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Eurofurence Information => Feedback => Topic started by: Dragon on 20.08.2017, 01:48:56

Title: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Dragon on 20.08.2017, 01:48:56
Even though I already have to leave in several hours and should probably be asleep by now, here you have my part of feedback for EF23:

TL;DR - Good EF with some flaws at the Estrel side of things.

I'll start with the negatives, because why not:

- Horrible air/climate in most of the hotel's zones. Why have no side/roof windows been opened until Saturday?!
- Air conditioning clogged af, no way air can circulate, thus making the convention rooms unnecessarily hot. Estrel, please clean the filters of your A/Cs and they will magically work again!
- My first day of breakfast (Wednesday) was a catastrophy. When I got there at 9, there were lots of empty spaces at the buffet upstairs. It was slowly filling up after a while of waiting, but that has been way better in the past years.
- Several sausages were served almost raw at all days, not even a tiny bit roasted. Even though there seemed to be a huge demand, please let them have their time roasting.
- Due to the bad air in the hotel, the lobby and places around it seemed rather empty of suiters, except for Saturday, when someone finally let some fresh air in.

o New lobby feels okay, but I liked the old one more

+ Almost ever on time for events this year
+ It felt well organized to me
+ Moving the smokers away from the main entrance was a good step
+ After there have been issues with Daily Eurofurence on Thursday, because there were already none left at 9 in the morning, you could grab your copy even later in the day in the past days
+ Events were well distributed this year, at least for me
+ EF Prime was watchable most of the time this year, except some minor issues like blackscreen for a few minutes or some hiccups in the broadcasting here and then.
+ The Pawpet show, even with their little delays between the sets, was completely AWESOME. You did a devilishly good job with all the characters and sets, especially Ortha in my opinion. The expression of her face was stunning, even more with eyes lit. And because someone randomly asked for fun if we want plushies of her, YES I DO. :P ... but only if big enough. You totally got me there.

To see the general interest of Ortha after the show has been insane. It was really nice to be allowed up close, touching her or even get a photo with her. The croud around her all the time since she left the stage, which even followed her when going back to the workshop, underlines the awesome work you did there. It has also been a very nice move from the pawpeteers continuing giving her life when the croud was around, so that they could enjoy this piece of work up close. Nice to see they really have fun with what they're doing!
(https://drago.nz/EF23/IMG_2998s.jpg)
(Click here for Full Size pic) (https://drago.nz/EF23/IMG_2998s.png)
A huge thank you to the whole crew involved in the PPS!

It's possible I forgot lots of stuff, but that's what's been in my head now. I might add some more stuff when I'm home later today, when I let things replay in my head while riding the train for almost 6 hours over 8 hours. Thank you Deutsche Bahn!

I hope everyone will have a good and safe travel on their ways back home! Thanks for another good EF!

P.S. I'm open for any Ortha merchandise that might come up in the next months  ;D

Update:
o Small TVs left and right from the stairs to the stage would have been nice, so those sitting in the middle could comfortably view whatever is shown on the silver screens while parts of events are going on, that are not happening on stage.
+ To sit in front row and feel the soundwaves hitting you was a great experience. It's a good thing to spend more money for better sound. It surely was worth it. The Pawpet Show had an awesome sound atmosphere with all the speakers.
+ There were two of three elevators broken in wing one in the morning of the 20th, which were already being repaired while we got down to breakfast. When we returned, they were working again. Good job on a Sunday!
+ Checkout was easy again this year.

Thank you all for making this event possible every other year!
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Angus on 20.08.2017, 13:44:01
- Several sausages were served almost raw at all days, not even a tiny bit roasted. Even though there seemed to be a huge demand, please let them have their time roasting.

As usual, please complain with the hotel on these issues immediately. It's their responsibility. And they can usually do something about it.

Quote
+ After there have been issues with Daily Eurofurence on Thursday, because there were already none left at 9 in the morning, you could grab your copy even later in the day in the past days

We didn't manage to assemble all the standees we had by Thursday morning. So we just had one standee at the lobby at that time. And this thing drained faster than we could refill it. From Friday onward we had two standees there.

Passt issues of this year's Daily Eurofurence should be available at ConOps throughout most of today.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Dragon on 20.08.2017, 21:12:05
Thanks for your reply.

As usual, please complain with the hotel on these issues immediately. It's their responsibility. And they can usually do something about it.

I did indeed complain about most things, there was some more stuff that happened.

We didn't manage to assemble all the standees we had by Thursday morning. So we just had one standee at the lobby at that time. And this thing drained faster than we could refill it. From Friday onward we had two standees there.

It worked out well in the end. Thanks for your effort. :)
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Ragear on 20.08.2017, 22:25:56
basically all what Dragon said ...

Hotel:
1) Usual good and corteous service. Employees seem to like us. Noticed no furry ears and snow leopard waiter this year though :)
2) A bit stuffy climatewise in some places.
3) why are alternative walkways closed? Namely between 1 and 2 ...
4) I somehwat missed an excuse from the hotel/ ihotelier for the mess caused. Not that we are a bunch of snowflakes in general but a lot of people have been upset.
5) Lobby: we'll have to live with it until the new tower :) cooler but I liked the old outfit more ... but I am an old lion.
6) Breakfast until 11 THU-SUN minimum (SUN even till 12)? Please? Though ... lobby was pretty quite at 4am, we used to be more partysome? :) though the Biergarten was still populated weather permitting.
7) the bistro where one could grab small bits was a very nice idea and allowed to stay at the hotel at a reasonable cost :) Missed the ice cream place at first but frozen yogurth was available to alleviate the pain ...
8) I welcome the fact that Estrel would like to take hotel reg back in it's own paws ...

EF (w/o pps)
1) didn't note anything negative aside from usual delays which are folk lore :) and I don't need to know all of them. Maybe a radar enforced speed limit for wheeled contraptions?
2) Suitwalk: any shorter and we'll just circle once around the suit lounge :) though I see the reasoning. But fursuit group photo should (imho: must) be a part of the suit walk! And only in case of dire emergency not outside in the biergarten theather.

I'd like to express my deepest thankfulness to anybody involved staffwise for making this possible again!

pps:
It was nothing short of a blast. I am looking forward to see a video again for all the nice details, and Ortha was one of the most fascinating "paw"pet ever conceived, drawing a tear in my eye when I saw her being shown to the audience and just winking and moving a bit. Would love to see her again :) Marvellous!!

best regards

Ragear
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Greldon on 21.08.2017, 22:18:43
Well, what shall I say... Again a wonderful grat experience.
First of all, many and heartly thanks to all the people which have participated to that great experience.

But now some thins I want to mention in particular

1) Pawpet Show
@Cheetah / Eisfuchs:
What should I say... You have broke my heart with that story and you managed to get my eyes moist. To make it short, it was for me the best one since EF 8... so far, my favourite has been the show from EF 11 (back in Nürnberg). But this year... simply fantastic.
The only thing I am sad about is the fact that I have missed the chance to give Ortha a hug.

2) Fursuiter Lounge
Well, first, I want to thank all of you for providing it and for the drinks and all... but, unfortunately, this time please allow me some criticism.
For receiving the fursuiter badge you have to bring your head with you. That's okay and that gives me the feeling that this way noone without legitimation will be able to enter the lounge later. But then... I have never been asked to show my fursuiterbadge when I entered the lounge. Sometimes there hasn't be any security there at all. I understand it if noone is around at the early morning or so... but not during the day when many people get in and out. I just wish there would have been more controls.
And then I was missing the small mini-lounge. Okay, this year it was not possible to provide it since there was now the breakfastroom, but maybe next year again somewhere in the lobby?

3) Fursuiter Group Foto
I have been very unhappy about the time: The Game show wasn't over yet, interesting panels at the same time... why not before or right after the fursuitwalk or simply later the day? The hall as location for it is perfect on the other side. The stairs down to the Biergarten are nearly impossible for me to step down in my suit...

Kind regards
Greldon
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Shade on 21.08.2017, 22:36:30
Fursuit Lounge is the only critic point I want to mentioned.

From Tuesday till Sunday, I attend the Convention and I never saw someone by the fursuit lounge to ask for my fursuit badge. I saw that some took photos in the FL and that non furries was there one time as well.

In the old Hotel in Madgeburg, the security was way better. I know it is not easy to find helper but this makes the Fursuit Lounge so different to US convention. Huge, good service (water, soda, candy and security).

But Eurofurence was awesome again and I will attend next year as well.

~Shade
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: ANTIcarrot on 22.08.2017, 04:36:14
I enjoyed several things about this year quite a bit more than last year. Though that is partially due to getting a last minute room at the Estrel. ^.^

I also enjoyed the pawpet show -and will be commenting on that separately.

I'm not sure what changed, but the Art Show Closing seemed much faster and less chaotic than last year. Sadly I only won one thing, but that meant I could spend my reserve funds on the Dealer's Den instead. 8)

Finally queueing for various shows seemed to go better this year.

A lot of the custom decoration looked fantastic. The 'do not touch' backdrop in the atrium in particular.

The 'lego cushions' were a lot of fun. Especially seeing groups working together to precisely comply with EF's instruction that no structures be more than 4 cubes high. ;D

And I was very pleased to hear we were just shy of 3,000 attendees this year.

Question about the breakfast arrangement: Thursday onwards we were punted into the Atrium & Estrel hall. Is that likely to happen next year? It clears up the lobby area but unfortunately occupies a lot of convention space that could possibly be put to better use.



I feel there were some issues this year though...

Crowd control & choke points:
Between the lobby and atrium there are three access points, and at times on Tuesday and Wednesday two of them got completely blocked off. One via the registry line, and the other via photographers crowded in front of the 'do not touch' backdrop, and in front of the doors. It would have been nice if the backdrop could have been located in the Atrium where the bouncy castle was last year. I know there was something there the last two years, but the 'posing couch seems to have made a difference this year.

If not maybe have security standing by next year with some squirty water bottles to discourage such behaviour.

Signage:
Something of a minor issue but it's a little unfortunate that the only sign for Tuesday's registration queue looked something like this:
Quote
FURSUIT BADGE
Pick up and printing
In front of Fursuit Lounge
I know Deutsch likes to put key concepts at the end of a sentence, but maybe this isn't a good way to put signs together.  ;)


The Artists lounge was slightly bigger this year, which was good, and I'm told by people with better judgement than I that the lighting conditions were far superior to last year. However...

All the plug sockets were locked away. Part way through Wednesday, EF was able to partly unlock one of these, and supply two tables with power, which left a ~10cm hole in the floor covered with nothing but duct-tape - and the rest of the room without electrical power. While a majority of artists still use a variety of traditional media, some of us use computers and touch-pads, and we were not well supported this year. This was reported to Con Ops on several occasions. Can Eurofurence please clarify with the hotel that the artists lounge is a place where electrical equipment needs to be plugged in, and appropriate access points need to be arranged.

I also feel it is unfortunate that it was put within shouting distance of the open stage; particularly on Friday night during the cat-strangling karaoke competition, when some of the contestants seemed to lose all sense of volume control. It might be nice if these two events could be a little more separated in future years.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: meo on 22.08.2017, 08:13:49
My feedback for EF23:

TL;DR - Good EF with some flaws at the Estrel side of things.

To be a copycat I'll start with the negatives too:

- The Air Problem: While the Estrel could have open the roof much earlier (or didn't even close it in the first place) they left it closed on both Tuesday and Wednesday till around noon. Giving all of us a great warm welcome of humid Air and Wallpaint! Yes this had been reported to the front desk but they simply said they can't open them manually.
- Not consistent Prices: The drink prices where not consistent and even change sometimes from waiter to waiter. For example Coke 0,5 liter are supposed to cost 8,00 but when you ask to not have lemon inside the price magically goes up to 8,20. Same goes for Ice! Thank god they didn't fill up the glasses all the way again with frozen water.
- The decor felt like we where only allowed to put up the "do not touch Wall". Please talk to the Hotel next year so we can decorate more.
- - No Badgecontrol at the Entrance to the rotunda. Seriously guys, when we have the Conventionspace for registered ones only control the Badges! There where at least two Family (one time 5 the other time 9 Persons) that simply ignored the signs and went straight in (yes we talked to them), and nope, that was not on a concert day. We all know that we don't have a lot of security ones for disposal but dropping at least one there with a chair would make it better imho!

o New lobby feels okay, but the Estrelstube in particular now feels way more tight being cut by the new stairs.

+ EF Prime nearly never fuckd up this year and got constantly good performances in Hall 1 with just a short black screen by the storm
+ Breakfast in the Estrel Hall was in my opinion way quieter and therefore enjoyable than the years before
+ Not as much Press is a plus for me too, because someone simply don't want to play hide and seek with the cameras
+ "your first furcon panel" on the first day is a must for the youngsters. Finally giving it this block quite next to the opening was a huge improvement imho, thanks Programplaning team.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: nobs on 22.08.2017, 10:26:45
"me too"  ;D

I enjoyed EF Prime. Did it run longer this year? I watched it till the late departure morning this year. I really liked that. Of course it is a "heavy rotation" loop, but it gives a better "background noise" than all the other channels. And the Twitter stream is fun.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Nathalias on 22.08.2017, 22:42:20
Well... another EF (my 4th) has come to an end... and it was a great time as ever.

What I really liked:

- first of all: the Paw Pet Show! It is just marvellous what you put on stage there. Especially Ortha ;-) But I also liked the other characters and the story. Keep up the fabulous work. This show alone is worth coming to EF. Who needs Hollywood Blockbusters when we can have the Pawpet Show ;-)
- Peper Coyote live on stage. I already hoped for last year that he would come because of his work on Hashtag together with Fox Amoore. This year he showed up and it was just great. I had a really good time during the concerts. Hope it wasn't his only visit to EF.
- the howl bunch of fursuiters making the place as fluffy as ever ;-)
- the fursuit locker service: even while using it only for a few hours at the beginning between registering for the fursuit badge and the opening of the fursuit lounge, it was a great help to have a place to store my suitbox.
- the decoration, fitting this years theme very well. Even if the Atrium could have used some deco as well, I really liked it.
- Neon Dance: very cool alternative to the fursuit friendly dance with cool music, a big thank to the DJs
- the EF App for Windows Phone, it is working really good (yes, I am one of the few users ;-)

Some points that could be improved:

- the little oasis was really missing... ok, the hotel needed the space for themselves this year, so I hope it will be returning next year
- the schedule of the events: Paws on Fire and the Fursuit Gameshow at the same time was really bad, since these were two events I really wanted to see (because both includesas fursuiters on stage doing cool things). I hope there will be recodrings of Paws on Fire on YouTube or something else so I can see the performances at least there. The timing for the fursuit groupfoto was also not the best... even if Enter the Arena would have ended on time it would have been a really short period to get into suit. Maybe it should be moved to the end of the fursuit parade again.
- waiting in line for the charity concert at the club stage was a bit hot until the windows were opened. Maybe for next year that should be done earlier.
- and at last: yes, I didn't like those portable speakers and howling too...


As conclusion I can say that beeing not in the Estrel but somwehre outside didn't turn out that bad as i feared. The only thing I really missed was the good breakfast from the Estrel.


So... a big "THANK YOU" to all who have made this Eurofurence possible and waiting another year for the next Eurofurence.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: djem on 23.08.2017, 11:45:10
Just gonna do a few points fast :

- Moving the smoker space from front entrance to secondary was not a solution. It smelled like cigaret even in the upper floor of wing 3 ! It just moved the problem. A space away from doors should be chosen.

- The Estrel lobby/bar. Why closing so early even when still packed ? Where was the nice cheap drink options we had the previous year ? All the staff with tail and ears ? EF prime playing on the TV's ? I really miss all that.

- Air-conditioning. In some rooms, it seems to have worked perfectly, but in places like the DD when you entered it really felt moisty and warm. Same in the lobby sometimes.

Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Reshi on 23.08.2017, 16:04:58
Thank you all for the wonderful con experience once again, and I have to say that this might be favorite EF so far! (or well, my first one will always be #1 for me, but this year was really close second atleast)
It was also my first time as a sponsor and all the benefits I got were totally worth the extra price, might even go supersponsor next year!

+ The theme was something I wasn't too crazy about first but I loved the decorations, conbook, sponsor gifts etc. So I ended up really liking the theme a whole lot than I thought!
+ Nothing was extremely late and I didn't really mind the delays since they weren't too long
+ Fursuit lounge was awesome as always, I really liked the ice tea and iced coffee choices for drinks! And I could find a spot to dry my head and hands almost everytime I got to the lounge, even during peak times like after the parade and all
+ No place felt overly crowded

My cons are mostly just about Estrel and they were notified about all of these points! But I still wanna mentoin them here

- Our room A/C was really cold all the time and we couldn't turn it down, unless we notified the reception. At one point we just gave up since it was annoying to always go ask them to come and crank it down lol (the system in our room was weird) *Estrel was notified about this
- Our room keys stopped working alot, and we had to go fix them all the time, even after we got to replace them. On Saturday we decided not to bother anymore since we were mostly going to the room together anyway with my roommate. Yes we made sure they are not in contact with any electric devices or anything, the cards just constantly stopped working right after the other one was fixed xD *Estrel was notified about this

+/- On most days, the schedule overlapped all the time but that's just my taste and not something to blame the people who made the schedule! I still got to see some really nice panels and stuff even tho I couldn't attend everything.
+/- Not really a con for me personally, since it didn't bother me/I didn't notice it at the con, but rather just remembered it; I don't think I saw anyone at the Fursuit Lounge checking for badges after Wednesday or so... This might have been an issue to some people and I hope they notified the lounge workers about it!

I can't really think of any cons about EF really! It was amazing con and I can't wait to be back again next year, hopefully the hotel reservation is less of a mess next time!
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: James The Dog on 23.08.2017, 20:38:31
- Moving the smoker space from front entrance to secondary was not a solution. It smelled like cigaret even in the upper floor of wing 3 ! It just moved the problem. A space away from doors should be chosen.

+1

While moving it away from the main entrance and the steps down to the road was a big help and improvement, they just moved it in front of the entrance to the other atrium, with the doors open, so that area flooded with smoke instead- and that's the area you have to walk through to get to and from the main con space. Moving smokers away from open doors is definately what's needed.

Also, it reminds me why I won't be attending BLFC any time soon, as that's in a hotel that actually allows smoking INSIDE and you have to walk through it to get around

Quote
- The Estrel lobby/bar. Why closing so early even when still packed ? Where was the nice cheap drink options we had the previous year ? All the staff with tail and ears ? EF prime playing on the TV's ? I really miss all that.

I definately missed EF prime on the TVs in the lobby. In past years I've been keeping an eye on it when sitting in the lobby and sending lots of tweets there. With it not being on in the lobby, and spending little non-sleeping time in my room, I barely saw it and I think I only sent a couple of tweets to it.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Khirdras on 23.08.2017, 20:47:03
For me it was a great convention.
Especially the Pawpet-show was amazing and the highlight of all events.
Story, the puppets and the soundtrack - awesome!

Nevertheless there are a few things I want to mention, which in my opinion require some improvement

Registration:
The splitting in two seperate queues for receiving the badge and the t-shirt wasn't organized well without any signs where to queue for what:
Next year please some signs: "Queue here for Registration","Queue here here for T-Shirts" etc.
To hand out the fursuiter's badges an in the fursuiter's lounge was a good idea.

I have missed badly the mini schedule event plan for the trouser pocket, like the last years.
By the way, all my friends missed it as well.

Fursuit Lounge:
I really appreciate the "Show your Head - practice", even though it is uncomfortable. But i like the plus of security.
But this year nobody after the official begin of the convention checkes the Fursuiter's Badges at the entrance of the Fursuiter's Lounge. Not very secure, I dare to say.
And I have missed the second lounge, the small one near the Lobby. Of course. there was the breakfast room that year, but maybe it will be possible the next year to establish that small lounge somewhere else in the lobby.
 

Convention Zone:
Here also a lack of badge control.

Games Corner:
I like to play Card Games (Magic the Gathering for Instance), but I wasn't able to play during this Convention, since the Games Corner opened only after 9.00 PM (21 Uhr). So if I want to join the main events, I can't use the Games corner.
During the morning hours and early afternoon there was no opportunity to find someone to play.
Of course I understand that staff is needed for keeping an eye on the consoles etc and that these people doing that job don't have time during the day. Nevertheless I wonder if it would be possible in the future, to declare an empty room with a few tables and chairs to a Games Corner during the day? It would be highly appreciated.
 
 
Schedule:
This year the schedule of the events wasn't optimal. All events crowded during the evening hours. And a lot of events parallel, for example the Fursuit Group Photo.

T-Shirt:
The T-Shirt Motive wasn't my cup of tea that year. Too many flowers too less egyptian.
And the colour - I usually like beige as a colour for a T-Shirt, but this motive in gold would have had a better contrast on a black T-Shirt. In general, this year's t-shirt seems to be more suitable for females than for males...

Charity:
I love to help animals in need, but why can't we support a regional animal shelter in or around Berlin or an animal sanctuary like Gut Aiderbichl? Only a thought.

Hotel:
The bill wasn't correct two times: They charged my roommate a wrong roomfee and they charged me something from the minibar I didn't consume. Of course, it was refunded as we complained but I hope it was stress and not method.
The Air Conditioning in the whole Hotel was a desaster this year.
In our Room the only thing the A/C did was to produce noise. The service technician removed the filter, but with no effect.
The elevators (tower 2) - should I say more?

But all in all it has been a great convention.
The best improvement this year was in my opinion the seperate queue for the "common" sponsors. Thank you!
And a lot of thanks to all the staff doing a VERY good job and spending their free time for us.
I am looking forward to the next EF.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Dragon on 23.08.2017, 22:24:29
I have missed badly the mini schedule event plan for the trouser pocket, like the last years.
By the way, all my friends missed it as well.

They were on the table next to the registration desk. You must have not seen them :)
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Khirdras on 23.08.2017, 22:59:14
I have missed badly the mini schedule event plan for the trouser pocket, like the last years.
By the way, all my friends missed it as well.

They were on the table next to the registration desk. You must have not seen them :)

Thank you - i really have not seen them. But have not looked after them too. All the Years before they where IN the Conbook. No Information about that they were now seperate.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 23.08.2017, 23:23:28
pro:

Globally a very enjoyable convention,

I would like to thanks very kindly the several hundred of people who can make everything happen so that the rest of the attendees can enjoy their time for almost one whole week,
This is certainly no small achievement and Im really grateful for this.

Beside some small laden times and a few very specifics cases, everything went nicely, be it events, organization or services, and this is great.

The conop or secop staff I talked to were all nice and efficient as much as possible, thank you very much.

Very fast registration,
I noticed you had a lot of people doing it at the same time.

The pocket travel guide,
I dont know if many people noticed that, but I found that to be a very nice, informative and useful leaflet.

Generally good information,
I certainly appreciated the notifications through the phone app.

The Camp Fire,
I love that place, big thank you again to the staff taking care of the fire.

The Pawpets Show,
amazing Ortha of course, wonderful and lively not-dragon beast ;)
Special kuddo for the person (Im bad with name sorry) who was carrying her on his back during the show and even after!
Also impressive special effect, between the "slow time" during telepathic events and the airplane dog(less)fight. You did surprise me with these scene where you used the front of the performance scene for side to side pass-by, either for the planes or for Ortha, nice use of blacklight lighting!
The show was very very much enjoyable (though not for the sheep ;) ).
Be careful though, I understand the feeling of trying more and more impressive tricks and stunts for your show, but it's also part of cause of the meltdown at EF20, though I guess you dont really need me to recall you that.
As Cheetah said it himself, the show had its handful of small technical problems, but these kind of things dont bother me, as they are likely to happen during a live show, especially of such extent. So many people dont understand a large scale pawpet show is more complicated to do that a more common play with real actors, ah well.
Big applause for all the people who make this happens, between the pawpetters, voices, stage crew, stage artistes, sound and light technician, video artists, music artists, im sure im forgetting some other, sorry about that, great teamwork, simply.


con:

Artshow tails segregation rule:
This is totally unacceptable. I agree I may not have been exceedingly polite about it, but this completely rubbed me the wrong way.
I understand and agree with the idea of preventing damages to fragile sculptures, but I disagree with the way it is implemented.
This is a furry community where tails are common and asking people to remove their tails before entering is both quite undignified and highly bothersome.
Of course banning tails is the easiest way to prevent potentials damage and thats most probably why that solution was chosen,
but I think there are other ways to offer the same protection level without highly inconveniencing visitors, while still staying as simple as possible, meaning easy to implement and not cause the artshow staff an over increase of work.
That said, I would like to thanks Cairyn for telling me on Saturday at the art pickup that it was recognized the tail ban may not have been the most acceptable solution and that it may be improved next year, I appreciated you told me so and I will certainly appreciate any alternatives.
On my side I will try to provide (and test beforehand) some ideas, as I certainly doesnt want to be just the guy who just spit and rant but does nothing, the artshow is after all the biggest highlight of the con for me.
Again I am very thankful for all the work done to setup the art show and make the whole bidding and auction possible year after year.

Airflow in the staircase to Club Stage ECC Room 1:
That staircase with the glass walls became very quickly very hot and unpleasant for all the people waiting before all the events in that room.
For me first on Friday for the Paws on Fire then Saturday for the charity concert.
I appreciate secop listened to me on Saturday (though I had to insist a little bit) about the possibility of opening the transoms windows near the ceiling and opening the outside door at the bottom. After a kind staff found how to open the windows and the door, the temperature became very quickly much more viable.
I also noticed the pieces of clothes near the doors, I guess thats where it flooded during the heavy rain so I can understand the door and windows may not be left open at all time.

General identity/badge check at the artist lounge:
What, why?
My guess is you may have been seeking for some unregistered people which may have "infiltrated" the convention and squatting the lounge, but quite some of my artists friends have been stressed by that event, maybe there is a less stressful way to do that without seeing some impressive and intimidating security staffs doing a general id check?


some general comments:

Dealers den is getting too crowded and the sellers close to the windows are simply dying all day.
I know the rooms allocation is a headache, but the dealers den area has not increased at all in 4 years,
even with the addition of the rotonda/artist alley, which helped a little bit, but even that is reaching its limit.

The events grid is becoming increasingly stuffed.
Of course this is to cover all the different interests of the attendees, but as a result the possibilities of overlap and domino effect are increasing.
Since I dont see any interest group agreeing about getting "their" event suppressed, I only see having the day "last longer" as in pushing back the dances 30min~1h later, but guess this may have already been considered/discussed ?


final note:

thank you all for all the work, between the convention itself and all my friends, I didnt see time pass and that usually a sign of much enjoyment.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Token on 24.08.2017, 00:50:58
Concerning the ArtShow entrance rules:

I take full responsibility for messing this up!

I am responsible for managing security at the ArtShow and also briefing new recruits on how to handle things. And I did not communicate correctly with the team on how to handle tails and similar things. This has caused the 'no tail at all'-rule to be suddenly implemented somewhere during thursday. It was decided to not wobble the rules back and forth and keep it up, especially since the room got a lot more crowded towards the closing.

Thus, I fully understand the frustration it caused! Let a two-tailed rat tell you that we also love tails and are sorry for making some people take it off! We strive for a very high quality in the Art Show, to provide artists an exclusive and quality space to show their art without the danger of it being broken (which had sadly happened more than once before).
It was an inconvenience, especially with the locker service somewhat further away.
Again, my apologies!

We will try to clear things up with the ArtShow directors and improve on this next year. Hopefully you still had the chance to enjoy the wonderful art and eventually even bin on something.

Best wishes,
Token
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: BigBlueFox on 24.08.2017, 02:10:09
As the person respondible for EF Prime, please allow me to adress a few of the comments made:

"Heavy Rotation": EF Prime originally is supposed to air from Wednesday, 12:00 to Sunday, 12:00. This is when we have booked access to the hotel distribution system, and when the actual programming is up. Due to the generousity of the hotel and their tech crews, it can stay on for much longer than that, and it starts much earlier also, mostly during setup of stage. Now, I'm just never able to collect enough unique content for the core hours, and with every extra hour we're broadcasting, it gets more obvious that there is a heavy rotation. I will see what I can do about that in the future, I already started re-broadcasting past years shows to avoid too many repeats.

"No EF Prime in lobby": This will be back next year. This year, the new and refurbished lobby just opened up a few days before we arrived, some of you might have noticed the one or other painter still doing their job here and there. The hotel wanted to have the lobby presentable in the state it was supposed to be, so not a single change was allowed, that includes the TVs that stayed tuned into the channels they were supposed to show. The newness of the lobby also was responsible for a complete lack of decoration in it, especially since certain things couldn't be done because a few official prodecures had not been finished that are required by law.

We are fully confident that all these things are going to be back next year. For now, let's just be happy that the hotel worked so hard on getting the lobby done so we could enjoy all of the space. :)

A few glitches happened here and there, and we had quite a lot of new team members in order to distribute work even more to avoid these in the future. However, none of us is ever perfect, but I can promise you we're trying our best to keep improving!
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: MOW on 24.08.2017, 04:37:20
Thank you - i really have not seen them. But have not looked after them too. All the Years before they where IN the Conbook. No Information about that they were now seperate.

Not all of the stuff supposed to go in the conbook was there from the start on Tuesday, so in the beginning we didn't have enough pre-stuffed conbooks. If you checked in rather early on Tuesday, that might be why.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Suicune on 24.08.2017, 05:40:55
I actually got nothing major to complain regarding organisation, this was one of the best EFs organisationwise and I had a lot of fun. :)
I know that the Estrel got things done just in time and they still have to adjust decoration, light, etc.

+ Usage of available convention space while Estrel was being busy with renovating their Lobby etc. The "Lego Cube Corner" with Estrels old sofas in the Atrium was used a lot. Also the additional sofas etc. in the open stage area added a lot of comfortable places to hang around.
+ Locker Service. I didn't use it, but I'm sure it was useful to some.
+ The PawPet Show was gorgeous! Sweet soundtrack! I really liked the characters and especially love Ortha. Such a lovely Dragon and such cute noises you gave her. <3 Made my eyes watery all the time. ^_^ (Excuse my caps on EF Prime Twitter after the PPS :D)
Also nice that you used UV light again and the UV light reflecting paint background from "End Tide".
+ EF Prime almost had no hiccups. My friggin great product of a Philips TV had more.
+ First Day hadn't enough Daily EF Newspapers. This was solved on the next day.


o Replacing the reg corner into a lockable room for safety and using the old place for seating may have been a good idea, but the queue blocked almost the whole Atrium and the Lobby entrance to it which already is a tight space. This needs more organisation next time.
o Good that the Rotunda and everything behind it was attendee only.
But there was no one actually enforing that rule. Also the banner - even if it's huge - was kinda easy to oversee and only in english. Maybe a sign/poster right, middle and left would be better if Estrel allows it.
o Not sure who decided to move the smokers away from the main entrance, if hotel alone or if ConOps plead them to do so and they said "OK", but it was about time! It's great that it finally happenend. The smell always flew into the Lobby which was really dusgusting and unhealthy for the Estrel employees anyway.
But it was just moving the problem from one entrance to another. After moving them to the Atrium the smell flew into the Atrium >_>" And simply closing the door there isn't a good thing to do in summer, so it remained open. Is the smoker lounge so tiny that people don't want to/can't use it?
o There were delays as usual, but delays apparently didn't get delays, so were well calculated. Information about that came early enough which is also nice.
o Uhm.. why exactly do like 100 people queue up really early before Closing & PPS, take a place in the front rows, if they leave right after closing? ô_ô Like 1/3 of the front row went empty right after closing. Sure, you see everything etc., but is it really neccessary to take the best places if you only stay for 10 Minutes?

- People, seriously... As far as I saw that we never really used the frigging queue system during breakfast for the past 3 years, so why did you start doing it now? Just because we are in germany and people here tend to use it even just to get a single piece of bread for no reason whatsoever, doesn't mean you have to do that as well every time. It pretty much hold up everyone and made everything taking longer than neccessary.
Why queueing up when the person in front of me only wants a piece of cheese which ist at the beginning of the food thingy whil I want a sausage which is at the other end? It's ridiculous.
- Don't fucking awoo in rooms with great echo, please, kthx. -_-"
- I was really missing the Oasis. Walking all the way to the lounge and on the way down the stairs is a little bit annoying.
- The white ugly tables in the Atrium weren't really useful for anything but blocking space that would have been needed. I hardly saw anyone using them throughout the day.
- The painting of the planes in the PPS was too plain. I missed details like a H&F company logo or simply seams which spearate diffent plane parts. Would have given then a better look.
- If you were sitting in the first 2-3 rows looking at the screen was really uncomfortable. A solution for this would really be appreciated if possible.

Estrel side of things:
The bigger available space we had in the Lobby was nice. But honestly, regarding style, I liked the old one with its warm colors more. I dislike that super modern style. I hope they put up some decoration to make it feel warmer and cosier. Also dimm the lights when it's dark, it was way too bright, this felt really odd. Guess they may put up light spending decoration before they do that.
This italien architect who was in charge of the style didn't really put usability in foreground. These round breakfast tables are hardly enough for 2 people. And the chairs are not the most comfortable ones. I hope he isn't mad that we declared his paw-tables - which identify as chairs - to be tables. They aren't comfortable.
And yeah, the heat in the Lobby & Atrium until friday was unbearable. Well, air was equal inside & outside on friday until this lovely thunderstorm came. (And you still got wet below the roof because it's leaking.) The air was great on Saturday where the temps fell by like 10°C and they probably had the windows open all night.
And yeah, as mentioned at the beginning on the thread, maintaining ACs and other things should be done. The ACs filter needed to be openend/removed in ECC room 5 to make them work. Also all windows we tried to open before were malfunctioning and needed multiple tries to be able to be opened.
I keep wondering why no guest or housekeeper before I arrived reported the dripping toilet connection or hardly working tv remote. Or not working wifi in my wing corner.
The pyjama party housekeeper were nice as always and adjusted to the guests habits after 2-3 days. ^^

The biggest disappointment during EF was my body acting up for apparently no reason and making me feel tired most time of the con. I'm sad that I couldn't really attend the dances on Thu&Fri. Saturday was the only day I felt good. :|

Special thanks to the braindead Nazis and left winged naked monkeys who made our travel home taking 1hr or 1 1/2hrs longer and stressfull. Good job yo... -_-"
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Alpha_Ki on 24.08.2017, 08:47:38
....

Dealers den is getting too crowded and the sellers close to the windows are simply dying all day.
I know the rooms allocation is a headache, but the dealers den area has not increased at all in 4 years,
even with the addition of the rotonda/artist alley, which helped a little bit, but even that is reaching its limit.

...

Hello Fafnir, I fully agree with you. We need a larger room for all the dealers and the attendees but I don't know where we shall take that at the moment. We could rent the new extra halls with ECC2 but that would easily double the price for each attendee. Plus these halls have no daylight - ever tried to lock an artist away? No good idea... really no good idea. You could also cuddle with a blind hungry tiger instead. ;D
Most of the artist and dealer in the Den prefer overheating instead of 24/7 artificial light.

I really really hope that with the new part of the Hotel, more rooms and more function space I finally get a solution to my main problem. The room is not made for so many people - that's why the air conditioning isn't the best. The only step we can do for next year: Less artists and dealer in the Den. But honestly that can't be the solution to go.
If you have a solution I haven't thought about - let me hear. :)
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 24.08.2017, 10:11:17
Hello Fafnir, I fully agree with you. We need a larger room for all the dealers and the attendees but I don't know where we shall take that at the moment. We could rent the new extra halls with ECC2 but that would easily double the price for each attendee. Plus these halls have no daylight - ever tried to lock an artist away? No good idea... really no good idea. You could also cuddle with a blind hungry tiger instead. ;D
Most of the artist and dealer in the Den prefer overheating instead of 24/7 artificial light.

I really really hope that with the new part of the Hotel, more rooms and more function space I finally get a solution to my main problem. The room is not made for so many people - that's why the air conditioning isn't the best. The only step we can do for next year: Less artists and dealer in the Den. But honestly that can't be the solution to go.
If you have a solution I haven't thought about - let me hear. :)

well, how much more would it cost to get a extra building room?

there are quite some pro and con about a closed space:
con: no sunlight, cost much more
pro: more space for dealers and for customer, more air volume and maybe adapted air conditioning, also with more space it may allow more people inside at the same time and less people queing at the entry

a lot of furs are interested in the dealers den, just seeing the quantity of people doing the queue every year, Im pretty sure an increase of price may (or course that depend of the exact amount) be accepted by most attendees.

as for closed space, as far as I know, the artist lounge has no sun light either and they spend quite some time there without that I noticed anything, but then im not a psychologue so I may simply not have noticed it, also they are more often there in the evening and night when sun is down, so you can tell me it wouldnt make any difference anyway.

have you tried submitting a query form to the dealers attending the dealers den, asking them if they had to choose between sunlight and no sunlight but more space and breathable air, what would they prefer ?

the same could be done with the attendee, asking them if they would be ok with a increased cost if they can access a larger dealers den with less queue (that of course depend of the cost inveolved)

do you have an estimate of the cost of renting a new larger building room ?

Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 24.08.2017, 10:16:16
We will try to clear things up with the ArtShow directors and improve on this next year. Hopefully you still had the chance to enjoy the wonderful art and eventually even bin on something.

Best wishes,
Token

thank you, I will look forward to next year with more peace of mind.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Alpha_Ki on 24.08.2017, 13:31:57
At the moment we could't anything else than renting the ECC2 and DOUBLE the price for EF for every attendee regardless if he or she is interested in the Dealers' Den or not. Plus some artist would not attend cause of the prize and that would mean we need less space.
Belive me, we roll around this problem and every possible solution sice the second year at the Estrel. As long we can't fill the second tower it has to stay as it is.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 24.08.2017, 15:36:02
At the moment we could't anything else than renting the ECC2 and DOUBLE the price for EF for every attendee regardless if he or she is interested in the Dealers' Den or not. Plus some artist would not attend cause of the prize and that would mean we need less space.
Belive me, we roll around this problem and every possible solution sice the second year at the Estrel. As long we can't fill the second tower it has to stay as it is.

well im not really surprised, as you said, if you had a better solution you would have done it already.

there is one thing im curious though, this years the convention covered more space than years before, with the addition of the ecc room 2 (which I dont remmeber we used before, as I dont remember having to wait in that glass staircase before), ecc foyer 4, where the artist lounge was relocated, and ecc something where conop was located.

where these spaces some kind of swap for the spaces previously located north of the charity booth ? (the glass ceiling room where the fursuit lounge was located in the past and the two rooms on the side previously used for conop and artist lounge) ?

Im kinda surprised the convention center management only propose you a all or nothing kind of deal to get more space, thats sort of sad from their part, but of course there are certainly plenty of details I do not know.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: meo on 24.08.2017, 17:06:49
Hello Fafnir, I fully agree with you. We need a larger room for all the dealers and the attendees but I don't know where we shall take that at the moment. We could rent the new extra halls with ECC2 but that would easily double the price for each attendee. Plus these halls have no daylight - ever tried to lock an artist away? No good idea... really no good idea. You could also cuddle with a blind hungry tiger instead. ;D
Most of the artist and dealer in the Den prefer overheating instead of 24/7 artificial light.

I really really hope that with the new part of the Hotel, more rooms and more function space I finally get a solution to my main problem. The room is not made for so many people - that's why the air conditioning isn't the best. The only step we can do for next year: Less artists and dealer in the Den. But honestly that can't be the solution to go.
If you have a solution I haven't thought about - let me hear. :)

Please tell us, how many of us are allowed to go in the den at the same time? At the rush hours it seems way to much. Sure, balancing between the queue and an overfilled den is a hard one, but i personally would prefer less in the den and have better air inside then overheating the room and causing a stampede where you can't simply watch the whole table of an artist before you got flooded away by "the wall of fluff" around you. The best time to buy this year was during the motorfurs event, since everyone went outside and the Den was nearly empty. You could with ease jump from table to table, look at all the stuff, chat with the artist and all in all have a better shopping experience.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Fafnir Kristensen on 24.08.2017, 17:19:35
The best time to buy this year was during the motorfurs event

or any other big event globally.

the first 2 days are usually very crowded as everyone want it's part of the loot, it tends to calm down a bit on the third day.

that said, I never had any problem chatting with the artists, well, maybe I had to wait a few minutes at worse.
though some areas seem to be more crowded than others, especially with fursuiters ;)
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Cairyn on 24.08.2017, 18:12:06
where these spaces some kind of swap for the spaces previously located north of the charity booth ?

In short, yes. Due to the renovations of the lobby, the breakfast area had been moved there (not knowing whether the renovations would be done in time), which forced the operations and events hosted there to move elsewhere. This year's room setup is an exception and will change again for 2018.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Carenath on 24.08.2017, 19:08:20
"No EF Prime in lobby": This will be back next year. This year, the new and refurbished lobby just opened up a few days before we arrived, some of you might have noticed the one or other painter still doing their job here and there. The hotel wanted to have the lobby presentable in the state it was supposed to be, so not a single change was allowed, that includes the TVs that stayed tuned into the channels they were supposed to show.
That answers one of my questions very nicely, thank you.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: James The Dog on 24.08.2017, 22:22:32
Will the bouncy castles be back next year?
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Atkelar on 24.08.2017, 22:25:19
There seems to be contradicting opinions about the "Fursuit Group Photo", so I feel obliged to clear things up as good as I can:

1.: The thing at the end of the parade, at the stairs to the beergarden - that is NOT the official fursuit photo, that is just a photo-op for the press. It is optional and problematic (huge stairs, end of parade overheating...) - which is why we have opted against having that as the official one. This never was and never will be the group photo for EF because of said issues.

2.: The actual one was put right in front of the fursuit friendly dance, at a location easily accessible by everyone, declared a headless area before the picture and well announced that the picture would be taken DURING that half hour timeslot.

3.: As for any delays, we cannot accumulate delays from unrelated events: the con would not even be over by now if every delay moved all other events  :P

Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Schorse on 25.08.2017, 00:53:35
Now me  :)

Hotel:
While the A/C in our room worked just fine, you almost needed a chain saw to get through the lobby. But I guess this "awesome" german summer weather had a large share on this problem.
Housekeeping was very friendly again.
But, 8€ for a bottle of water at the bar? WTF???

Main stage:
Most of us like music with a fat bass. But it sounded very booming this year. I know, these halls are an acoustic nightmare, but maybe we can figure out something. A huge pile of plushies at the backside wall might dampen the reflections a bit... ;D ;D

PPS:

ORTHA!!!!  Do I have to say more? ;)

Really, that is the most beautiful pawpet I've ever seen. Totally understandable that Cal left everything behind for her.
I could bite my ass off that I missed her tour through the lobby. *cries*  Please, bring her back next year.
The story was (again) well written and with reference to actual situations. It was a real surprise that none of the main characters had to die this time.
So there were only tears of joy this time (ORTHA!!!). Can't wait for the video of the show.

All in all, thank you very much for this awesome week!!!!!
*group hugs*
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Suicune on 25.08.2017, 17:46:11
Oh, and something else I noticed and annoyed me this year: Some missing knowledge of people (non suiter?) how to treat fursuiter!
I had it happen multiple times that:
- People hugged me without asking, some nearly threw themselves at me
- Rubbed & Scratched the fur against the pile - more and less aggressive
I mostly backed off instantly once someone did that.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Alastago on 25.08.2017, 23:12:03
This came up in the group chat and several people liked the idea so I'll just leave this small feedback here. Some other conventions offer lanyards with a safety breakaway clip. Such as this. (https://www.handyimprints.com.au/graphics/lanyard-attachments/safety-breakaway-clip-1.png) This is infinitely useful when fursuiting, as it makes getting the fursuit badge completely over the head a lot easier without fiddling(including a fan cable I have running from my head).
It would be wonderful if EF can offer lanyards like these, too.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Cubitus on 25.08.2017, 23:20:37
lanyards with a safety breakaway clip.
Useful!
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: James The Dog on 26.08.2017, 00:18:03
- People hugged me without asking, some nearly threw themselves at me

I've had that too. I hate it, it makes me uncomfortable. If i want hugs, I'll ask for them, and then it won't be from strangers. Though of course it's not something you can blame the con itself for. Some people seem to think if you're in suit then it's an invitation to be hugged and scritched- it isn't.

Sadly no matter how much you give this advice to attendees, some will still do it.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Suicune on 26.08.2017, 01:31:13
This came up in the group chat and several people liked the idea so I'll just leave this small feedback here. Some other conventions offer lanyards with a safety breakaway clip. Such as this. (https://www.handyimprints.com.au/graphics/lanyard-attachments/safety-breakaway-clip-1.png) This is infinitely useful when fursuiting, as it makes getting the fursuit badge completely over the head a lot easier without fiddling(including a fan cable I have running from my head).
It would be wonderful if EF can offer lanyards like these, too.

Forgetting putting on the badge before the head, how often did that happen to me... And taking off the head, adjust mask, putting on the badge and then head again is a little bit annoying, so it was fiddled over the head every time.
Would really appreciate openable lanyards. But I'm afraid a piece of plastic could be uncomfortable to wear when it's in the middle. At least when it comes to the lanyard size the EF uses right now. This snap system shown on the pic doesn't seem to be really safe when it's bad done. Afaik I got one of these and it opens too easy.
If you got an EF lanyard in the ticket color you use next year again, you could modify the one you already have.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: MOW on 26.08.2017, 23:50:27
This snap system shown on the pic doesn't seem to be really safe when it's bad done. Afaik I got one of these and it opens too easy.

The depicted system is not really made for repeated use and will wear out quickly.
However it would be quite easy to just cut the ribbbon and press a snap fastener/press stud (Druckknopf) on. Maybe offer such as a service, for charity?
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Tomkitty on 27.08.2017, 10:27:32
First of all i would like to thank all of the Staff Team to make this Eurofurence possible. It was once more a amazing event, and one of my highlights during this Year.

I would also like to give some feedback, regarding things that were especially positive to me, and also the things that were more on the negative side. Im aware, that some things are probably more in the responsibility of the hotel, nevertheless i would like to mention them too.

Pro:

-Overall organization and friendliness of the EF Staff and Security
-Neon Dance (A great addition to the dances in my opinion)
-Dead Dog Dance (i liked the location a lot, the DJs were once more a blast! What a Party!)
-Snack Buffet
-Paws on Fire (A must have for next Year!)
-The Egyptian Paradise Event (Fursuiters who serve you food and drinks, that was really nice :3)
-The Discount Leaflet for local restaurants
-Fursuit lounge

Con:
-Music Volume during the mainstage dances (to low)
-To much light during the mainstage dances (except for the fursuit friendly dance, where this is of course ok)
-No Tail rule in the artshow (thats just absurd)
-No Badge control/check at the rotunda
-Air condition in the hotel rooms seemed to function not properly
-Keycard check at the elevators was still active during the first days of the Con, delaying the use of the elevators
-Smell of the large waste bins at the Elevators (Probably because of the disposal of diapers and other personal hygiene products in them. Would it be possible to handout special waste bags to people who are dependant  on such things? I heard of other Cons doing so. Seems like a clean and easy solution, imho.)
-Mobile audio systems/speakers of some fursuiters. (It was kinda annoying, and appears to be the new way of getting more attention...)
-Closing ceremony (It was to short in relation how long people needed to queue for it)
-The already known delay problem with the pawpet show and the following events
-Paws on Fire and Gameshow during the same time.

Thank you & best regards

Tomkitty
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Nathalias on 28.08.2017, 00:18:26
@Atkelar: regarding the fursuit photo: I undestand that the stairs at the beergarden are problematic and understand why this idea was abandoned. My suggestion would be to go to the great hall for the photo directly after the parade. Yes, this may be too long for some to be in suit... but on the other hand a lot of people missed this years photo because of other events.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Futeko on 28.08.2017, 03:48:52
I also missed the Fursuit Group Photo due to a conflict with another event (namely Enter the Arena).
It takes me about 40 minutes to get to my room, get in suit, and come back down to the lobby. If there are any Main Stage Events still ongoing an hour before the photo, I have to choose between missing the end of that Event or missing the Fursuit Group Photo, which is a hard choice to make.

Maybe a morning slot like the regular Group Photo could be a compromise? That way, there should be much less chance of conflicting with a main stage event.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Atkelar on 28.08.2017, 12:56:57
I also missed the Fursuit Group Photo due to a conflict with another event (namely Enter the Arena).
It takes me about 40 minutes to get to my room, get in suit, and come back down to the lobby. If there are any Main Stage Events still ongoing an hour before the photo, I have to choose between missing the end of that Event or missing the Fursuit Group Photo, which is a hard choice to make.

Maybe a morning slot like the regular Group Photo could be a compromise? That way, there should be much less chance of conflicting with a main stage event.

@Atkelar: regarding the fursuit photo: I undestand that the stairs at the beergarden are problematic and understand why this idea was abandoned. My suggestion would be to go to the great hall for the photo directly after the parade. Yes, this may be too long for some to be in suit... but on the other hand a lot of people missed this years photo because of other events.

I can totally understand that and any suggestions are duly noted! Please bear in mind however, that it will be impossible to find a time and space that suits everybody. There has to be some compromise here and there. The "early morning slot" around noon promped many people to say "why that early? I'm asleep at that time!" - so there's always two sides to every option and we have to pick what we think is the least problematic one, based on feedback like yours! Next year needs to change for various reasons anyway, so let's see what we can come up with during next year's scheduling!
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Futeko on 28.08.2017, 13:51:22
I can totally understand that and any suggestions are duly noted! Please bear in mind however, that it will be impossible to find a time and space that suits everybody. There has to be some compromise here and there. The "early morning slot" around noon promped many people to say "why that early? I'm asleep at that time!" - so there's always two sides to every option and we have to pick what we think is the least problematic one, based on feedback like yours! Next year needs to change for various reasons anyway, so let's see what we can come up with during next year's scheduling!

No worries! I certainly can imagine how much of a nightmare programming events can be - especially with so much happening in so little time and with so many attendees. There just simply can't be a perfect solution.
So, thank you very much for all the work you put into developing & improving the solution every year - and for hosting the Photo in the first place!
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Shex on 01.09.2017, 10:56:26
First of all, awesome convention (and my first EF), I just have a few aspects

- Furs with portable music boxes were really getting annoying, especially sitting in the Artist Alley and them moving back and forth through it. Would it maybe be possible to give them a time slot or not allow them in places where people can't just move away? (which would be AA and DD I guess)

- many empty panels at the Art Show... I get how hard the organization must be, and I was really really really glad I god some space there, but I think there might be a way to fill the whole artshow up, maybe just remind people that there might be more room after all is set up, redistribute the unclaimed space after the regular setup is done? I'm not sure if there's an easy way that is not too labor intensive (guys, you've worked so much everytime I went to the Art Show .__.), but maybe just think about if there's another way

- crowded Dealer's Den. There really was barely any space to move, especially for the tables in the middle to the left, that were placed like a "U" shape. Not sure if there is a way to change that, since that room, as I heard, was the only one with windows and daylight. But from other Conventions I also know of Dealer's Dens that are in the basement, no natural light either, but only 6-8 hours opened, maybe that's an option?

- Artist Alley: There was an email, that people who applied for the Dealer's Den and didn't get in would be reserved a space in the Artist Alley, was that a thing? I was lucky that I was up early enough both days to get a spot, but I really liked the idea. Maybe a sign-up in the evening? Not sure how big the demand for tables even was.
I know that MFF has 3 days of Artist Alley and it is a lottery to get a spot, and if you didn't get a spot on either of the first two days, you are guaranteed one on the last day, I really like this idea. Also they have a screen showing all the artist names that currently sit in the Artist Alley, that was pretty helpful :)

also:
- make Artist Alley 3 days long, more time for more folks to sit there :)


One thing I wanted to address but was already solved: Prices on the midnight snack buffet of the Estrel. I noticed they didn't have prices written down on at least one day, it really kept me from buying. You never know if your Currywurst is 12 bucks or something. But the next day there was a nice list of the Snacks offered and the prices. That was goood!


Also, I'm pro 'no tails in the Art Show' rule, it might be ridiculous for people with like rabbit tails, but either everyone has to leave their tail outside, or everyone can take them in. And really, you don't want to hit a panel and throw down artwork. And it could happen so easily. Just stay with that rule :)

Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Cairyn on 01.09.2017, 13:23:49
- many empty panels at the Art Show... I get how hard the organization must be, and I was really really really glad I god some space there, but I think there might be a way to fill the whole artshow up, maybe just remind people that there might be more room after all is set up, redistribute the unclaimed space after the regular setup is done? I'm not sure if there's an easy way that is not too labor intensive (guys, you've worked so much everytime I went to the Art Show .__.), but maybe just think about if there's another way

Actually, we've been trying to solve the issue since years. We are no airline though, so we are not at liberty just to overbook the whole thing, and should it not work out, drag some artists out of the plane Art Show kicking and screaming.

This year we have introduced the "upgradable table" concept to allow artists to prepare more art (to be put on tables) and to upgrade to a panel directly at the show when it becomes available. However, the tables could be upgraded even before the actual show so the freed panels were not needed. I would like to emphasize (once again) to artists that the upgradable table is a nice option and should be used especially if you didn't get all the panels you desired in the beginning! There is always a good chance at more space if you are patient and come prepared.

In addition one event for which a full panel was reserved was dropped at the con, leaving the panel for other uses, and one panel could be set up that was not originally planned for, so there was even more additional space available than usual. Ultimately, it is up to the artists to make the best use of it; I can only make the offer and plan for the current demand.

(Btw, Thursday morning is indeed already dedicated to setting up additional artists and redistributing space that was unclaimed, but funnily it was taken mostly by artists who were not pre-registered and came "on spec". Some people seem not to receive my Art Show roundmails with the current setup details, so we will change the notification system next year, hopefully reaching everybody with the newest information.)
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: KeksTheFurry on 01.09.2017, 18:07:25
Let's start with the good stuff:

+ REALLY awesome "Paws on Fire" event with some huge benefits:
  > Constant good lightning, more focus on the dancers performance and not everything covered in smoke or dark light. I love it.
  > Really good concept with the "quick" version of jury feedback
  > Totally love the battle aspect of this event
  > No queue or waiting time
+ The second dance aka "Rave party"
  > I don't liked the music in the first moment but I loved how nerdy the whole concept was. So I fell in love with it. Sadly it was only at one day!
  > Good lighting (people gave their best to make it film-able for me. Huge thanks to them! It saved the con video in the end.
  > I just can't wait to see such a dance again, maybe even with other "special interest" music genres such as Nightcore or DnB
+ All the decoration
  > Such an improvement everywhere when it comes to huge banners, decoration elements and comfortable areas!
  > The whole hotel felt way more comfortable and the con-related areas more professional
+ Probably a lot more but I spend most of the time with video editing

o Enter the Arena had a strange Playtime-to-Queuetime ratio. Getting more dancers would be cool

o I still hope that the "3 blocks only" rule is either a joke, or there is a story behind it that I just haven't discovered yet. Did anyone got hurt by that? o.O

- The event plan was a little bit hard to understand for me and my friends.
  >Fursuit parade during the Dealers-Den opening?
  >Fursuit gameshow during Paws on Fire?
  >Fursuit group foto while Enter the Arena is still going on?
  >Probably more but I forgot.

- THE MAIN STAGE VOLUME
  > I HAD A TINITUS SEVERAL TIMES JUST FROM ATTENDING NORMAL EVENTS, NOT DANCES. YOU DON'T EXPECT TO BRING EAR PROTECTION THERE. AUDIO WAS CLIPPING SO HARD.
  > I WRITE THIS IN CAPS SO THAT YOU GET AN IDEA HOW IT FELT TO SIT THERE WHILE NO ONE IT PUTTING THE VOLUME LEVER DOWN
  > No but seriously, so many complains about it and nobody was able to fix it. It is a bit hard to understand how this was not possible to change.

-  It is forbidden to cover your real name on your badge with removeable duct-tape (that you can remove at any time when someone needs to "control" your badge!).
   Please, how does my real name help someone at an entrance to check if my badge is valid? Do they need to learn all the names of the attendees?
   There was a guy who looked at my name for like half a minute after I had to remove my tape from it. Seriously, why? If someone wants to report me,
   he can just take my reg number or my nickname!
   PLEASE find a solution so that people don't have to run around at cons, showing everyone their real name, if they don't want to.

- The Main Stage Lighting
  > I seriously loved the main stage each year, starting from EF18. This year, I came with more than double the light intense camera setup to film there than on previous years.
     This being said, I was deeply shocked to see that filming the dances was not possible at all. Not even at ISO12800 (I used ISO640 all the years before).
  > Enter the Arena had *a bit* too much smoke to see the dancers anymore at some point
  > I see that this years light-setup was extremely complicated installed and it looked good at the first point. It just wasn't good on the second view (in my opinion).
     Actually, I've talked with some of the light-controllers. There was barely anything he was able to do to make the stage brighter, despite mixing in normal "daylight" which
     is obviously not a good solution. So most of the time, everyone in the hall was just completely dark.
     They tried hard to improve it somehow and there was a small dance-stage in the end with some normal "daylight" that allowed to get at least some shots, but compared to the awesome light
     setup all the years before it was just not as good as it could've been and I had to film with very high ISO anyway. Also it wasn't colorful and interesting.
     So I went to the smaller neon dance and filmed there all the time - end of story.
    --> There is a "lite" solution to this, if you aim to make everyone happy (including the film-people) while you think that most people want to dance in the dark so that no one can see them:
       --> Just make a bright, filmable dance stage which is large enaugh for several people to dance on it
       --> Please don't block it with a DJ-House that may looks cool, but blocks the stage and interaction for fursuiters with the DJ
       --> Talk with someone who knows what colors and lighting looks good on a camera, e.g. me
          --> You will end up with a stage that is as cool as - or cooler than - on EF22
   --> Another good solution was to have those light-trees in the dance corners such as at EF21, so that you can simply film around them.
   --> Probably the best is to have less-focused light beams on the main stage at the dances like the years before. It is also less annoying to get them in the face then ;)
         However, it was totally cool to have those "lasers" at the rave dance as everything was smaller there and they only added light, but it wasn't the only light source.

- Dance Music overall
  > I write this mostly for my friends who came with me to eurofurence. Music choice surely isn't something that can please anyone, but we agreed on this point.
     Also I personally don't listen to the music which got played all the years before on dances, but it was "EF music" and it was good for me.
  > This year, it was hard to hear a single song that people know and can interact to. It was absolutely strange for us. All the years before, it was "the same" well-known music over and over
     again and it honestly was good because people knew the songs, they had a good time, it surely was mainstream stuff but it was easy to like it. You can't sing to a song if you don't know it.
     This year, it felt like someone said "Let's play only songs that we never played before". This is probably not true, but so was our feeling about it.
--> If all the DJs suddenly had an idea to improve the music choice by playing less-mainstream-stuff or whatever: We didn't enjoyed it.


It's really hard for me to give feedback this year, as I only attended some events and mostly of them only to film there. Which is why my feedback is - and should be - understood out of the view of someone who goes to the dance to film there, not to dance, which is definitely not the main intention behind a dance! I understand this, but I still want to give feedback. You don't need to listen to me to actually change something, but I wanted to write it down (as I really would love to see improvement at those points to make Eurofurence better)
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: James The Dog on 01.09.2017, 22:55:18
But from other Conventions I also know of Dealer's Dens that are in the basement, no natural light either, but only 6-8 hours opened, maybe that's an option?

Yes, I've been ton Confuzzled, FWA and MFF and all 3 of them have the dealer's den in rooms with no windows- MFF and FWA having them in the basement too. While admittedly I don't know how it is for the dealers, at least there's more space.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Reshi on 02.09.2017, 05:04:47
[...]
o Enter the Arena had a strange Playtime-to-Queuetime ratio. Getting more dancers would be cool
[...]

This was something I thought too, since last year there were 18-20 dancers or so (I was competing, but didn't apply this year). Made me think did they just want less dancers this year since there was the charity dance auction too, or was it just that there weren't as many people applying. /shrug
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: KeksTheFurry on 02.09.2017, 07:05:50
[...] since there was the charity dance auction too, or was it just that there weren't as many people applying. /shrug


Talking about the dance auction... it was totally cringe to see those low offers and also that one suiter almost got no offer at all.
I regret that I missed the fursuit group photo for that. Also I guess if I want to dance with a fursuiter, I can just do this for free at any regular dance.

However, I would pay for personal cuddle time :P So maybe that is an idea ^^
Or anything else more personal that has nothing to do with dancing. Imagine going with a fursuiter to a restaurant :D
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Alpha_Ki on 02.09.2017, 07:27:02
- crowded Dealer's Den. There really was barely any space to move, especially for the tables in the middle to the left, that were placed like a "U" shape. Not sure if there is a way to change that, since that room, as I heard, was the only one with windows and daylight. But from other Conventions I also know of Dealer's Dens that are in the basement, no natural light either, but only 6-8 hours opened, maybe that's an option?

- Artist Alley: There was an email, that people who applied for the Dealer's Den and didn't get in would be reserved a space in the Artist Alley, was that a thing? I was lucky that I was up early enough both days to get a spot, but I really liked the idea. Maybe a sign-up in the evening? Not sure how big the demand for tables even was.
I know that MFF has 3 days of Artist Alley and it is a lottery to get a spot, and if you didn't get a spot on either of the first two days, you are guaranteed one on the last day, I really like this idea. Also they have a screen showing all the artist names that currently sit in the Artist Alley, that was pretty helpful :)

also:
- make Artist Alley 3 days long, more time for more folks to sit there :)


Hello Shex,
We do have an expanding solution, we can make when the second hotel tower is ready. Then we have enough attendees to rent the second ECC. Or we double the EF price starting next year. Or I ask if we get the basement under the ECC one. The entrance would be through the Dealers' Den - down the staircase through that metal savety door in the corner EZ Wolf had his table. There is the hotel storage and since we use almost all their tables we might have an empty room there. But that would be just 2,5 meters high and I am not sure how large that area truly is.
BELIVE ME when I say we are rolling options around year after year after year. I don't have a Marry Poppins' Bag with space as much as I want. Of course I could reduce the amount of tables at the Dealers' Den to get it less crowded but that also means less artists and that also means a longer waiting list. If you don't like it crowded - go there on Friday or Saturday - these days are usually very good if you want to have a good look on everything.

As for the Artist Alley - if the video makers, photo shooters and the fursuit game show preliminaries doesn't need the hallway for cool pictures, set ups etc. then we can have the area for three days. But artists aren't the only attendees at EF and the rest is not there for only buying nice things. But we all go there to have fun. And for quite a lot of people it is fun to wear a fursuit getting great pictures done. I saw the Rotunde used on Thursday for private photo and dance video shoots.

Artist Alley set up ... hell ... you were lucky that Gekko was the one being there for you ... I would have eaten anyone alive. I was so annoyed that the hotel doesn't read my instructions when it comes to setup. They do that when ever they have time for that. In my setup plan there is mentioned that setting up the tables should happen shortly before 11 am so that we can control and hold back some tables for the people on the the waiting list. That was and is the plan.
We are only humans, we need sleep and a proper breakfast, that is why we don't sit there from six in the morning biting away people till 11 to make sure it works out.
And the seating plan / screen for the Alley - we had an idea to connect the tables with the Smartphone app so artists can ping themselves in. BUT it didn't work out as we wanted it to work so we "just" had a large seating plan banner with the option writing your name onto it - as said on the hand out... no one used it. Having a lottery and "booked" tables would also mean that there is no chance for an artists popping up a point of sales if he or she registered a week before the con. Or if he or she looses in the lottery... the open system gives a fair chance. And I have seen enough empty tables. Plus I have two people selling at the Dealers' Den this year telling me that sales in the Alley either last year or after the Den closes were better than at the Den itself. Just for the statistics.

We are a fan based convention on a very professional level, we are no fair. Please keep that always in mind.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Suicune on 02.09.2017, 07:53:18
- THE MAIN STAGE VOLUME
  > I HAD A TINITUS SEVERAL TIMES JUST FROM ATTENDING NORMAL EVENTS, NOT DANCES. YOU DON'T EXPECT TO BRING EAR PROTECTION THERE. AUDIO WAS CLIPPING SO HARD.
  > I WRITE THIS IN CAPS SO THAT YOU GET AN IDEA HOW IT FELT TO SIT THERE WHILE NO ONE IT PUTTING THE VOLUME LEVER DOWN
  > No but seriously, so many complains about it and nobody was able to fix it. It is a bit hard to understand how this was not possible to change.

-  It is forbidden to cover your real name on your badge with removeable duct-tape (that you can remove at any time when someone needs to "control" your badge!).
   Please, how does my real name help someone at an entrance to check if my badge is valid? Do they need to learn all the names of the attendees? There was a guy who looked at my name for
   like half a minute after I had to remove my tape from it. Seriously, why? If someone wants to report me,
   he can just take my reg number or my nickname! Long story short: I stopped wearing my con badge and replaced it with a self-printed multipass. Suddenly, this was a solution
   that finally got me through all the checkpoints. Proof, that the multipass works everywhere! :D
   But seriously: PLEASE find a solution so that people don't have to run around at cons, showing everyone their real name, if they don't want to.
   Keeping the badge hidden as a result is a bit sad because people can't see your nickname then.

Then don't sit in the front rows? oO
Only event that killed my ears a litte was when I sat right in front on the speaker during the PPS and a female voice was screaming or shouting. No propblem with the other events I attended and where I sat in the first 3 rows.

And good question. What's the point of having my name on it except of being identifyable on the spot? You got number and checksum. oO
Not a fan of showing my name either. ^^;
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: KeksTheFurry on 02.09.2017, 09:33:06
Then don't sit in the front rows? oO

I was in the pretty much in the middle of the main stage, if not more in the back. It matters more if you sit on the side where the speakers are pointing at you.
But honestly, the existence of a volume issue is nothing we need to discuss. Chats are full of it, staff knew it was there, it just didn't got fixed live for whatever reason.
During PPS for example, it was hard to read anything else in the EF SFW chat than people complaining about the audio volume destroying their ears.
Making any row (which is "too close" to the speakers in your opinion) deaf isn't an option either, not at an event where you don't espect to bring ear protection, e.g. the PPS.

BTW: Clipping audio is also nothing that has to do with volume, it means that an audio feed has a signal which is too high to process by everything that comes after that.

Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Futeko on 02.09.2017, 16:16:02
-  It is forbidden to cover your real name on your badge with removeable duct-tape (that you can remove at any time when someone needs to "control" your badge!).
   Please, how does my real name help someone at an entrance to check if my badge is valid? Do they need to learn all the names of the attendees? There was a guy who looked at my name for
   like half a minute after I had to remove my tape from it. Seriously, why? If someone wants to report me,
   he can just take my reg number or my nickname! Long story short: I stopped wearing my con badge and replaced it with a self-printed multipass. Suddenly, this was a solution
   that finally got me through all the checkpoints. Proof, that the multipass works everywhere! :D
   But seriously: PLEASE find a solution so that people don't have to run around at cons, showing everyone their real name, if they don't want to.
   Keeping the badge hidden as a result is a bit sad because people can't see your nickname then.

If you have any doubts with regards to a rule (whether "badge must always be fully visible" one or any other), please don't hesitate to go to SecOps and discuss your concerns. Keeping that frustration bottled up can't do anything good for your fun on-site, when security could actually clarify your concerns and give meaning to a rule you might find unfair.
People at SecOps are not there to debate rules and change them for you, but they'll certainly be more than happy to explain the meaning of them to you and try to find a solution that would put your concerns at rest.

I would however advise against replacing your badge with any custom solution. If security had caught you with a self-made badge and without your real convention badge, you could have gotten into a lot of trouble - which would have been quite sad seeing the situation could have been discussed and clarified beforehand.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: KeksTheFurry on 02.09.2017, 16:38:41
I would however advise against replacing your badge with any custom solution. If security had caught you with a self-made badge and without your real convention badge, you could have gotten into a lot of trouble
I wasn't aware this could've been missunderstood if someone doesn't know what multipass means. It's a Meme.
I've put my con badge in my jeans to only show it when consec wanted me to and had a multipass as a joke around my neck (which means one that looks like https://cdn.instructables.com/FTJ/CYOV/IEB8CSW1/FTJCYOVIEB8CSW1.MEDIUM.jpg ), so obviously nowhere near a con badge.
Also, I still had my Video Team badge around my neck. This is probably the reason why no one asked for my badge anymore.

BTT: If you know the reason why this "show your real name" rule exists, would you please be so kind to explain it here?
I have a friend who did the same in Fursuit and the feedback he received for that wasn't quite calm and relaxed like mine.
So we both would like to know the reason why this can't be allowed, and maybe also more people here.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Sheena-Tiger on 02.09.2017, 21:30:54
I would however advise against replacing your badge with any custom solution. If security had caught you with a self-made badge and without your real convention badge, you could have gotten into a lot of trouble
I wasn't aware this could've been missunderstood if someone doesn't know what multipass means. It's a Meme.
I've put my con badge in my jeans to only show it when consec wanted me to and had a multipass as a joke around my neck (which means one that looks like https://cdn.instructables.com/FTJ/CYOV/IEB8CSW1/FTJCYOVIEB8CSW1.MEDIUM.jpg ), so obviously nowhere near a con badge.
Also, I still had my Video Team badge around my neck. This is probably the reason why no one asked for my badge anymore.

BTT: If you know the reason why this "show your real name" rule exists (while not wearing your badge visible seems to be ok), would you please be so kind to explain it here?
I have a friend who did the same in Fursuit and the feedback he received for that wasn't quite calm and relaxed like mine.
So we both would like to know the reason why this can't be allowed, and maybe also more people here.

I only have the short answer: You signed the Rules of Conduct (https://www.eurofurence.org/EF23/policies/roc) which include the following:
Quote from: Eurofurence
Registration and Badges

    You must be at least 18 years old on the first day of the convention.
    Eurofurence functions are open only to registered attendees.
    Attendees are identified by their personal membership badge.
    A badge is valid only for the person to whom it was issued and may not be shared.
    Badges must be presented and/or surrendered to any Staff member requesting it.
    Changing or obscuring information on your badge is not allowed.

As well known, any rule in there is there for a reason.
Details of the reasons likely can be given by more experienced people that might have encountered the reasons in person.
Lucky (or unlucky, depending on personal opinion) I am far to new for that.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: KeksTheFurry on 03.09.2017, 17:13:10
I only have the short answer: You signed the Rules of Conduct (https://www.eurofurence.org/EF23/policies/roc) which include the following:
Quote from: Eurofurence
Registration and Badges
    You must be at least 18 years old on the first day of the convention.
    Eurofurence functions are open only to registered attendees.
    Attendees are identified by their personal membership badge.
    A badge is valid only for the person to whom it was issued and may not be shared.
    Badges must be presented and/or surrendered to any Staff member requesting it.
    Changing or obscuring information on your badge is not allowed.
As well known, any rule in there is there for a reason.
Details of the reasons likely can be given by more experienced people that might have encountered the reasons in person.
Lucky (or unlucky, depending on personal opinion) I am far to new for that.

̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶l̶̶e̶̶a̶̶s̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶e̶̶r̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶n̶̶o̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶u̶̶l̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶o̶̶r̶̶c̶̶i̶̶n̶̶g̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶o̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶e̶̶a̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶a̶̶d̶̶g̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶v̶̶i̶̶s̶̶i̶̶b̶̶l̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶l̶̶l̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶i̶̶m̶̶e̶̶.̶̶ ̶  (Edit: See next post)

Still, it is a mystery why I can't cover parts of my badge temporary
if I'm able to remove the cover at request, if not wearing your badge visible seems to be ok.
It is reasonable that identification on request is necessary in some cases,
but this is still given with any temporary cover that can be removed in seconds.

I hope there will be a solution next EF for that, also if it's just that they allow temporary covers (e.g. card holders with backplate + Name printed on just one badge side).
I don't even know any other event where full names are printed on badges to be honest.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Futeko on 03.09.2017, 18:46:28
Quote
At least there is no rule forcing you to wear your badge visible at all time.
Just to clarify this bit so that the wrong information is not spread: actually, you always have to wear your badge, especially in the convention-specific areas.
This is clearly mentioned in the Conbook as the first item of "Long Story Short" following the RoC (page 10).

You can imagine how much of a nightmare it would be for everyone if all the attendees kept their badge in their pocket, as security would have to stop everyone 24/7 to check that they are actually allowed to be on the premises. Having your badge openly visible makes it possible to check this in an instant with a quick glance - which is obviously more convenient for both attendees and security :)
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Honey on 04.09.2017, 00:44:15
I had a nice con experience overall and I had a very good experience in the dealers den even though it was very hot some of the time. Thank you everyone for your hard work!

Most of my "points" has already been answered so I won't get into that. The only thing I feel the need to mention is the moving of the smokers area from the main enterance to the enterance right at wing 3. I was in wing 3 and because of the heat the doors was always open. The smell of smoke blew right in and was even sometimes noticeable on the lower floors on wing 3. Passing through the area to get to the elevator and the seating area right I front where the big sand wall was, was greatly affected by the smoke.

Now I understand we all have to be here, smokers and non smokers alike but I noticed that the doors near wing 1 was never open! Why not move the smokers in that direction instead? Or further down the ramp so at least it's not right outside the doors where the smoke flows in and fills the room :)
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Dhary Montecore on 04.09.2017, 11:19:46
The only thing I feel the need to mention is the moving of the smokers area from the main enterance to the enterance right at wing 3. I was in wing 3 and because of the heat the doors was always open. The smell of smoke blew right in and was even sometimes noticeable on the lower floors on wing 3. Passing through the area to get to the elevator and the seating area right I front where the big sand wall was, was greatly affected by the smoke.

Now I understand we all have to be here, smokers and non smokers alike but I noticed that the doors near wing 1 was never open! Why not move the smokers in that direction instead? Or further down the ramp so at least it's not right outside the doors where the smoke flows in and fills the room :)

Hi!

I'm glad you enjoyed the convention! Regarding the move of the smokers area: Originally this was a rather spontaneous decision I had to make. I had hoped that the doors to the wing 3 side entrance would not be opened wide so often. My mistake. I decided against the wing 1 side doors because of the often rushed car traffic up the ramp. For next year we will prepare a more visible smokers area in a better location - maybe wing 1 side-entrance.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Shex on 04.09.2017, 20:45:45
...


Hello Shex,
We do have an expanding solution, we can make when the second hotel tower is ready. Then we have enough attendees to rent the second ECC. Or we double the EF price starting next year. Or I ask if we get the basement under the ECC one. The entrance would be through the Dealers' Den - down the staircase through that metal savety door in the corner EZ Wolf had his table. There is the hotel storage and since we use almost all their tables we might have an empty room there. But that would be just 2,5 meters high and I am not sure how large that area truly is.
BELIVE ME when I say we are rolling options around year after year after year. I don't have a Marry Poppins' Bag with space as much as I want. Of course I could reduce the amount of tables at the Dealers' Den to get it less crowded but that also means less artists and that also means a longer waiting list. If you don't like it crowded - go there on Friday or Saturday - these days are usually very good if you want to have a good look on everything.

As for the Artist Alley - if the video makers, photo shooters and the fursuit game show preliminaries doesn't need the hallway for cool pictures, set ups etc. then we can have the area for three days. But artists aren't the only attendees at EF and the rest is not there for only buying nice things. But we all go there to have fun. And for quite a lot of people it is fun to wear a fursuit getting great pictures done. I saw the Rotunde used on Thursday for private photo and dance video shoots.

Artist Alley set up ... hell ... you were lucky that Gekko was the one being there for you ... I would have eaten anyone alive. I was so annoyed that the hotel doesn't read my instructions when it comes to setup. They do that when ever they have time for that. In my setup plan there is mentioned that setting up the tables should happen shortly before 11 am so that we can control and hold back some tables for the people on the the waiting list. That was and is the plan.
We are only humans, we need sleep and a proper breakfast, that is why we don't sit there from six in the morning biting away people till 11 to make sure it works out.
And the seating plan / screen for the Alley - we had an idea to connect the tables with the Smartphone app so artists can ping themselves in. BUT it didn't work out as we wanted it to work so we "just" had a large seating plan banner with the option writing your name onto it - as said on the hand out... no one used it. Having a lottery and "booked" tables would also mean that there is no chance for an artists popping up a point of sales if he or she registered a week before the con. Or if he or she looses in the lottery... the open system gives a fair chance. And I have seen enough empty tables. Plus I have two people selling at the Dealers' Den this year telling me that sales in the Alley either last year or after the Den closes were better than at the Den itself. Just for the statistics.

We are a fan based convention on a very professional level, we are no fair. Please keep that always in mind.



Thank you for explaining everything! :)
I really wasn't meant as bad criticism, if it appeared as that, I just wanted to share my thoughts.
I believe many many people spend a lot of time and effort for everything and I'm glad and thankful the Convention went as smooth as it did :3

Also, I totally didn't see that Artist Alley banner, but that's a good option, too! :>
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: ANTIcarrot on 07.09.2017, 20:38:59
There are dates for EF24 up on the website, but I don't recall a public announcement that they were available. Could Eurofurence announce the dates with a little more fan-fare in the future?

Over the past month some flight prices into Berlin for August 2018 have gone up by a hundred euros. For anyone flying in it really is helpful to be able to know the dates as early as possible.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Cheetah on 08.09.2017, 10:21:06
o I still hope that the "3 blocks only" rule is either a joke, or there is a story behind it that I just haven't discovered yet. Did anyone got hurt by that? o.O

I think it was "4 blocks". That was a safety measure to make sure people don't get too close to the sprinklers when handling the blocks, and to prevent furries to climb too high on top of their creations.

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- The event plan was a little bit hard to understand for me and my friends.
  >Fursuit parade during the Dealers-Den opening?
  >Fursuit gameshow during Paws on Fire?
  >Fursuit group foto while Enter the Arena is still going on?
  >Probably more but I forgot.

A lot of events were timed because that was the only way to make them fit in the very tight corset of available space, time, and resources. We were aware of the overlaps, and decided they were the lesser of two possible evils. Sometimes it's not possible to schedule them in any other way.

(Especially the vast amount of fursuiting events we have is quite a challenge. Not having two of them ever overlap is like trying to square a circle.)

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- THE MAIN STAGE VOLUME
  > I HAD A TINITUS SEVERAL TIMES JUST FROM ATTENDING NORMAL EVENTS, NOT DANCES. YOU DON'T EXPECT TO BRING EAR PROTECTION THERE. AUDIO WAS CLIPPING SO HARD.
  > I WRITE THIS IN CAPS SO THAT YOU GET AN IDEA HOW IT FELT TO SIT THERE WHILE NO ONE IT PUTTING THE VOLUME LEVER DOWN
  > No but seriously, so many complains about it and nobody was able to fix it. It is a bit hard to understand how this was not possible to change.

The sound system seems to have a few hot spots that are hard to judge when you set up the sound from the FOH all the way in the back. The sound was often perfectly okay when hearing it form the sound desk, and we obviously tended to underestimated the volume in the front.

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-  It is forbidden to cover your real name on your badge with removeable duct-tape

Yes, that has been a policy for more than 10 years. We know that there are cons that do not require you to show your real name. We decided for ourselves that it not only makes it a lot easier for paramedics and hotel security to do their work, but we also believe that it provides a psychological incentive to show your best behaviour in public, since you can't hide behind a random nickname. Especially in times where it's common to register under one-time-nicknames.

That may not apply to you personally, but we're talking about a mass of almost 3000 furries of varyied mental maturity and social aptness.

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   PLEASE find a solution so that people don't have to run around at cons, showing everyone their real name, if they don't want to.

Sometimes you get what you want, sometimes you don't :) It's something you have to be aware of when attending EF, and the vast majority of attendees didn't have a problem with it for the last 10+ years, so that policy is here to stay.

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     This being said, I was deeply shocked to see that filming the dances was not possible at all. Not even at ISO12800 (I used ISO640 all the years before).

The dances are not lit to be filmed. That doesn't mean we don't want anybody to film them, but that overall brightness is not something we take into account when designing the dance lights. Those are chosen by their effectiveness as effect lighting, and (more importantly) the budget. We went a little bit overboard with our budget last year and we had to scale down the dance lighting this year, to save money. Sorry it didn't work out for you. It was not an oversight.  Some years will have more lights, some will have less.

Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: nobs on 09.09.2017, 06:52:13
"The dances are not lit to be filmed."

statement of the year :)

Some of the photographers really should note that this is not all about them. They hop around their favorite suiter like as the dance is their personal photo shooting event.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Timmy Fox on 12.09.2017, 01:48:25
On the subject of the dance lighting .. I'm not sure if it was the flashing or the dimness overall but I actually found, as a fursuiter, it was actually very hard to see very much at all during at least the main stage dances on the last two days (the big blue dance as well as the one the night before; I only attended these in fursuit).

Due to how the vision works through the eyes in my fursuit, it's very hard to see clearly in dim light and I actually had to rely on the bright flashes to be able to navigate the room and see most of my surroundings. I understand the point is to keep the lighting down but brightening the dimmest points just slightly (or at least having fewer/shorter 'pitch black' moments would probably help tremendously here I think).
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Cheetah on 12.09.2017, 10:31:16
Hey Timmy, for next year, can I recommend attending the "fursuit friendly" dance. We intentionally leave some permanent lights on and use a little less fog during that one.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Timmy Fox on 12.09.2017, 10:57:11
Hey Timmy, for next year, can I recommend attending the "fursuit friendly" dance. We intentionally leave some permanent lights on and use a little less fog during that one.
Ah yeah, I'm sure that would be better indeed!

Also, just to be clear; I don't mean to suggest the lighting should be dramatically different. Just that I agree with previous comments that it overall was a little darker than it could've been - Obviously fursuiting in such lighting conditions won't be optimal no matter how you do it but I guess it's mainly the difference between "hard to see what's around you" and "near impossible", if that makes sense? :)
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Drachetto on 13.09.2017, 12:21:26
First: thanks very much to all the EF staff and volunteers, who provided such great event once more.

What I liked the most:
+The new main halls of the hotel: there is more space avaiable now and no queues to the door at the bar which divides the two big rooms;
+The hotel itself: the A/C hadn't working properly in my room, but after I pointed it at the reception, the problem was solved quickly. The hotel also kindly lent me a vacuum cleaner (for my fursuit's vacuum bag);
+The fursuit helpers and the security: they were always kind and I saw them always around if somebody would have needed.

What may be improved next year:
-The warm temperature in the main halls of the hotel: often it was impossible to stay there while in fursuit due of the high temperature and humidity, please the let's the windows in the glass roof opened during all the convention days;
-The security check at the Fursuit Lounge and the Rotunda: Me and my friends never met somebody to check our badges;
-The Fursuit Group Photo: It's very exausting and frustrating waiting standing and still for 30-40 minutes until the pictures are taken. That happens to wait fursuits who join with a small or big delay the event. I think that EF should take the picture at the time which was scheduled and doesn't wait for stragglers, making the event even less stressing and probably getting back a part of the fursuits who don't attend the Group Photo anymore.
And please, don't wait for the desperate request of the fursuits to move some big fans to the room of the photo;
-The Opening and Closing Cerimonies: a bit meh comparated to the last editions.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: amee2k on 15.09.2017, 11:52:02
Much has been said, so here is pretty much what I agree and disagree with. This is like the first time I'm doing the feedback thing so I hope it isn't too long or repetitive. ;)

the app is nice, though somehow I could not watch the maps in landscape mode, for some reason. am I the only one who had that issue?

Nope - had the issue on several (all android!) devices every year so far that i can remember. A landscape image on a portrait screen is kinda like vertical video on youtube...

Notifications being slow can easily be helped by using the Telegram announcement channel which has basically the same content as the App notifications but is more reliable.

I also used a lot less mobile data compared to the years before despite little change in phone usage that I'm aware of, so I think wifi coverage was a thumbs-up.

Speaking of announcements... Am I the only one who missed any and all announcements where the parade route was going to be? None of my "good spots" from the last years seemed to work well which left me constantly hunting for a useful spot during a comparatively short event.

Switching between events and the map in the mobile app always resets the view to Tuesday morning, so you constantly have to go scrolling around for what is happening right now. The "funnel" icon in the event view was mildly misleading, in my opinion. I was hoping to be able to *filter out* events by type or interest. E.g. I'm not a fursuiter, so I don't care about fursuiter-only events. I'm also not a dealer, so I don't care about artist-only or DD/artshow/... ancillary events. But since these facilities are open throughout most of the day their event entries are near the top of the list and I have to scroll through them every time the event view opens - even though I will almost never find them relevant. (Same kinda goes for done events... if they're more than an hour or two in the past, the entries are not very interesting anymore.)

Speaking of the DD... Yeah, the U shape and the small blind alleys behind the stairs (around Starburrow's table) were annoying with this many people. I didn't go through there at all and instead spent the extra cash at the tables on the window side of the room.

I know the con's not even over yet, but I have to complain about those damn portable bluetooth speakers people are carrying around with them. I'm quite sick of them, they're so loud, you can't hear yourself think or have a conversation within about 10 meters of someone with them.

This. Have you ever heard a really bad DJ practice his mixing? Thats what hearing three completely unrelated songs at the same time sounds like...

The DJs were actually great this year. But I don't get the comments earlier about the stage having great sound either. Room and volume distribution issues aside, I thought the concert (despite being a great show in general) was somewhat less enjoyable than it could have been. It ranged from really badly boomy and distorted basslines ("This Suit") to very faint and drowned-out vocals ("Stay as you are") and being generally very quiet in some places ("Lighthouse" / beginning of "Starry Destination" ... yes, these are slower songs, but *that* quiet?). Did the bass drum even have a mic at all...? This situation was much better at other events though, with no distortion or boomyness in the music and clear voices. You guys have great gear back there, so use it!

Speaking of other events... The Game Show was fun and awesome - no prop failures during the games, and the video and scoreboard was working great! The pawpet show also turned out quite awesome! (Even though I thought the ending of the story was a bit rushed to make time for naughty scenes in the middle...) <3

I didn't watch as much EF Prime this time as in the previous years (mainly because of the lack of public TVs). But would it help with the rotations at the end if people brought down their material during the con to tack on the end for as long as you can keep the channel going? Also, are recordings of the current year's events/panels/presentations an option?

The breakfast itself was delicious, but I rarely eat the sausages in question so I can't comment on that. The rest of it was still great regardless of the sausage situation. I agree that the tables are really cramped for four people if everyone is eating. The triangular decoration/advertisement thingy doesn't help with that. Being able to get some fries for a midnight snack was a very welcome addition though.

However, I would pay for personal cuddle time :P So maybe that is an idea ^^
Or anything else more personal that has nothing to do with dancing. Imagine going with a fursuiter to a restaurant :D
My first thought when the auction was announced was like "... Can I have a pole dance please? I would like to be the pole..."
<3
(p.s.) If the scope of the fursuiter auction is expanded beyond dance performances, it is probably a good idea to unambiguously differentiate which fursuiters are available for which kinds of activities, to avoid ... disappointed expectations. If you get my drift. Or other ideas could be for example exclusive photo/video sessions (both in front and behind the camera) with particularly good looking (or well known) suiters.

And last but not least... Besides getting into random badge checks twice for the first time ever (which I didn't mind - the security guys were quite friendly about it despite my dumb stare surprised look), i didn't get the feeling that the amount of security at large was much different. That said, I did notice quite more stories about ... incidents, that were circulated compared to the previous years. So it probably ended up being less security *subjectively*, but possibly not in a way that more *objective* presence could help with. ;)

There probably is a reason why it isn't done that way, because it has been mentioned every year before... staircases not being a one-way route to ground floor could help a lot to take load off the elevators. Even well after midnight, you had to routinely wait 15+ minutes just to go one or two floors to another room. This was particuarly pronounced near the ends of the elevator where it shows twice in quick succession - then no more for some 30+ minutes. Also, despite an announcement to avoid using the hotel's service elevators, there was a LOT of hotel personel every day using the main elevators to move cleaning supplies...

In the end, I had a blast and a great con experience again - so thanks a lot to everyone, and I hope to see you all again next year! <3

Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Atkelar on 15.09.2017, 18:54:30
-The Fursuit Group Photo: It's very exausting and frustrating waiting standing and still for 30-40 minutes until the pictures are taken. That happens to wait fursuits who join with a small or big delay the event. I think that EF should take the picture at the time which was scheduled and doesn't wait for stragglers, making the event even less stressing and probably getting back a part of the fursuits who don't attend the Group Photo anymore.
And please, don't wait for the desperate request of the fursuits to move some big fans to the room of the photo;

There seemst to be some misunderstandings here, so please allow me to clarify:

With a group picture of that size, it takes quite some time to line up everybody even with the lines on the floor. We did try to announce a "click time" in the past, but that only lead to people arriving at that time, thinking it would be enough. Well, it isn't by far.

This is why we announced the picture as an affair that would take half an hour over all, with the "click" somewhere in the bottom half of that period. We ask people to be there as early as possible so everything can be smooth and on time. Even the announcement during the opening ceremony was to that regard.

We also ordered the blowers from the fursuit department before the con, they were not brought out upon request by desperate suiters - they may or may not have been a bit late, I cannot tell that, but they were ordered and planned for, just like the fact that the area was considered a headless zone and thus off limits to cameras.

If we were to do it with a fixed "click time", we would have to add a queue up front and hurry people into position then which would be way worse that the way it was planned and executed.

The only thing we all were a bit unhappy with is the wedged timing between the two other events, with little to no buffer - but that was still the best option overall I'm afraid.

Next year will most likely have do be a different location/time anyhow, so it is too early to tell specifics now but we definitely won't announce the event with a "click time" ever again as that was positively the worst way of doing it.
Title: Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
Post by: Twillight on 06.12.2017, 20:51:51
Where are the official Groupfotos from the EF 23?   Or are they not finishd?