided as well as a late arriving pin. But supersponsors got the early entry into the den and exclusive events and flask. Now I really think sponsors should have at least gotten early entry into the den, I'm not bothered about getting better seating for events as for the most part the main stage events were not of interest to me.


Please don't get me wrong but if you "demand" something in return you should not choose sponsor or supersponsor.

In the first place you are a sponsor to support the con and therefore we are very very grateful, we need sponsors.

But the gifts and privileges you get are just a bonus, nothing more.

We can't offer seats for sponsors and supersponsoers cause we would have to reserve 300 seats for every event or let in 300 people first.

If you consider being a  sponsor or supersponsor for your personal value then you should consider just the basic membership cause we will never be able to fulfill your expectations.

Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Gero on 07.09.2012, 15:58:33
* Been said a million times but again, the soda and water prices were insane! €5 for a pint of Coke was bad enough but €3 for 200ml is really taking advantage of a captive crowd.  I realise you could go out and get your own drinks from Kaufland or whatever but when the beer is cheaper than the soft drinks, it's no surprise people drink themselves silly.

Sadly, if you go into any bar, soft drinks are almost always more expensive than beer, it's not specific to the Maritim. The current London meet venue, for example, charges £2.65 (3,33€) for a 330ml Coke, with pints (568ml) of draught beer from £4.00 (5,02€).
I can understand that since beer is so cheap in germany but still youre declaming a "Drink responsible" police and thus we would choice none alcoholic beverages should be promoted, not robbed. From what I can recal I got 0.5 litres off coke in the shop for 0.5 euro (or something like it) but in the bar I had to pay 3 euro for 0.2 litres, and 5 euro for 1 pint. I can undertand that the bar would like to earn a few cent as well but something like 1.5 euro for the 0.2 litres and 3 euro for the pint would have been much better. Now I can imagine a whole lot off people baught theyre drinks in the shop and drink it in rooms instead of bars, and thats not promoting filled con areas, are it? ???
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cheetah on 07.09.2012, 16:07:55
Okay, I had a very long and elaborate answer typed out, but then I accitendtly hit the "back" button on the mouse and all was gone. Whoever at Logitech thought that it was a great idea to put a "back" button right next to the left mouse button deserves to be shot.  So I'm answering telegraph style now, I don't feel like wiriting it all out again.

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Schedule - Sheduling at the con was extremely poorly done, there were basically two blocks of all the panels so rather then being able to attend a few, it was a case of one or nothing. Just because I fursuit doesn't mean I won't want to go to panels about other things. It would have been so much better if they had been placed to run two or three events and then a next set of things spread out better.

What you're not taking into account is the room capacity. We need to thin the crowd out by running more events in parallel, otherwise rooms will overcrowd more than they already do.
Funny thing is that later in your posting you apply exactly the opposite reasoning to the restaurants:

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Forcing things into a narrow band creates an overload on the food outlets both in and around the convention leading to delays in serving.

Same thing with the conference rooms. Having events run in 3 rooms rather than 6 at the same time creates the same kind of overload. The dinner break is not an actual "dinner break" though. It's a much needed time buffer to get everything prepared for the evening prime-time programming. We couldn't do it without that buffer. There is a LOT going on behind the scenes during that time. So I'm sorry for the restaurants actually having to work to get their money's worth :)

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In addition, the fursuit games preliminaries were scheduled at the same time as the fursuit photoshoot.

There is simply no other timeslot that would work. We have so many fursuit-related events it's impossible to not have any of them overlap.

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Also to put the fursuit games at 22:30 was pointless, I really wanted to go in for them, but that was too late really.


Where else would you have put it, with the entire afternoon being taken by the fursuit parade and concert setup going on at the same time?

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In the end it became around 00:00 for a start because of the late start of the concert. So some potential audience would have either gone to the bar or bed and that would have not really been any fun to try and entertain people.

Does it occur to you that sometimes shit juts happens? In this case, dance contest overran 35 minutes because of technical failures, and then during concert rehearsals, a member of the camera crew slipped and fell off his platform, needing attention by our paramedics. I hope you do not mind that we put the well-being of our volunteers above our scheduling.

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To have nothing on during the pawpets show was a bit disappointing too, not everyone wants to see puppets and such so something as an alternative would have really been nice to see.

I wouldn't mind. Find my volunteers who want to run stuff competing with the pawpetshow, and I'll give them timeslots. In the last 10 years, there weren't many. Maybe YOU want to run an event?

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Also, there was no closing ceremony or feedback session? I would have thought that they would have been rather good things to see. Although I am told there was somthing said at the end of pawpets, which connects to my previous point.

No closing ceremony: Not possible because no time on saturday, and no more room on sunday. Just not worth it.

No feedback session: Because the internet exists. We get enough feedback as it is without binding staffers on sunday, when everybody is 100% busy breaking down and cleaning up.

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Stairs: After the delayed group photo I went to take the stairs to my room as there was many suiters that would need to use the lifts more then I did. I went up the right hand staircase that was signed for all floors only to find that all the accommodation doors were locked. Coming back down I told a passing staff/security member who said they were only for the C level.

That was a printing error, but it was corrected during the first day. It was announced correctly at opening ceremonies, and the signs were corrected as soon as we became aware of the error. Sorry for that.

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Before finding him though I naturally went to conops to tell them it was locked, only to find conops left unstaffed. With the amount of staff EF has I found this very surprising.

Con ops is still looking for volunteers to man their office. Would you be up for it? All it takes is missing 100% of the convention, not getting any sleep, working hard all day, and putting up with criticisms like this. But as I can see you are very motivated to improve the situation, I am looking forward to receiving your application for next year's convention!

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Housekeeping: I don't know what happened with them, but the room servicing seemed to be getting later and later and they kept missing items needing to be done. We had our cups cleared away and not replaced on one day, the bin not emptied and beds not done until gone 18:00. For a four star hotel this was rather a surprising lapse in quality of service.

I know what happened with them. Many furries left their rooms in a state of complete mess - crates of beer standing around, dirty clothes strewn all over the floor, giant inflatables taking up all the space, piles of trash on the floor. It took housekeeping on average three times to service a room than it does with normal guests.  Some attendees had to pay extra cleaning fees up to €600 for the removal of bodily fluids and drink spills.

If people do that, naturally, service quality as a whole suffers.

Although, sometimes, leaving a little tip and a small thank you note could make all the difference for the shit housekeeping (quite literally) has to put up with. Be nice to them, and they will be nice to you.

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Sponsors: I don't really think as a sponsor I got value for money.

No you didn't. Because that's not the point of sponsor memberships.

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Overall the I would say the social experience was excellent, but the con experience was mediocre after all the hype and build up I'd heard about EF before.

I'm sorry you had unrealistic expectations, but that's nothing we could have done anything about.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cheetah on 07.09.2012, 16:14:07
I can understand that since beer is so cheap in germany but still youre declaming a "Drink responsible" police and thus we would choice none alcoholic beverages should be promoted, not robbed. From what I can recal I got 0.5 litres off coke in the shop for 0.5 euro (or something like it) but in the bar I had to pay 3 euro for 0.2 litres, and 5 euro for 1 pint. I can undertand that the bar would like to earn a few cent as well but something like 1.5 euro for the 0.2 litres and 3 euro for the pint would have been much better. Now I can imagine a whole lot off people baught theyre drinks in the shop and drink it in rooms instead of bars, and thats not promoting filled con areas, are it? ???

The thing is ... we don't make the drink prices. The hotel does. So, yes, you are right about this conflict of interests. But as long as the bar is at 100% capacity, the hotel has no incentive to lower the prices, and country-wide pricing standards of the maritim group doesn't make it any easier to them to do us any favours in that regard. We've been gnawing on the edges of their price scheme for a while, with the 2.50 Beer in the snack point in the lobby, the cocktail special for 7.50 and the longdrink special for 5, but since the drinks and the food are the REAL profit factors for the hotel, you can only negotiate this in very small steps. So yeah, I do see your point, but it's not easily resolved.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cheetah on 07.09.2012, 16:15:25
We can't offer seats for sponsors and supersponsoers cause we would have to reserve 300 seats for every event or let in 300 people first.

... which, by the way, we actually do :)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cheetah on 07.09.2012, 16:20:36
Why can the art show not provide space? That room was more then large enough to facilitate two desks for items to be stores upon.

Seriously, do you think we're all idiots?

Yes, the room was large enough to facilityte two desks. You're right.

But then, that's not what it takes to run a bag drop for 1300 people.

Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Sithy on 07.09.2012, 16:21:01
Regarding leaving a tip for the cleaners, will they take it if we leave a note specifically stating it's for them? We weren't sure since rules on taking stuff from rooms are so strict (we wanted to leave them stroopwafels as well but apparantly they're not allowed to take them even if we leave a note?)
What helps, btw, is to tidy your room a little each morning. We'd make sure the floor was empty, no items strewn around, nothing in the way. This way, the cleaners can do their job properly and no one gets annoyed :) Didn't take us a lot of time either and got us nice clean beds, towels and floor every day!
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cairyn on 07.09.2012, 16:28:52
Regarding leaving a tip for the cleaners, will they take it if we leave a note specifically stating it's for them? We weren't sure since rules on taking stuff from rooms are so strict (we wanted to leave them stroopwafels as well but apparantly they're not allowed to take them even if we leave a note?)

They will take a tip if it's on the pillow. If it's on the table or nightdesk, they will not recognize it as a tip (and are not allowed to take it). Food, even if it's stroopwafels, is probably not seen as an appropriate tip.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Sithy on 07.09.2012, 16:31:33
I meant to include them with the tip xD Not on their own of course. Thanks for the info, I'll do it like that next year :)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: BHO on 07.09.2012, 16:33:20
We could leave a square empty on the bidsheet, so you can put the art inside :-) No really, I would recommend a table to put these tiny things on, but then a really small item is easily pocketed. You may want a table nevertheless to put the bidsheets on. The people who sell magnets do this.

I have made a note to include the information on what holes are usable with the photo guide. We may expand this section even more next year (currently I have made no new photos).


Careful, I might take you on that offer! ;D *laughs*  The problem is I actually know there are are tables there... but for some reason this option is never apparent to me when I do my planing, which is of course nobody's fault but my own...  After all I wouldn't need to put the smallest of art down there, but I certainly had and will have photosized frames which usually come with a supporting foot so that they can actually stand. So that's a good plan, indeed.

Awesome! Thank you so much for this! Maybe we can take pictures during the MMC art show (I don't think the panels will be used before that again?). Maybe it's a bit late, but still a few months before EF.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 07.09.2012, 16:37:23
errr, what!?
I have been leaving tips on the desk every year since FE13 with a paper written "for the hotel staff, etc" and they would never get it?
f***!


They will take a tip if it's on the pillow. If it's on the table or nightdesk, they will not recognize it as a tip (and are not allowed to take it). Food, even if it's stroopwafels, is probably not seen as an appropriate tip.

Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cairyn on 07.09.2012, 16:42:30
Awesome! Thank you so much for this! Maybe we can take pictures during the MMC art show (I don't think the panels will be used before that again?). Maybe it's a bit late, but still a few months before EF.

Well, we do have that photo guide, don't know whether you've seen it:
http://www.eurofurence.org/EF18/policies_artshownewcomer.html
To show the actual usable holes, I would need to have a photo of the disassembled framework, I guess.
If you like, you could make photos of your art hanging from the highest available hole... I'm not at MMC, as always.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: BigBlueFox on 07.09.2012, 16:46:08
errr, what!?
I have been leaving tips on the desk every year since FE13 with a paper written "for the hotel staff, etc" and they would never get it?
f***!


They will take a tip if it's on the pillow. If it's on the table or nightdesk, they will not recognize it as a tip (and are not allowed to take it). Food, even if it's stroopwafels, is probably not seen as an appropriate tip.



You should be able to tell. If it was gone after housekeeping was there, then they got it. :)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cairyn on 07.09.2012, 16:47:07
errr, what!?
I have been leaving tips on the desk every year since FE13 with a paper written "for the hotel staff, etc" and they would never get it?

I tried to leave a tip on the nightstand the first night in the Maritim three years ago, and it was left untouched. I asked the hotel staff, and they told me it's customary to leave it on the pillow, etc. (I'm not a fan of that, considering the hygienic state of money, but meh.) I don't remember the Ringberg so well, I guess they were more flexible about that.

If you include a note, it should be fine, although I did have the case this year that the cleaning staff even left the note I put on the pillow. If the money's gone after the cleaning personnel went through, you should be in the green.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: BHO on 07.09.2012, 16:50:07
Well, we do have that photo guide, don't know whether you've seen it:
http://www.eurofurence.org/EF18/policies_artshownewcomer.html
To show the actual usable holes, I would need to have a photo of the disassembled framework, I guess.
If you like, you could make photos of your art hanging from the highest available hole... I'm not at MMC, as always.


I must admit I have not. I think it wasn't wise from me to skip that section because I didn't see myself as a newcommer. My mistake and I promise to improve on that! >_<

I will talk to BP when MMC sets up the art show again, so we can talk about which photos and which information might be useful. :)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 07.09.2012, 16:50:53
You should be able to tell. If it was gone after housekeeping was there, then they got it. :)

well I usually do that the last day before going out of the room for the last time, so I never know what happen next
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Schorse on 07.09.2012, 17:03:42


I know what happened with them. Many furries left their rooms in a state of complete mess - crates of beer standing around, dirty clothes strewn all over the floor, giant inflatables taking up all the space, piles of trash on the floor. It took housekeeping on average three times to service a room than it does with normal guests.  Some attendees had to pay extra cleaning fees up to €600 for the removal of bodily fluids and drink spills.

If people do that, naturally, service quality as a whole suffers.

Although, sometimes, leaving a little tip and a small thank you note could make all the difference for the shit housekeeping (quite literally) has to put up with. Be nice to them, and they will be nice to you.


Well, our room was one which was filled with the big inflatable toys. But there was no problem with the roomservice. They came in and we agreed that they just empty the waste bucket and clean the bath, since the main room was not dirty at all. Everyone was very friendly.

I also have to give a special thanks to the house technican.
My roomie is an engineer and asked if it's possible to see the emergency generator. So we didn't just see that one, but the technican gave us an one hour show of the electrical and water system of the hotel.
Also of the tech room for the pool, which was very helpful to understand and prevent the problems with overflooding we had in the years before.
When we had this little special event at the pool on Friday night (filling the pool with inflatables), the technican came by a few times and kept an eye of the poolsystem. So everything went smoothly without any problems.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Ralesk on 07.09.2012, 17:21:14
But then, that's not what it takes to run a bag drop for 1300 people.

I perfectly understand that running a bag drop for hundreds of people is out of the scope for EF Security, which is exactly why I've been offering these ideas of compromise.

Moving the pile inside the room (to the entrance, nevertheless, but inside) adds more security without severely burdening EF Security.  They can still say we're leaving our stuff at the designated place on our own accord and they have no responsibility if things get lost.  At the same time, the items are by default protected from the public, because the public are – by the workings of the Art Show – filtered out.  One person inside that assures you get rid of your cameras isn't that much of a hassle — the entry guys could be simply split to be on both sides, there's always like three of them lounging around the Art Show entrance anyway.

Pros: almost a non-issue for Security, better conditions for con-goers.
Cons: still a pile, no promises on getting your stuff back. (but certainly isn't worse than now, so we don't care)

Next level: Get a table to put stuff on it or under it.  Don't promise anything more.  Has a one-time setup, and gives bigger comfort to people by making it possible to leave your stuff not in a pile but in a more cultured fashion,

Pros: non-issue for Security, significantly better conditions for con-goers.
Cons: still no guarantee on getting stuff back (again, isn't worse than now).


In short, yes, I know I keep repeating myself, but I really don't expect you guys to run a proper bag drop (if I wanted that, I'd go to the reception), but somehow the topic always curls back to that — all I'd like is to be able to move my stuff to the other side of the door, without any more guarantees or services provided by con staff.  It would be "good enough" and "better than now" — not perfect, but I personally don't care about that.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cheetah on 07.09.2012, 17:27:59
Nah, sorry, if we run a bag drop, we do assume responsibility. Such as, we must make sure that people can only take out what they put in. And you have to keep in mind, there might be queues, so that takes extra crowd control measures. And you need a plan what to do with items left behind. We should either do it right, or not at all, that's my opinion.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: yagfox on 07.09.2012, 18:05:38
Have to say, I very much enjoyed watching the fursuit gameshow this year, I'm not sure if what we were watching was what had been planned, but as entertainment it was absolutely first class, I damned near fell of my chair laughing! :)

Definitely on my watch list for next year! :)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Dhary Montecore on 07.09.2012, 18:12:33
Rest assured that you relentless EF security is working already on a way to provide a item-keep service for you. Just bear with us, you'll see the result at EF19 :3
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cookie on 07.09.2012, 18:36:19
Just because some people didn't have a seating preference that doesn't mean they wanted to end up in as what in the eyes of many, many guests felt like an overflow / 2nd class dealer's den.

From the sheer difference of people in Den 1 vs. Den 2, I am pretty sure revenues in Den 2 were at least an order of magnitude lower than they could have been.  

Yup!
I really like the system of "dealer's den" being separated from the "Artist Alley"... But it's not possible here.
So a bit more of a mix-up between "famous artists and dealers" and us "commoners" would be nice indeed ;p (i'm joking with the "commoners", don't get offended, eh)
I know Alpha did all she could to advertise the second room (and thanks to her 10.000000 times for that), but many people don't really read the conbook until AFTER the con...
 
So yeah, a "mix-up" seems the best solution.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: ANTIcarrot on 07.09.2012, 19:05:04
Would it be possible to remove some tables from the upper corridor next year? It's a good sized corridor, but when you have tables on both sides, and a queue two people wide, and then they start to cluster and talk to their friends, and a fursuiter turns up... You start to edge into negative width. I assume the hotel wants to keep the decorative coffee display, and have some protection for the pictures on one side, but could we only have tables on the picture side? It would double the effective width of the corridor.

The hotel paid wifi was patchy at times this year. It was okay once you got though, but getting a connection took a long time in the lobby area. Strangely the EF wifi had the exact opposite problem. :) Connecting was easy, but often you ended up with nothing but a dead line. I know. I know. It's free. I don't supose simple hardware donation could fix this? :-\

Minor point on the drinks issue... There was cold water in the artists alley. And I assume the fursuiters weren't being charged three euros for each 200ml glass of water? Is this a public area / private function deal?
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 08.09.2012, 00:13:19
maybe just a comment about this:
the storyteller part was awfully long and very very difficult to understand.
I know it is not easy to clearly speak from inside a fursuite head, but wouldnt there be some better way to hear the commentator voice?  like a compact mic inside the fursuite head?

also, I would have just fell of my chair if someone had played Benny Hills chase music at the final "hunt" stage :D

Have to say, I very much enjoyed watching the fursuit gameshow this year, I'm not sure if what we were watching was what had been planned, but as entertainment it was absolutely first class, I damned near fell of my chair laughing! :)

Definitely on my watch list for next year! :)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: silverfoxwolf on 08.09.2012, 00:57:02
Quote
What you're not taking into account is the room capacity. We need to thin the crowd out by running more events in parallel, otherwise rooms will overcrowd more than they already do.
Funny thing is that later in your posting you apply exactly the opposite reasoning to the restaurants:
Actually the reasoning behind the point is to spread events out over a wider space of time. The point with restaurants is the same, narrow bands of time.

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Where else would you have put it, with the entire afternoon being taken by the fursuit parade and concert setup going on at the same time?
I would have swapped the concert and fursuit games, since concerts generally run later then other events at shows in general.

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Does it occur to you that sometimes shit juts happens? In this case, dance contest overran 35 minutes because of technical failures, and then during concert rehearsals, a member of the camera crew slipped and fell off his platform, needing attention by our paramedics. I hope you do not mind that we put the well-being of our volunteers above our scheduling.
I am well aware of unexpected events causing a problem, I was not raising reasons behind it, just highlighting that a delay happened that was longer then desirable by anyone and no I was not aware of an accident taking place.

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I wouldn't mind. Find my volunteers who want to run stuff competing with the pawpetshow, and I'll give them timeslots. In the last 10 years, there weren't many. Maybe YOU want to run an event?
For once I was not working at a convention, next year I would indeed be interested in running something.

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Before finding him though I naturally went to conops to tell them it was locked, only to find conops left unstaffed. With the amount of staff EF has I found this very surprising.

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Con ops is still looking for volunteers to man their office. Would you be up for it? All it takes is missing 100% of the convention, not getting any sleep, working hard all day, and putting up with criticisms like this. But as I can see you are very motivated to improve the situation, I am looking forward to receiving your application for next year's convention!
I have worked within conops at other events, run medical cover by remote radio control and spent a lot of time in other roles at conventions and events so I am well aware of the work involved. I don't see how noting an absense of staff is a critisism, it is an observation of something that happened. 
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: SouthPaw on 08.09.2012, 01:08:56
maybe just a comment about this:
the storyteller part was awfully long and very very difficult to understand.
I know it is not easy to clearly speak from inside a fursuite head, but wouldnt there be some better way to hear the commentator voice?  like a compact mic inside the fursuite head?

The host did have a headset mike initially, as in previous years, but it fell off/out early in the show so he had to resort to a handheld mike for most of the event.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: BigBlueFox on 08.09.2012, 01:10:24
I would have swapped the concert and fursuit games, since concerts generally run later then other events at shows in general.

Because we tried not to have two fursuit related events clashing. That's all there is to it. The Fursuit Parade would've started together with the Fursuit Games.

And there was no way of pushing it a bit further back, because we needed the main stage for the final rehearsals of the concert.


--------------


We appreciate your comments and pointers, really. I think the reason why some people are responding a little bit allergic is this: We are a big con that has been going on for 18 years. Most staffers and events have grown from more than 10 years of experience. Every decision, every plan, every event is well-considered and talked through with staffers, organisers, panelists.

We are, at the same time, facing challenges and limits, be it with staff, facilities, equipment, everything comes to an end at some point and we need to find the right way inbetween many options to please as many people as possible. One example is the video team, we put in two new team members this year and had more than ever, we had more cameras than ever before, and still missed two events because we suddenly found a situation in which we were understaffed.

For example, the fact that two security staffers just stand around NOW doing nothing doesn't mean they can man a table at the art show during the art show opening times. We have peak hours, and those two very officers may be on duty somewhere completely else the next moment. And as someone else already mentioned, having a luggage / camera check-in like that does cause even more logistical problems, as well as staff related requirements we can't always meet.

When you say that your expectations weren't quite met, I have to say I'm sorry, but we're all just human, we err, we try to respond to an ever-changing situation by adapting as well as we can, but it's not always possible to see every little thing. And issues like the technical and medical delays do happen, and sometimes they are so massive that they even eat up the safety-buffer we put into our timeslots. Sometimes, all we can do is to hold the strings together before something falls apart.

At the same time, I found it quite impressive how the Pawpet Show almost started on time this year, and there was absolutely no positive mention of this so far.

And this wasn't ironic or cynical, if you want to help us running EF, consider yourself welcome! But please understand that half the staff has fallen into a coma and will take a well-needed break at the moment. :)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: silverfoxwolf on 08.09.2012, 01:28:10
BBF I have to say that nothing I have commented on has been intended as any kind of personal critisism to anyone. People will pick up on negative things that happen at events more then the positives. As I said to you at the convention itself, for the most part it was a good time.

From my perspective, I've been working with event planning and emergency management for six years so I'm not just throwing things out for the pure sake of it.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cheetah on 08.09.2012, 01:47:43
Actually the reasoning behind the point is to spread events out over a wider space of time.

Our problem is the quotient Q=(furries/room). We need Q<=1. There's only two ways to get there: Reduce the number of furries or spread them out over more rooms. Since shooting people to free space is not an option, we have to run concurrent events in many rooms. Makes sense now?

Quote
Quote
Where else would you have put it, with the entire afternoon being taken by the fursuit parade and concert setup going on at the same time?
I would have swapped the concert and fursuit games, since concerts generally run later then other events at shows in general.

Completely reconfiguring the sound setup of the stage, changing backdrops, setting up the lighting, soundcheck and rehearsal for the concert took 3 hours. Instrument and stage platform setup began even earlier, behind the closed curtains WHILE the dance contest was running. So, with that huge setup effort in mind, swapping the concert and the gameshow would have resulted in a concert that could theoratically start at 3 in the morning after a 5 hour gap.  If that's your idea of great scheduling, I'm glad you're not in charge of scheduling anything at EF :)

Quote
I am well aware of unexpected events causing a problem, I was not raising reasons behind it

Yeah, except for putting it under the heading "Events were very poorly scheduled". No, in reality, running complex events with amateurs can sometimes get pretty unpredictable. I'm sorry for every minute of delay, but you'd be surprised how unforseen chalenges can blow even the most paranoid schedule to smithereens. The reason why I'm reacting so aggressively is the way you convey your "observations" here, as if the solutions to the problems are totally simple, and we're all just too idiotic to see them. Why don't we just swap events around? Why don't we just put two tables in?

BECAUSE ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE. If it were that simple, we'd done it already. We're not doing this for the first time, you know?

Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Jake R on 08.09.2012, 01:55:01
At the same time, I found it quite impressive how the Pawpet Show almost started on time this year, and there was absolutely no positive mention of this so far.

I was actually rather sad about that, I was still very busy selling otter noses! They went like hot canin.... *cough* cakes! D=

Seriously though: I agree. Kudos for punctuality in general, I hardly heard any complaints about things starting late. Except for the Auction (I believe it was). That started several minutes (GASP!) late. A DISASTER, right, Kage? =)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: o'wolf on 08.09.2012, 02:21:39
No, in reality, running complex events with amateurs can sometimes get pretty unpredictable.

Especially as we are doing a large-scale event like this only once a year. If we were doing this every week as our main job, it would run much more smoothly, of course. Everyone with even just a little bit of insight in event organization says that what we are doing with a small bunch of volunteers is completely impossible. Yet we pull it off, even if some things don't quite work out the way we intended them to.

I take it as a great compliment that our guests expect an amount of professionalism you rarely even find at professional events, and yes I've been to a number, but everyone who has suggestions how to improve — please keep in mind that as we don't get paid for our work our motivation comes from knowing that most of our attendees, our guests, had a great time overall. If you keep your criticism constructive, realistic and fair, we're going to value your opinion. If you are just bickering about minor issues, or things we do not have much influence on like the price of beverages or the softness of pillows, please bear with us if our response may be not so friendly. Especially if it comes to issues we have to explain each year over and over again, like the price of beverages or the softness of pillows.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Atkelar on 08.09.2012, 02:27:11
Have to say, I very much enjoyed watching the fursuit gameshow this year, I'm not sure if what we were watching was what had been planned, but as entertainment it was absolutely first class, I damned near fell of my chair laughing! :)

Definitely on my watch list for next year! :)

Other than the 15 minute or so delay after the first game where we too had to deal with a medical incident backstage it was running as planned!

maybe just a comment about this:
the storyteller part was awfully long and very very difficult to understand.
I know it is not easy to clearly speak from inside a fursuite head, but wouldnt there be some better way to hear the commentator voice?  like a compact mic inside the fursuite head?

also, I would have just fell of my chair if someone had played Benny Hills chase music at the final "hunt" stage :D

I'm sorry for that and we are looking forward to change that "hard to understand" part one way or the other (there are several options). We already had mic-in-head setups in previous years but they didn't work that well either. Pre-recording the storyteller script was an option but I figured that would lead to it being less interactive - i.e. there wouldn't be any time for the suiter to elaborate on things. Also the length was a bit underestimated and will be dealt with, should this game return in some form.

Greetings,
  Atkelar - Fursuit Gameshow
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 08.09.2012, 02:49:05
The host did have a headset mike initially, as in previous years, but it fell off/out early in the show so he had to resort to a handheld mike for most of the event.

I fear I missed the beginning of the event, my apologies for suggesting something that was already planned
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 08.09.2012, 02:50:43
At the same time, I found it quite impressive how the Pawpet Show almost started on time this year, and there was absolutely no positive mention of this so far.
I did in my first feedback, though I didnt mention the events individually.
Lightfox said it too.

be sure that wasnt unnoticed, it was really appreciated at its true value
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: silverfoxwolf on 08.09.2012, 05:33:34
Cheetah, you asked what I would have done with regard to the events being scheduled the way they were I replied with my thoughts. Throwing in information that I was not aware of does not help really to make an observation after it has already been made.

You're reading far too much into what I've written down beyond the actual text.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Gero on 08.09.2012, 10:05:03
My only "concern" regarding the timetable was that the dance competition was during the time before the parade, where most needed to go and change, or at least I did. But I can understand that its not easy to get a timetable that fits every one. Maybe you could let the dance competition start earlier, or swap it to a nightime event? Or maybe had it after the photo session on saterday?

Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Henrieke on 08.09.2012, 11:26:27
EF was AWESOME!!!1
...yes, I will write some actual feedback soon, but I have to say most of my concerns from last year had been resolved this year, and I can't really think of much to complain about! (at least, things that the staff could change at all)

I honestly don't really get all the complaints about the food, given that it's the HOTEL who offers this, not the con. Yes, I wish they'd just close the restaurant, I never even ever saw a con attendee in there, and it could be used as con space, or so... but this is the hotel's business. I'm already VERY happy they worked along with some other things, like opening the staircases, it helped SO much. Food has never been a problem for us at all, we just brought bowls and spoons and ate cereal for breakfast every day. Kaufland is near and super cheap and offers anything you might need, like drinks and fresh fruits. (also super tasty fruit yoghurt for 33 cents, omg??!) There are PLENTY of restaurants near that offer good food for a good price. You get a big plate of spaghetti with salad for 4 euro at the house of steaks, and thanks to your con badge you get free coffee with it as well. I know you can't bring your own drinks to the lobby, so how about just drinking it at your room? I just had bottles of water with me and I never had any trouble drinking that. Really, people complaining this much about the food make me wonder if they have ever been on a holiday at all... I ALWAYS bring my own stuff, or at least buy it in a supermarket. Otherwise I would never even be able to go on trips at all. I am a freelancer and have a very low income, and I need to save up pretty much the whole year to be able to attend EF. You can save a lot of money just by being clever.

My main point of concern this year:
The charity lottery table should be much more visible! Last year we had the fortune wheel, this year many of my friends apparantly didn't even notice the table. But well, I'm sure I can help out with some big banner or sign next year so the table won't be missed :) And then afterwards we can sell that banner for charity XD


Ok... that became a long post still, after all. I'll write more soon, but for now, thank you all for the great con! I really appreciate the hard work :)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Nightfox on 08.09.2012, 11:35:04
Throwing in information that I was not aware of does not help really to make an observation after it has already been made.


See it the other way around, if you make an observation you should ask us about the background information FIRST before giving us useless advice sounding very bigheaded.

When a few staff members already got offended by your comments you should think about your word choice too, your postings sound snippy and smart-assy and nobody likes that, no matter if it is a furry convention or normal business life.

(edited: Fixed a small "false friend" issue, hope you don't mind - Cheetah)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Nightfox on 08.09.2012, 11:43:41
@Henrieke

I got the numbers last year from the restaurant and you would be surprised how many furrys go there ;)
The preakfast is highly frequented and the lunch and dinner business is ok too.
I ate there once and its nice when you need good food in a quiet ambiance.

Besides this the lowered the prices for the bar snack menu massively,
the burger for 9€ was more than fair you could feed two people with that thing ;)

The idea abou the charity desk is very very good, i think we will make them one of our official roll ups to.
First to make the table more visible and second to show guests that this is a official Eurofurence thing and not something else.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Henrieke on 08.09.2012, 11:52:12
@Nightfox

Ok, I take it back what I said about the restaurant then ;) I do know some people use it but I honestly never saw anyone in there! Last year I saw the cook waiting in front of an empty restaurant... he looked so sad, haha. I guess I just have bad timing, then! And yes, I do eat some food from the hotel, but I meant that nobody HAS to buy food there if they find it too expensive.
I thought the veggie lasagna at the hotel BBQ was very tasty, btw! And the bretzels are literally great, too!


I definitely want to help out with making the charity tables more visible next year. If printing costs are an issue, I might even just hand-paint something, much like the pawpet background panels (just not as giant!) Having suiters direct people towards the table also helps a lot! (a certain bat was guilty of that this year) :D
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: SouthPaw on 08.09.2012, 14:59:52
Overall, apart from inconsistency with when Housekeeping serviced the room (latest was 6pm, and on Sunday they didn't empty the bin or provide new towels), I'd say it was a great con. Yes there were hiccups, but that's only to be expected for an event of this size.

Now for a little bit of history (or "Why the schedule is how it is")...When I first started going to EF back in 2001 (EF7), it was held in Youth Hostels (which remained the case up to EF13 in 2007, when they moved to the Ringberg). This effectively enforced Lunch and Dinner breaks, because that's how the Hostels were set up for catering. In addition, there were SIGs held before lunch, but those were discontinued due to poor attendance (certainly by EF11, though I can't remember exactly when). Hence why there are now effectively three main blocks of SIGs, starting at 12:00, 14:00 and 16:00, with Stage events generally being scheduled independently.

The other issue affecting stage events is the need for rehearsal and setup, which you don't see in the public schedule, but which has been touched on earlier. I'm sure the Pawpet Show crew, for example, would like nothing more than to be able to have rehearsals that don't finish at 7am, but they're constrained by the need to finish building and rigging the stage and program the lighting desk, and having the stage room for an extra day would cost more and probably not be possible anyway because of other events taking place at the hotel.

My one criticism with the scheduling this year would be that Friday was rather "fursuit heavy" with the Dance Contest, Parade and Games all taking place on the same day, and two fursuit track SIGs scheduled for the 12:00 slot (How to be a Demon and Animatronics for Fursuits), but I'm not sure that anything could have been done to avoid that.

So all in all, I thought it was a great con as usual and I'm looking forward to next year.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cheetah on 08.09.2012, 16:59:30
Throwing in information that I was not aware of does not help really to make an observation after it has already been made.

Then wouldn't it be far more constructive to first make sure you have all the information before jumping to conclusions?
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Gero on 08.09.2012, 17:03:55

My one criticism with the scheduling this year would be that Friday was rather "fursuit heavy" with the Dance Contest, Parade and Games all taking place on the same day, and two fursuit track SIGs scheduled for the 12:00 slot (How to be a Demon and Animatronics for Fursuits), but I'm not sure that anything could have been done to avoid that.

So all in all, I thought it was a great con as usual and I'm looking forward to next year.
This.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Itchigo Icetalons on 08.09.2012, 17:16:10
Quote
The idea about the charity desk is very very good, i think we will make them one of our official roll ups to.
First to make the table more visible and second to show guests that this is a official Eurofurence thing and not something else.

I already noticed this and chatted with Henrieke on site about it. I really felt tucked away over there as I did my best to pull people in. I wanted to make a wishing well, but stuff arrived late and I could not finish it on time. Even so, I don't think it would've made that much a difference.

It would be better indeed to have a more themed table, easily recognised as EF CHARITY.  I'll have to look into the available options. I don't think it's nessecary, but if you'd like I can keep you updated.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Thygrrr on 08.09.2012, 17:35:46
+ overall, the best Furry con I have been to in 3 or 4 years
+ events were very timely;counting on the pawpet show being late cost me my club sandwich  ;D
+ food at the snack point was good (especially the burgers, the donuts etc.), pricing was very fair
+ big blue dance was pure gold
+ volume level in the piano bar was usually quite pleasant
+ drinks were good
+ BBQ was quite decent, but cannot compete with places like the La Piazza or the Qilin
+ room service was flawless and friendly, tips were collected once clearly marked as such
+ A/C in the room (257) worked like a charm
+ the charity people and their dogs were so nice
+ decoration, standees and banners were breathtakingly awesome
+ con ops made Hercules look like a slacker
+ security was always friendly, always present. I counted over 16 Gyroplasts one day, great job on the cloning.

~ drink pricing ... beer and cocktails were quite fair, cola and water overpriced
~ bar tenders being slow / uncoordinated, seeming jaded. The Ringberg crew spoiled us beyond recovery, I guess

- dealers den imbalances, I'm sure Alpha_Ki will pick the best suggestions and bolster them with this year's experience
- that one cursed auction piece: were you guys really considering to re-auction the first piece? That'd have opened a big can of worms, both ethically and maybe legally. m(


Some suggestions:
* why not outright ban cameras, bags, and everything beyond a smart phone in the art show room? just turn people away. No bag check, no table. It's not like this is anthrocon where you have to walk two city blocks to get to your hotel room.
* spread out panels further (it's been tough to get from one panel to the next on time), maybe offer noon or evening slots etc. at the panelist discretion
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 08.09.2012, 18:45:28
mmm, bags and camera are already forbiden in the artshow room


* why not outright ban cameras, bags, and everything beyond a smart phone in the art show room? just turn people away. No bag check, no table. It's not like this is anthrocon where you have to walk two city blocks to get to your hotel room.


this:
- that one cursed auction piece: were you guys really considering to re-auction the first piece? That'd have opened a big can of worms, both ethically and maybe legally.
thats why I said to Kage I disagree with what he wanted to do
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: silverfoxwolf on 09.09.2012, 01:13:22
Throwing in information that I was not aware of does not help really to make an observation after it has already been made.

Then wouldn't it be far more constructive to first make sure you have all the information before jumping to conclusions?

Somehow I doubt that EF or any other organisation is going to make all information public pertaining to every detail of every event.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: o'wolf on 09.09.2012, 02:31:31
Throwing in information that I was not aware of does not help really to make an observation after it has already been made.

Then wouldn't it be far more constructive to first make sure you have all the information before jumping to conclusions?

Somehow I doubt that EF or any other organisation is going to make all information public pertaining to every detail of every event.

Moderator note: Please keep the discussion on topic of constructive EF 18 feedback, otherwise I have to move your postings to a more appropriate place.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: FurbleFawks on 09.09.2012, 20:35:28
This year's EF has been the best ever for me.
There was so much to do, so many things to see and lots of awesome fun with friends.

I'm not really a fox of many words, so here's my extremely brief feedback.

Awesome Points:

Oops, forgot to say the charity was a good choice and the people from it were really neat!


Negatives:

Otherwise, fantastic convention guys. Keep up the awesome work. I know it is definitely worth all the hard work and effort you put in when you see the smiles on everyone's faces because of what you've done.

On another happy note, I have a really neat idea for an event next year and I'm quite curious about running it too.
Who would I be best to poke, when you're getting around to this?


Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: karpour on 10.09.2012, 00:00:33
Feedback part 1 (because I probably will think of more stuff later)

Suggestions
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: BigBlueFox on 10.09.2012, 01:36:02

  • Blackboard at the entrance like at the Ringberg, I miss it so much!


The blackboard actually was at the back entrance, probably due to the fact that the front entrance had this huge and awesome piece of decoration set up.

I do have to admit, tho, it wasn't the best or most obvious place to put a blackboard. At the same time, I lack ideas for a better place.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: davuu on 10.09.2012, 02:41:46

 Just thought I would add something,

Music- I have never found the music to be particularily loud, if you go to a club or dance the volume is about the same... It doesnt bother me.

 Drink Prices - you are paying hotel/bar prices.  The bar can be used by other guests and visitors not just in the hotel, If you go to the shopping centre and get some drinks, you can have a drink in your room before coming down to the bar.

Art show - it does say in the conbook and on a sign on the door that cameras arent allowed, its the same thing every year, yet it seems to catch people out.

Schedule- normally if something is behind, its not because the staff are sat there having a coffee break its because generally something has happened.

you're on holiday/ ot have a good time, go with the flow.

As for Blackboard placement, I think.. as long as you put it in say the con book somewhere where it is, then people will know to look for it.  Maybe somewhere by conops, then people can get all their info in one place. 

For the amount of people that attend, increasing in numbers every year, I think the con is great and relatively problem free.  I think a big thanks to all the staff for all their hard work behind the scenes is in order, as they give up alot of their free time before, during and after the con to make sure it works every year.  Thankyou. 

 
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Drachetto on 10.09.2012, 11:18:42
The blackboard actually was at the back entrance, probably due to the fact that the front entrance had this huge and awesome piece of decoration set up.

I do have to admit, tho, it wasn't the best or most obvious place to put a blackboard. At the same time, I lack ideas for a better place.

In front of the other doors of the Fursuit Lounge? I remember it was always closed.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: BigBlueFox on 10.09.2012, 11:52:18
The blackboard actually was at the back entrance, probably due to the fact that the front entrance had this huge and awesome piece of decoration set up.

I do have to admit, tho, it wasn't the best or most obvious place to put a blackboard. At the same time, I lack ideas for a better place.

In front of the other doors of the Fursuit Lounge? I remember it was always closed.

No, it was at the back of the lobby, where the two elevators are. Pretty close to the con ops office.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: DarkFoxDK on 10.09.2012, 13:01:45
The blackboard actually was at the back entrance, probably due to the fact that the front entrance had this huge and awesome piece of decoration set up.

I do have to admit, tho, it wasn't the best or most obvious place to put a blackboard. At the same time, I lack ideas for a better place.

In front of the other doors of the Fursuit Lounge? I remember it was always closed.

No, it was at the back of the lobby, where the two elevators are. Pretty close to the con ops office.

It felt too hidden away to me. I only came across it on the last day. Perhaps placing it behind the decoration, across from the elevators would work better? It seemed people were putting up announcements around there anyway.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cookie on 10.09.2012, 13:03:16
The blackboard actually was at the back entrance, probably due to the fact that the front entrance had this huge and awesome piece of decoration set up.

I do have to admit, tho, it wasn't the best or most obvious place to put a blackboard. At the same time, I lack ideas for a better place.

In front of the other doors of the Fursuit Lounge? I remember it was always closed.

No, it was at the back of the lobby, where the two elevators are. Pretty close to the con ops office.

Yes, Drachetto was suggesting a new place to put it, i think :)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Drachetto on 10.09.2012, 16:12:25
.... I lack ideas for a better place.

In front of the other doors of the Fursuit Lounge? I remember it was always closed.

No, it was at the back of the lobby, where the two elevators are. Pretty close to the con ops office.

Yes, Drachetto was suggesting a new place to put it, i think :)

Yes, I was ^^'
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: datgingercat on 10.09.2012, 17:10:53
EF18 was my first furry convention and I have to admit, you guys have successfully convinced me into wanting more!

Some things that particularly suited me:
+ Hotel location, pretty much everything was in walking distance
+ Panel organisation; there were really a lot of panels, many of them taking place at the same time yet somehow, I don't know if this was intentional, with the last schedule modification I was able to attend everything I wanted to see.
+ Security team was doing a great job! You need to put two boxes at the bar next year, where one can put in donations for the security team and the staff, which they can obtain by the end of the day in the form of fine German beverages :D
+ Informative screens with maps (I know there were maps in the con book, but taking one quick look before rushing off in search of the next room was much easier this way)

However, there were some things which might need slight improvements:
- My name contains strange Martian non-ascii characters and that resulted in a very funny badge. I was kindly offered to have my badge replaced, but I didn't want to bother the team, thought if you guys keep up the good work you should consider the possibility of further Martian guests.
- I guess this should go without saying, but perhaps, apart from asking people to not abuse the elevators, you should also write a short guide on how to use an elevator, because I didn't feel very safe when someone decided it would be fun to start jumping up and down in the elevator and the whole elevator was shaking.
- Another thing about elevators, this might be a stupid suggestion as I don't know how the elevators are controlled, nor how cooperative the hotel staff/elevator staff is, but perhaps you should consider adding an option for security and fursuiters - when they swipe their badge through the card reader, their floor of choice is given priority to everyone else's, which they could use if they were in a hurry.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Gero on 10.09.2012, 17:21:33
Please no: That would leave everyone with a fursuit badge doing that trick all the time making it everything but impossible for every one else to use the elevators att peak times. So as much as I as fursuiter would love this suggestion please dont.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Raider on 10.09.2012, 20:47:41
- I guess this should go without saying, but perhaps, apart from asking people to not abuse the elevators, you should also write a short guide on how to use an elevator, because I didn't feel very safe when someone decided it would be fun to start jumping up and down in the elevator and the whole elevator was shaking.

This seems to be a never-ending story at furcons. I honestly don't get why breaking the elevators by jumping in them is such an intriguing idea to some people. It shakes for some seconds and then it's broken (again) and everyone is taking the stairs. Well done. The same goes for pushing all the buttons and getting off at the first floor.
I think Gyroplast would be interested in having a talk with the guy you met there.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Dhary Montecore on 10.09.2012, 20:53:35
We WILL take care of the elevator problem next year as this repeats year after year. The few elevators are a limited ressource and to hear that there are still people breaking them for fun is getting annoying. We will handle that, I promise :3
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 10.09.2012, 21:55:36
mmm, I have had much less problems with elevator this year compared to previous years, and I was at floor 4 instead of 1.
I think more people were using the stairs.
Though maybe it would be nice to clearly explain in the conbook or some other visible place (forum?) that the stairs front side, which have magnetic card pass, are now always open from both side, while the stairs from back side can only be used to go down (no magnetic card pass).
once you know you need to go front side to go up, it's really easy to navigate the hotel without needing the elevators

about elevator breaking up, I noticed at two occasion that if someone tried to keep the doors open when they are closing, the doors would open but the elevator would decide to play dead with all the button not working. I guess this a security feature, but it's really easy to freeze them that way.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: silverfoxwolf on 10.09.2012, 21:59:55
The only problem I found with the lifts was on departure day when so many people were trying to leave. It was easier to walk up the stairs and then only wait for the lifts going down.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: nifelan on 10.09.2012, 23:30:01
Overall, the con was a nice experience. Please don't take the things I'm about to say as having ruined the con for me - but when EF can be such a great time, negative things can have a much higher impact.
Generally I want to thank the staff and security for being helpful.

Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Gero on 11.09.2012, 11:15:44

  • Fear of heights again, the hotel tried to put me on the 6th floor. For the third time in a row. Luckily I was able to get a room a bit lower, yet still not in an ideal place. This also meant that I had to rely on the elevators more often. I start to think that this option during registration does absolutely nothing. I even booked early arrival to make sure that I don't get a bad room this time and took the first possible train I could ;)
Maybe a good idea to try one of the overflew hotel next year? No names but mine had only five floor and I got a room on the first one, thus it has no indoor open space and was a short two minutes walk from the con hotel.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: nobs on 11.09.2012, 19:56:59
Great con for me. I had lots of fun and nothing to complain. I just avoided the things I don't like ;-)

The main thing to avoid was the "UNF UNF UNF" music. I was there for some minutes. Thanks to Thygrr's ear plugs it was bearable for a while. But apart from the pure volume I really would prefer some more "melodic" music from time to time. I understand lots of furs enjoy the simplistic music. But there are other's as well.

Or is there really no DJ anymore willing to play the "classics"?

Another small thing is the time of day of the room cleaning. I understand that there is a problem with the messies. And I guess the personal wants to do the job "in a row" of the rooms. So skipping the "garbage dumps" rooms first might not be an option. But I just like to point out that this is a problem for every other attendee.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Taggy on 11.09.2012, 20:06:34
Thanks for the great con. It is my third and everytime it is better.
Thanks to all the people and a great thanks to cheetah.
I don't know if there would be an EF without him, but it would not be the same...
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Pinky on 11.09.2012, 23:48:04
My main point of concern this year:
The charity lottery table should be much more visible! Last year we had the fortune wheel, this year many of my friends apparantly didn't even notice the table. But well, I'm sure I can help out with some big banner or sign next year so the table won't be missed :) And then afterwards we can sell that banner for charity XD

Just to follow up on this one, I totally agree and that's one of our learning points for next year. I welcome you to help us on this, I think you'll do a smashing job at upping our visibility.

Did people like the charity concert? Should we try to do something similar again? DId it work splitting the auction into two parts and keeping the charity items as surprises/mystery items? Did you like the idea about the otter noses? Should we try to bring next year's charity to the con as well? Should they bring animals? Would you be interested if next year's charity also did a panel?
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Amy Ninetails on 12.09.2012, 00:17:01

Did people like the charity concert? Should we try to do something similar again? DId it work splitting the auction into two parts and keeping the charity items as surprises/mystery items? Did you like the idea about the otter noses? Should we try to bring next year's charity to the con as well?

i for one would have liked to know what items was up for charity auction. they usually are the cream of the crop and thus making more people inclined to bid on them.

the otter noses were awesome! more of this!

absolutely! bring the charity to the con was a great idea and it was really moving to see their reaction to the preliminary figures. it is a great idea to have their staff there to be able to tell more about what they do and see some of the work they do. big plus and much love on this!
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Gero on 12.09.2012, 00:19:02
Did people like the charity concert? Should we try to do something similar again? DId it work splitting the auction into two parts and keeping the charity items as surprises/mystery items? Did you like the idea about the otter noses? Should we try to bring next year's charity to the con as well? Should they bring animals? Would you be interested if next year's charity also did a panel?
Id really liked the charity concert but idk if the piano bar was the best room for it. It got a nice and intimate setting but some people has to be seated behind the bar thing and behind the singers so maybe not the ideal room. Otherwise a great concert and some wery touching moments! I really liked the idea to have a signed poster aviable for the concert.

As for the charity, I really liked the fact that they had dogs with them, and it make for a very nice conversation subject, as well as aded greatly to the con feeling in the lobby. And thus I am totaly sure that the huge success in found raising was due to them having theyre dogs with them! Idk if its doable but if so maybe some photo ops (where the fees goes to charity ofc) with them dogs and fursuiters might be a good idea next year? Providing the dogs accept it ofc. Maybe it could be a thing for furries to be photoed with GOH as well? Might be an extra way to ad some euros to the charity.

And without knowing who the charity are next year I would say yes! Id guess its not uncommon among us furries to be interested in the wellbeing of animals so yes.

Oh and I really liked the otter noses even thou I didnt had the chance to buy that many. More of them (or simular thing) next year please! After all: Every one loves a piece off candy every now and then!
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Henrieke on 12.09.2012, 00:22:48
DId it work splitting the auction into two parts and keeping the charity items as surprises/mystery items?
Having it split was nice in my opinion, technical/time problems aside! I think though that especially with some of the charity items that would get a lot of interest it would definitely help to show them in the art show; I think it would help draw in an audience. I don't really buy impulsively so when I buy original art I want to give it some time first, taking a long look. Also, I think that when people see a piece one or two days in advance already, and set their minds on it, that one piece will get stuck in their mind and they will really WANT it!
Leaving in surprises is also nice though, it might attract curious people, and would make the auction more interesting. So maybe showcase a few pieces in the art show, and keep some secret? Do make sure you advertise the SECRET allll over the place, then!

Did you like the idea about the otter noses?
YES! I bought like, 20 bags of them XD
Ate half of them myself, got fat, giving the rest away to people.

Should we try to bring next year's charity to the con as well? Should they bring animals?
YES and yes, if it's ok for the animals!

Would you be interested if next year's charity also did a panel?
I did not get to attend this year's panel but I definitely think it's interesting. Was the panel well attended?
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Bostitch on 12.09.2012, 00:24:16
Did people like the charity concert? Should we try to do something similar again? DId it work splitting the auction into two parts and keeping the charity items as surprises/mystery items? Did you like the idea about the otter noses? Should we try to bring next year's charity to the con as well? Should they bring animals? Would you be interested if next year's charity also did a panel?
I probably don't need to say this as you were present yourself, but if there are mystery items, there really really need to be good photographs of those items available. :|

I think the split auction was a good idea. Trying to bring the charity to the con itself is definitely a plus. A charity panel sounds interesting, but with the schedule already so swamped, I'm not sure how well it would be attended.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Pinky on 12.09.2012, 15:12:26
Wow some really great and constructive answers so far. I like your ideas guys! I will definitely be taking them all into account when designing next years' events and activities. Many things was the first year we tried them out, so it's good to get some feedback to actually see from an attendee point of view how they worked out.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: krakendwaggin on 12.09.2012, 15:39:47
Did people like the charity concert? Should we try to do something similar again? DId it work splitting the auction into two parts and keeping the charity items as surprises/mystery items? Did you like the idea about the otter noses? Should we try to bring next year's charity to the con as well? Should they bring animals? Would you be interested if next year's charity also did a panel?

I think the Charity concert should be done on stage if possible, you'd be able to sell more tickets that way, though a smaller room leads to a much more 'intimate' concert, makes it more special.

The auction in two halves was a very good idea, just a shame about the technical problems!

The otter noses were a fantastic idea, I must've bought 30+ of them, I would've bought a case to take home if there was such a option! (heck, would still buy some if available!) , do this again next year!

Yes always try to bring the charity there, it's always much nicer to hear from the charity themselves, especially when they bring along the animals!
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Gero on 12.09.2012, 17:02:05
I saw that when the dogs first come to con (was it wensday or thursday?) a couple of them seemed a bit scared off furies at the entreance, but they get used after a while. Would it be a good idea to arrange so whatever animals youll have next year get a chance to get used to fursuiters?
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Schorse on 12.09.2012, 17:48:29
At least on Sunday, the dogs got used to the suiters. :)
http://media.furcon.de/Eurofurence/ef18/Schorse/tn/EF18%20052.jpg (http://media.furcon.de/Eurofurence/ef18/Schorse/tn/EF18%20052.jpg)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: silverfoxwolf on 12.09.2012, 17:52:25
Would it be possible to have a list of the art pieces sold printed up with the winner attendee numbers posted on a board outside the den? It would save having to queue up to find out if you have won something or not.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 12.09.2012, 18:01:41
Would it be possible to have a list of the art pieces sold printed up with the winner attendee numbers posted on a board outside the den? It would save having to queue up to find out if you have won something or not.

see https://forum.eurofurence.org/index.php/topic,4029.msg39629.html#msg39629
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Raider on 12.09.2012, 20:33:54
Did people like the charity concert? Should we try to do something similar again?

Yes, it was very nice. Sadly, I had to leave after half of it due to duty, but I still felt like the ticket "was worth" the 5€. The Piano Bar can not provide space for that many people, but it providess a very nice, comfy setting.

Did you like the idea about the otter noses?

This needs to be repeated. I saw so many people buying those (even in bulk, to give away). I personally did not like the flavor, but that's really complaining on a high comfort level. The price was low enough to make it a very affordable expense for some quick candy and you even got the fuzzy feeling of doing something nice for charity.

Should we try to bring next year's charity to the con as well? Should they bring animals? Would you be interested if next year's charity also did a panel?

Having the carity people at the con it a really good incentive to donate since you can put a friendly face to the good cause. To actually have the animals you're donating for right in front of you improved that even further. So, yes, please.
I don't know if I would actually take the time to attend a charity info panel. Maybe them doing a short (5-10 minutes max) presentation about their work at the opening ceremonies would draw more attention?
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Huskyboy on 12.09.2012, 21:27:33
So, i have just a few things. The Con itself was good as last time...

+ Meeting Many Friends, good Parties and stuff...
+ AC worked, i had always Hot Water in the Shower
+ Could see all Panels i wanted to see

0 Sound on the Mainstage, specialy the Concert was a bit weird, Background was to Loud, Drums too, so they make it difficult to hear the other Instruments, and on the Encore there was a Badly Feedback, that was Painful for my Ears... Not the Loudness, just that Feedback...

and there are some things that arent directly the Con but the Hotel...
- Housekeeping who is not interested in that DND Signs, at 9 in the Morning... one Time there was even no knocking on the Door, they just opened it...
- No Towels at the Pool, at 11 in the Morning, and at 3 on the Other day...
- as Every Year, Prices at the Bar, 5,50 for 0,5l Beer is a bit... overpriced in my Eyes, i was in 5 Star Hotels with lower Prices...
- The Coffee, in the Morning it was ok, not good, but for 1€ i would not say anything. But over the Day the Coffee gets old and they only made new one when all old was gone... and you know Old Coffee is eww.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Jake R on 13.09.2012, 00:37:29
@Pinky: as one of the people selling otter noses (including during the Pawpet Show seating / intermissions), I can say without a doubt that there was a lot of interest in otter noses! I was completely amazed at the speed at which I ran out. Just make sure you find people willing to make a fool out of themselves (or just stay themselves, like me! =P) to sell them as it seems to easily double the amount of interest. Not to mention the person(s) who offered the combo-package "otter noses + hug : €1,00" (instead of €0,50) which made sales soar. =D

What I think could give an amazing boost to the charity, but probably a total pain to organize, is 100% charity quick (pencil) sketch commissions by a few artists at the charity tables. Many of the great artists are already fully booked during the con, busy with the Dealer's Den and other con-related events. But if enough can take the time to spend an hour or two at the charity table, you could probably draw a lot of people towards there... and then the charity salesmen can start selling them other things. =) Just an idea though - I'm not an artist and have no idea if this is feasible or not.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: TraxSwe on 13.09.2012, 18:44:40
@Pinky: as one of the people selling otter noses (including during the Pawpet Show seating / intermissions), I can say without a doubt that there was a lot of interest in otter noses! I was completely amazed at the speed at which I ran out. Just make sure you find people willing to make a fool out of themselves (or just stay themselves, like me! =P) to sell them as it seems to easily double the amount of interest. Not to mention the person(s) who offered the combo-package "otter noses + hug : €1,00" (instead of €0,50) which made sales soar. =D

That was me :-)
Got a box at the charity desk then went to ConOps to get the nice paper to stick to the box. About 95% went for the hug, the remaining 5% were a bit scared of me i think *meowrrr*

I just want to make one addition. The charity collector box was very hard to put coins into and since i was in suit it was pretty difficult to get them to understand that the small hole on top was actually for coins. Maybe either a small sticker next to it: Coins or a little bit bigger hole.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Pinky on 13.09.2012, 19:50:15
Yeah we had problems with the cvollection boxes and suiters earlier as well, but there's no good solution to it that I've found so far. The problem is that if the hole is too large, the contents risk falling out again. But yeah stickers might her, so I'll note it down for next year. :-)

Thanks for helping us out, I loved the hug idea, it's totally in the right spirit.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Luxen on 13.09.2012, 21:17:59
Did people like the charity concert? Should we try to do something similar again? DId it work splitting the auction into two parts and keeping the charity items as surprises/mystery items? Did you like the idea about the otter noses? Should we try to bring next year's charity to the con as well? Should they bring animals? Would you be interested if next year's charity also did a panel?
As far as I've seen or heard, both the charity concert and the charity auction were a big hit with the con-goers, so kudos on that. :-)

Bringing animals: It worked nicely this year. But it will only work if the next charity focusses on pets again. Personally, I'd much rather give money to conserve endangered wildlife than to take care of pets in relatively rich countries. Both are worthy causes, however.

I feel that whether a charity can bring animals or not should be secondary as long as they do important work. I support charity because I like the cause, not because the animals they brought were cute.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Jumpy on 14.09.2012, 00:07:05
I feel that whether a charity can bring animals or not should be secondary as long as they do important work. I support charity because I like the cause, not because the animals they brought were cute.

I very much agree with this. Not being able to bring live animals to show should not stop us from taking charities such as the Raubkatzenasyl or the Gnadenhof. That would be such a shame. It simply should not be a deciding factor.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Pinky on 14.09.2012, 10:06:30
Don't worry guys, it's not a deciding factor. This year was the first year where we actually had animals on site, so I just wondered how that worked. But I would in no way discriminate against charities that cannot bring animals, all animals are worth saving (except spiders, whasps and hornets, mosquitoes, leeches, ticks, green elephants and jabberwocks of course  ;) ).
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Faolin on 14.09.2012, 13:06:40
I guess dogs are the only animals you can actually bring on site, aren't they? If it's not about logistics, it's maybe about the stress level those animals will have to deal with.

However, I really loved this year's charity including otter noses, the concert (with its very awesome atmosphere) and the auction (might be better to show the items beforehand, though). I also attended their panel and found it quite sad that they were holding it for only... 6? people. As far as I remember, Uncle Kage held his Story Hour at the same time and the Dealer's Den opened. But, to my impression, only few people would actually have attented the charity panel, even if they'd been free from those other events. I might be wrong with that.
This might also be different, if there will be a charity without "just dogs" (or rather "just very special dogs") you can meet and greet in the Lobby all the time.

So: please go for another charity panel, it's interesting to get background information, videos and photos, before-and-after-stories and such.

All in all, this EF has been indescribably awesome to me and I just want to say thank you. :)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Gero on 14.09.2012, 13:10:35
Oh talking about FFF, did I hear wrong or did someone actually promise to make them a fursuit if they returned next year? Was in one of the events at the main stage but I forgot which one.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Pinky on 14.09.2012, 13:22:33
You heard wrong. At the beginning of the Pawpet Show I said they were more than welcome to come back, and I also mentioned that last year's charity had in fact returned, this time as a normal attendee and with a fursuit. But no one promised anyone a fursuit.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Hasani on 14.09.2012, 22:37:22
Eurofurence 18 was my first furry convention ever, I was so worried I wouldn't like it. Well now I'm already planning Confuzzled 2013 and Eurofurence 2013, so I think my time at Eurofurence was a great one. I got to meet many furs in person, some were artist that I like. Also it was my first time traveling alone and first time in Germany, which is a wonderful country and the people talk English very well. First day for me was just getting into the swing of things and that happened pretty fast, the next day I was already pretty well settled in to the convention way of things.

From there on I just had so much fun, talking to friends and seeing how much fun it was to be around so many furries. Because of all the fursuiters and seeing how much they were having fun, I'm getting one for myself. I'm gonna start with a partial, but I will expand it to a full suit later. So this is all that my first convention did to me, Eurofurence has made me proud to be a furry.

I hope to see you all again, maybe at Confuzzled or Eurofurence, maybe even both.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Gero on 15.09.2012, 10:47:44
You heard wrong. At the beginning of the Pawpet Show I said they were more than welcome to come back, and I also mentioned that last year's charity had in fact returned, this time as a normal attendee and with a fursuit. But no one promised anyone a fursuit.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. But its a great thing that being part of the con grows an interest in being a fursuiter.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: kiwikig on 15.09.2012, 16:01:28
negative:


positive:


It was an awesome con as always, glad to be there and looking forward to next time!  :D
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Dhary Montecore on 15.09.2012, 18:25:15
[...]security sent me back inside cause of my outfit or so, I dunno,[..]


Dear Sir or Madam,

yes, of course it was because of your outfit. At Eurofurence 17 you have been asked by security not to walk in front of the hotel, since your outfit would be bothering for other attendees and might give the wrong impression on passing city folk. When you were told that, you were standing at the street, waving at cars.

This year you walked out the front of the hotel again, despite securitys plead not to do so. I do understand your reason, that the lounge was too crowded, but please be informed, that we had multiple attendees, worried about your outfit in public and that we do share their concern. If you need to cool down and the lounge is too crowded again, please use the back-entrance when you wear your "club-wear".

And yes, I am aware, that you joined the fursuitparade in the same outfit. I just decided to tolerate that since I noticed only after the parade started.

Please, try to wear at least more decent clothing when wearing your suit outside of the hotel. Thank you for your understanding!
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: kiwikig on 15.09.2012, 21:48:40
"yes, of course it was because of your outfit. At Eurofurence 17 you have been asked by security not to walk in front of the hotel, since your outfit would be bothering for other attendees and might give the wrong impression on passing city folk. When you were told that, you were standing at the street, waving at cars."

I contacted the security last year to say I am sorry about going too close to the street. As I said I had no intention to do anything else than cooling off and staying at the entrance this year.

"If you need to cool down and the lounge is too crowded again, please use the back-entrance when you wear your "club-wear"."

As I said the back entrance was locked.

"And yes, I am aware, that you joined the fursuitparade in the same outfit."

Then you got me wrong or talk about another person.
clubwear: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/8823832/
parade: http://s1.directupload.net/images/120915/22lo5dh7.jpg
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cheetah on 15.09.2012, 23:08:57
Can you please move this discussion to a more private channel? Thank you.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Kamuniak on 19.09.2012, 23:08:07
It is possible that pretty much everything is covered in these 12 pages of feedback, but I still write my own, things that first and most clear come to my mind:

+ Almost everything was starting on time or just with minor delays
+ Lifts weren't nearly as busy as last year, or I was just lucky with them
+ International snack exchange, Photographer's eye and Bat panel :)

- Almost constant queue to bigger Dealers' Den
- Fursuit parade could have had at least one stopping point on some nice location. Giving time for fursuiters to re-group and rest for a while and people to take photographs.
- Fursuit group photo was closed from other than official photographer until very last minute. I understand that this way it was easy to make sure there was no distractions and no other than fursuiters in group photo. But still I think this could have been arranged somehow so that other people also could have been let in to take photos.
- I still miss Ringberg just a little...
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Blackymoon on 23.09.2012, 00:13:18
I think most things were already said but I just have to write my own feedback :3

This years EF was my first furry convention I ever attended with many "firsts" that I have gone through in these four days.

Starting with my social shyness towards other people I was truly skeptic to attend the convention at first, not to mention truly scared, but was convinced to go nonetheless to see for myself.

It was really overwhelming ... seeing the hotel and the lobby at my arrival-day ... seeing so many people in one place doing their thing. Nevertheless all was planned and scheduled well so the only thing to do was wait to get my room card and such.

Before the con I thought that staying at a hotel for four days would be totally boring. Ok, seeing a few fursuiters for the first time in real live, looking through the dealers den, taking a few photos, then what? But when I looked through the conbook I was overwhelmed again at the massive amount of events and panels to attend which I really didn't know just what I should watch or where I should go so I just joined what came near, not really a concept or plan what to do ^^;;

Really all the stage shows and panels I saw were great, everything was on time for the most part. I really began to have fun and enjoy myself on my second day, still shy but it just felt more and more ... well, not really like "home" but the atmosphere and overall friendlyness of all the people lets someone feel "comfortable" just to be there. Someone said to me that those four days are like a full week of holiday for him, a highlight of the year - and I can only underline that.

Suiting for the first time was also tons of fun, even though I was really scared at first - but that faded soon after when I hugged the first people that came up to me. And I got really emotionally touched when I could bring smiles upon some kids faces, that was one of my personal highlights. But I was too scared to join the parade ... a shame when thought about afterwards, I will definately join the next one.

The only negative thing to mention would be ... during the dance contest while the technical difficulties occured ... that Cheetah didn't give us a solo-dance at the end like 2 threatened, I would have loved to see that ... bad Cheetah xD

But seriously:
A BIG THANK YOU to all the staffers, team-leads, security, panelists and con-helpers for their hard work during those four days to bring a furry convention to life that I will never forget. For making my first furry convention a remarkable one. You guys truly deserve a big pat on the back!

To think that a con this huge is run by hobby'ists, freelancers and helpers in such a damn professional way is amazing. This concept is something I truly adore, a furry convention run by fans for fans, like it should be, so please don't change the way you do things.

Another thing I highly support and was honored to be a part of was that there was a charity where everyone could join in and help FFF - and was moved at how much we collected in only four days. But ... as an otter myself I must say ... why otter noses? All those people eating the noses of my kin, I was horrified! xD Need to buy more next year to give them back to my friends :D

Many ottery hugs from me to all of you - come and claim them at next years EF which I will definately join as well!   

Blacky
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Blue Raptor on 06.11.2012, 22:24:49
Oh my, almost forgot I wanted to post here.

It was a very great con, thank you all very much!
Decoration was indeed awesome, and registration was very smooth and well organized.
And hey, really great affordable prices on the coffee and some snacks in the lobby! :)

Like so many I found the queuing situation at the dealers room... not optimal. I suppose the two rooms do not fit where the art show was (that could then be split up there into e.g. adult / general in the two rooms)? There's so much more room for a the queue down there.

Then I found it really nice how many chairs were put to the many round tables in the back of the lobby. That helped a lot to have somewhere to sit and mingle. It would be nice if the hotel could find some more chairs for the smaller tables in the front too though, those were always overcrowded. Also the first floor on the front of the hotel had two seatings with a total of 7 chairs, which is really nice but it would easily fit another seating and some more chairs two. I know, raptors are never happy. Just saying. :)

Ah, and the steak house. There are a lot of great food places around that the crowd can spread out to, some of which we only found this year, but that steak house is just too good and the con is growing so it won't get any less full. Maybe the restaurant might want to go with all meals coming on a single plate during that week if someone suggest it? Less walking to do for the waiters, less confusion, no waiting for half of the meal because the steak is there but the side is still in the kitchen, more space on the table...
Otherwise I can only recommend taking the pepper steak. That is a steak but comes on a single plate already. :)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: kalaallitamaroq on 25.11.2012, 23:46:03
Ok, just my 2 cents:

GOOD:

SUGGESTIONS FOR NEW FEATURES:

COULD BE DONE BETTER:

VERY BAD, FIX THIS:
The registration system doesn't allow you to specify the country that will be displayed on the badge, it defaults to the country of residence. And the rules say that it's forbidden to cover any part of the badge.
I spent the first 5 minutes when talking to ANYBODY by explaining that I'm not German both at EF17 and EF18. It gets REALLY annoying after the 20th time in the same hour (no, I'm not joking about this)
At EF17 it was really a problem because people would just start to speak with me in German, which I couldn't speak at the time.
Next year (assuming I make it) it would display yet another country.
This is RIDICULOUS! PLEASE allow us to choose the country to display on the badge, or maybe to put the nationality, or give the option to hide it. otherwise I will not put my actual address in the registration form next time.


That said, I really hope I will make it for EF19, because I had really a great time  :)


Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cheetah on 26.11.2012, 14:54:26
Ok, just my 2 cents:

That's some late feedback, but since it's gone rather quite in this thread, I'll take the time to actually respond in detail.

Quote
a big (huge!) screen to display non stop actual infos like:
  - canceled or delayed events
  - maps of the rooms where events are happening
  - reminders of upcoming events
maybe a projector on the reception desk projecting on a cloth screen hanging from the "C" floor or something like that.
I can volunteer to write the software to have it running by EF19

It sounds like a no-brainer doesn't it? That's what we thought, too. But believe it or not, this has been on our agenda since EF13, and we had to find out the hard way, that the software is not the problem - a simple self-refreshing web page in a browser would do the trick - something anyone with minimal IT knowledge can do in a few minutes.

The problem is to actually gather the information, feed it into the system, and keep it updated. And until today we haven't quite found a workable solution for the organisational problem behind it.

Quote
a "feedback" box somewhere, so that people can submit feedback immediately (and not after they return home and forget half of the things)

A feedback box would be easy to implement, but then you'd either have to write your feedback by hand, or have a printer with you. On the other hand, the forum isn't offline during the convention, nothing stops you from posting feedback right away :) You don't have to wait.

Quote
better wifi coverage (and shorter DHCP leases! or more IP addresses...)

Yup, we're aware of that, and working on it :) We're improving wifi coverage step by step ... unfortunately, professional equipment that can handle 2000 people in one space has been beyond our budget so far, and mesh networking simply doesn't work well in this building.

Quote
the registration on this forum is misleading. Maybe the mail was lost or something, but I never received the second email when the account was eventually activated. I only received the first email that said that I needed to wait for the registration to be approved and that I would receive a second email when that happens. So basically my account here was active since September and I didn't know

I'm sorry to hear that. The forum is configured to send out activation emails. Maybe it was caught in your spamfilter?

Quote
The registration system doesn't allow you to specify the country that will be displayed on the badge, it defaults to the country of residence. And the rules say that it's forbidden to cover any part of the badge.

We need to know people's full address, and that includes the country. If you enter the wrong country, you'll end up submitting an invalid address, and legally that will void your contract with us. So please don't do that.

I'm sorry if people misinterpret the "country" field on your badge as a "language" field - I can see why that causes an inconvenience to you, and possibly one or other awkward situation. But we're dealing with a complex problem here.  Theoretically it's possible to have separate country of birth, country of residence and nationality - and it's even perfectly legal to have more than one country of residency within the EU, and multiple nationalities are also possible. And the actual languages spoken may not have anything to do with either of these - and a large percentage of attendees is multi-lingual.

So, what should we ask for, and where should we put all this information? If we put a single language field on the badge, I see the opposite problem that people will assume that the wearer speaks only speaks one language.

We once had the idea of handing out little country-flag-buttons that people can clip on to their lanyard to indicate their spoken languages - but that never took off because of the production costs.

So I'm afraid, at the moment I see no other way than to actually talk to people to find out which languages they're fluent in.

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I spent the first 5 minutes when talking to ANYBODY by explaining that I'm not German both at EF17 and EF18. It gets REALLY annoying after the 20th time in the same hour (no, I'm not joking about this)

I have a pragmatic little suggestion: How about getting a custom badge made that says "please talk english to me" or similar, and wear it next to your official badge?
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Jumpy on 27.11.2012, 00:31:54
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The registration system doesn't allow you to specify the country that will be displayed on the badge, it defaults to the country of residence. And the rules say that it's forbidden to cover any part of the badge.

We need to know people's full address, and that includes the country. If you enter the wrong country, you'll end up submitting an invalid address, and legally that will void your contract with us. So please don't do that.

I'm sorry if people misinterpret the "country" field on your badge as a "language" field - I can see why that causes an inconvenience to you, and possibly one or other awkward situation. But we're dealing with a complex problem here.  Theoretically it's possible to have separate country of birth, country of residence and nationality - and it's even perfectly legal to have more than one country of residency within the EU, and multiple nationalities are also possible. And the actual languages spoken may not have anything to do with either of these - and a large percentage of attendees is multi-lingual.

So, what should we ask for, and where should we put all this information? If we put a single language field on the badge, I see the opposite problem that people will assume that the wearer speaks only speaks one language.

We once had the idea of handing out little country-flag-buttons that people can clip on to their lanyard to indicate their spoken languages - but that never took off because of the production costs.

So I'm afraid, at the moment I see no other way than to actually talk to people to find out which languages they're fluent in.

Quote
I spent the first 5 minutes when talking to ANYBODY by explaining that I'm not German both at EF17 and EF18. It gets REALLY annoying after the 20th time in the same hour (no, I'm not joking about this)

I have a pragmatic little suggestion: How about getting a custom badge made that says "please talk english to me" or similar, and wear it next to your official badge?

While the correct country must be entered in the registration system, we occasionally do print manually corrected badges at registration on site, e.g. for typos or if someone becomes a sponsor last minute.

I would not allow changing real name or nickname (as this is easily abused), but I do not see a big problem if your badge displays a different country, as long as the correct info is in our database. If it is really that much of an annoyance to you, talk to us folks at registration next year. Most of the time there is at least one person there who can operate the badge printer.

Just please refrain from entering wrong information in the registration system. If we find out, you will not be allowed to attend EF again.
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Bostitch on 29.11.2012, 00:49:22
We once had the idea of handing out little country-flag-buttons that people can clip on to their lanyard to indicate their spoken languages - but that never took off because of the production costs.

We had something similar in the past at Ikea, when I was still working there, using small stickers on the namebadge to indicate which languages were spoken, it works quite well. 

Just an idea off the top of my head: instead of adding flags in a physical form afterwards, would it be possible to add a section to the registration system, where people can select one or more languages (with a maximum of 4-6) from a list, and the corresponding flags are then automatically printed onto the badge? Could fit either next to, or instead of, the country of residence.

(I do realise there are countries that have multiple official languages, and it will make some people grumpy, for instance Canadians having to choose a Union Jack and/or the Tricolore. But then, there's no pleasing everyone.)
Title: Re: EF18 Feedback
Post by: Cheetah on 29.11.2012, 01:23:41
Just an idea off the top of my head: instead of adding flags in a physical form afterwards, would it be possible to add a section to the registration system, where people can select one or more languages (with a maximum of 4-6) from a list, and the corresponding flags are then automatically printed onto the badge? Could fit either next to, or instead of, the country of residence.

We thought about that, but you'd end up with having about 5x6mm per flag, and they would be pretty much unrecognizable at that size.