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Eurofurence 25 "Fractures in Time" - Estrel Hotel Berlin, August 14-18, 2019Follow eurofurence on Twitter

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Author Topic: EF18 Feedback  (Read 50443 times)

silverfoxwolf

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #105 on: 08.09.2012, 00:57:02 »

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What you're not taking into account is the room capacity. We need to thin the crowd out by running more events in parallel, otherwise rooms will overcrowd more than they already do.
Funny thing is that later in your posting you apply exactly the opposite reasoning to the restaurants:
Actually the reasoning behind the point is to spread events out over a wider space of time. The point with restaurants is the same, narrow bands of time.

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Where else would you have put it, with the entire afternoon being taken by the fursuit parade and concert setup going on at the same time?
I would have swapped the concert and fursuit games, since concerts generally run later then other events at shows in general.

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Does it occur to you that sometimes shit juts happens? In this case, dance contest overran 35 minutes because of technical failures, and then during concert rehearsals, a member of the camera crew slipped and fell off his platform, needing attention by our paramedics. I hope you do not mind that we put the well-being of our volunteers above our scheduling.
I am well aware of unexpected events causing a problem, I was not raising reasons behind it, just highlighting that a delay happened that was longer then desirable by anyone and no I was not aware of an accident taking place.

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I wouldn't mind. Find my volunteers who want to run stuff competing with the pawpetshow, and I'll give them timeslots. In the last 10 years, there weren't many. Maybe YOU want to run an event?
For once I was not working at a convention, next year I would indeed be interested in running something.

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Before finding him though I naturally went to conops to tell them it was locked, only to find conops left unstaffed. With the amount of staff EF has I found this very surprising.

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Con ops is still looking for volunteers to man their office. Would you be up for it? All it takes is missing 100% of the convention, not getting any sleep, working hard all day, and putting up with criticisms like this. But as I can see you are very motivated to improve the situation, I am looking forward to receiving your application for next year's convention!
I have worked within conops at other events, run medical cover by remote radio control and spent a lot of time in other roles at conventions and events so I am well aware of the work involved. I don't see how noting an absense of staff is a critisism, it is an observation of something that happened. 
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SouthPaw

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #106 on: 08.09.2012, 01:08:56 »

maybe just a comment about this:
the storyteller part was awfully long and very very difficult to understand.
I know it is not easy to clearly speak from inside a fursuite head, but wouldnt there be some better way to hear the commentator voice?  like a compact mic inside the fursuite head?

The host did have a headset mike initially, as in previous years, but it fell off/out early in the show so he had to resort to a handheld mike for most of the event.
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BigBlueFox

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #107 on: 08.09.2012, 01:10:24 »

I would have swapped the concert and fursuit games, since concerts generally run later then other events at shows in general.

Because we tried not to have two fursuit related events clashing. That's all there is to it. The Fursuit Parade would've started together with the Fursuit Games.

And there was no way of pushing it a bit further back, because we needed the main stage for the final rehearsals of the concert.


--------------


We appreciate your comments and pointers, really. I think the reason why some people are responding a little bit allergic is this: We are a big con that has been going on for 18 years. Most staffers and events have grown from more than 10 years of experience. Every decision, every plan, every event is well-considered and talked through with staffers, organisers, panelists.

We are, at the same time, facing challenges and limits, be it with staff, facilities, equipment, everything comes to an end at some point and we need to find the right way inbetween many options to please as many people as possible. One example is the video team, we put in two new team members this year and had more than ever, we had more cameras than ever before, and still missed two events because we suddenly found a situation in which we were understaffed.

For example, the fact that two security staffers just stand around NOW doing nothing doesn't mean they can man a table at the art show during the art show opening times. We have peak hours, and those two very officers may be on duty somewhere completely else the next moment. And as someone else already mentioned, having a luggage / camera check-in like that does cause even more logistical problems, as well as staff related requirements we can't always meet.

When you say that your expectations weren't quite met, I have to say I'm sorry, but we're all just human, we err, we try to respond to an ever-changing situation by adapting as well as we can, but it's not always possible to see every little thing. And issues like the technical and medical delays do happen, and sometimes they are so massive that they even eat up the safety-buffer we put into our timeslots. Sometimes, all we can do is to hold the strings together before something falls apart.

At the same time, I found it quite impressive how the Pawpet Show almost started on time this year, and there was absolutely no positive mention of this so far.

And this wasn't ironic or cynical, if you want to help us running EF, consider yourself welcome! But please understand that half the staff has fallen into a coma and will take a well-needed break at the moment. :)
« Last Edit: 08.09.2012, 01:12:12 by BigBlueFox »
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silverfoxwolf

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #108 on: 08.09.2012, 01:28:10 »

BBF I have to say that nothing I have commented on has been intended as any kind of personal critisism to anyone. People will pick up on negative things that happen at events more then the positives. As I said to you at the convention itself, for the most part it was a good time.

From my perspective, I've been working with event planning and emergency management for six years so I'm not just throwing things out for the pure sake of it.
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Cheetah

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #109 on: 08.09.2012, 01:47:43 »

Actually the reasoning behind the point is to spread events out over a wider space of time.

Our problem is the quotient Q=(furries/room). We need Q<=1. There's only two ways to get there: Reduce the number of furries or spread them out over more rooms. Since shooting people to free space is not an option, we have to run concurrent events in many rooms. Makes sense now?

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Where else would you have put it, with the entire afternoon being taken by the fursuit parade and concert setup going on at the same time?
I would have swapped the concert and fursuit games, since concerts generally run later then other events at shows in general.

Completely reconfiguring the sound setup of the stage, changing backdrops, setting up the lighting, soundcheck and rehearsal for the concert took 3 hours. Instrument and stage platform setup began even earlier, behind the closed curtains WHILE the dance contest was running. So, with that huge setup effort in mind, swapping the concert and the gameshow would have resulted in a concert that could theoratically start at 3 in the morning after a 5 hour gap.  If that's your idea of great scheduling, I'm glad you're not in charge of scheduling anything at EF :)

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I am well aware of unexpected events causing a problem, I was not raising reasons behind it

Yeah, except for putting it under the heading "Events were very poorly scheduled". No, in reality, running complex events with amateurs can sometimes get pretty unpredictable. I'm sorry for every minute of delay, but you'd be surprised how unforseen chalenges can blow even the most paranoid schedule to smithereens. The reason why I'm reacting so aggressively is the way you convey your "observations" here, as if the solutions to the problems are totally simple, and we're all just too idiotic to see them. Why don't we just swap events around? Why don't we just put two tables in?

BECAUSE ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE. If it were that simple, we'd done it already. We're not doing this for the first time, you know?

« Last Edit: 08.09.2012, 02:02:34 by Cheetah »
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Jake R

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #110 on: 08.09.2012, 01:55:01 »

At the same time, I found it quite impressive how the Pawpet Show almost started on time this year, and there was absolutely no positive mention of this so far.

I was actually rather sad about that, I was still very busy selling otter noses! They went like hot canin.... *cough* cakes! D=

Seriously though: I agree. Kudos for punctuality in general, I hardly heard any complaints about things starting late. Except for the Auction (I believe it was). That started several minutes (GASP!) late. A DISASTER, right, Kage? =)
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o'wolf

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #111 on: 08.09.2012, 02:21:39 »

No, in reality, running complex events with amateurs can sometimes get pretty unpredictable.

Especially as we are doing a large-scale event like this only once a year. If we were doing this every week as our main job, it would run much more smoothly, of course. Everyone with even just a little bit of insight in event organization says that what we are doing with a small bunch of volunteers is completely impossible. Yet we pull it off, even if some things don't quite work out the way we intended them to.

I take it as a great compliment that our guests expect an amount of professionalism you rarely even find at professional events, and yes I've been to a number, but everyone who has suggestions how to improve — please keep in mind that as we don't get paid for our work our motivation comes from knowing that most of our attendees, our guests, had a great time overall. If you keep your criticism constructive, realistic and fair, we're going to value your opinion. If you are just bickering about minor issues, or things we do not have much influence on like the price of beverages or the softness of pillows, please bear with us if our response may be not so friendly. Especially if it comes to issues we have to explain each year over and over again, like the price of beverages or the softness of pillows.
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Atkelar

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #112 on: 08.09.2012, 02:27:11 »

Have to say, I very much enjoyed watching the fursuit gameshow this year, I'm not sure if what we were watching was what had been planned, but as entertainment it was absolutely first class, I damned near fell of my chair laughing! :)

Definitely on my watch list for next year! :)

Other than the 15 minute or so delay after the first game where we too had to deal with a medical incident backstage it was running as planned!

maybe just a comment about this:
the storyteller part was awfully long and very very difficult to understand.
I know it is not easy to clearly speak from inside a fursuite head, but wouldnt there be some better way to hear the commentator voice?  like a compact mic inside the fursuite head?

also, I would have just fell of my chair if someone had played Benny Hills chase music at the final "hunt" stage :D

I'm sorry for that and we are looking forward to change that "hard to understand" part one way or the other (there are several options). We already had mic-in-head setups in previous years but they didn't work that well either. Pre-recording the storyteller script was an option but I figured that would lead to it being less interactive - i.e. there wouldn't be any time for the suiter to elaborate on things. Also the length was a bit underestimated and will be dealt with, should this game return in some form.

Greetings,
  Atkelar - Fursuit Gameshow
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Fafnir Kristensen

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #113 on: 08.09.2012, 02:49:05 »

The host did have a headset mike initially, as in previous years, but it fell off/out early in the show so he had to resort to a handheld mike for most of the event.

I fear I missed the beginning of the event, my apologies for suggesting something that was already planned
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Fafnir Kristensen

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #114 on: 08.09.2012, 02:50:43 »

At the same time, I found it quite impressive how the Pawpet Show almost started on time this year, and there was absolutely no positive mention of this so far.
I did in my first feedback, though I didnt mention the events individually.
Lightfox said it too.

be sure that wasnt unnoticed, it was really appreciated at its true value
« Last Edit: 08.09.2012, 02:53:13 by Fafnir Kristensen »
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silverfoxwolf

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #115 on: 08.09.2012, 05:33:34 »

Cheetah, you asked what I would have done with regard to the events being scheduled the way they were I replied with my thoughts. Throwing in information that I was not aware of does not help really to make an observation after it has already been made.

You're reading far too much into what I've written down beyond the actual text.
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Gero

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #116 on: 08.09.2012, 10:05:03 »

My only "concern" regarding the timetable was that the dance competition was during the time before the parade, where most needed to go and change, or at least I did. But I can understand that its not easy to get a timetable that fits every one. Maybe you could let the dance competition start earlier, or swap it to a nightime event? Or maybe had it after the photo session on saterday?

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Henrieke

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #117 on: 08.09.2012, 11:26:27 »

EF was AWESOME!!!1
...yes, I will write some actual feedback soon, but I have to say most of my concerns from last year had been resolved this year, and I can't really think of much to complain about! (at least, things that the staff could change at all)

I honestly don't really get all the complaints about the food, given that it's the HOTEL who offers this, not the con. Yes, I wish they'd just close the restaurant, I never even ever saw a con attendee in there, and it could be used as con space, or so... but this is the hotel's business. I'm already VERY happy they worked along with some other things, like opening the staircases, it helped SO much. Food has never been a problem for us at all, we just brought bowls and spoons and ate cereal for breakfast every day. Kaufland is near and super cheap and offers anything you might need, like drinks and fresh fruits. (also super tasty fruit yoghurt for 33 cents, omg??!) There are PLENTY of restaurants near that offer good food for a good price. You get a big plate of spaghetti with salad for 4 euro at the house of steaks, and thanks to your con badge you get free coffee with it as well. I know you can't bring your own drinks to the lobby, so how about just drinking it at your room? I just had bottles of water with me and I never had any trouble drinking that. Really, people complaining this much about the food make me wonder if they have ever been on a holiday at all... I ALWAYS bring my own stuff, or at least buy it in a supermarket. Otherwise I would never even be able to go on trips at all. I am a freelancer and have a very low income, and I need to save up pretty much the whole year to be able to attend EF. You can save a lot of money just by being clever.

My main point of concern this year:
The charity lottery table should be much more visible! Last year we had the fortune wheel, this year many of my friends apparantly didn't even notice the table. But well, I'm sure I can help out with some big banner or sign next year so the table won't be missed :) And then afterwards we can sell that banner for charity XD


Ok... that became a long post still, after all. I'll write more soon, but for now, thank you all for the great con! I really appreciate the hard work :)
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Nightfox

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #118 on: 08.09.2012, 11:35:04 »

Throwing in information that I was not aware of does not help really to make an observation after it has already been made.


See it the other way around, if you make an observation you should ask us about the background information FIRST before giving us useless advice sounding very bigheaded.

When a few staff members already got offended by your comments you should think about your word choice too, your postings sound snippy and smart-assy and nobody likes that, no matter if it is a furry convention or normal business life.

(edited: Fixed a small "false friend" issue, hope you don't mind - Cheetah)
« Last Edit: 08.09.2012, 16:57:25 by Cheetah »
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Nightfox

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #119 on: 08.09.2012, 11:43:41 »

@Henrieke

I got the numbers last year from the restaurant and you would be surprised how many furrys go there ;)
The preakfast is highly frequented and the lunch and dinner business is ok too.
I ate there once and its nice when you need good food in a quiet ambiance.

Besides this the lowered the prices for the bar snack menu massively,
the burger for 9€ was more than fair you could feed two people with that thing ;)

The idea abou the charity desk is very very good, i think we will make them one of our official roll ups to.
First to make the table more visible and second to show guests that this is a official Eurofurence thing and not something else.
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