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Author Topic: EF20 Art Show feedback for artists  (Read 6439 times)

Tinka

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EF20 Art Show feedback for artists
« on: 02.09.2014, 22:18:44 »

I've now bought a few items from both EF19 and EF20 Art Show auctions and have a few things to say to artists..

Generally I don't like buying prints, even limited ones. I know digital art needs to be printed anyway so for digital artists its a bummer - but its just not very nice buying an expensive 'limited print 1/1' of size A or on material B - when next year the same artist puts the same art up on the auction again in a different size or format. Might as well buy the poster of it for 10 eur next year ;3

Original traditional art has that exclusive feeling to it and the personal connection that you get to have the actual piece of canvas or material and ink that the artist has held in his or hands. Prints just don't have that feeling. And even if you see the art somewhere printed you know that you have the original :3

Frame your art nicely. Piece of paper without a frame looks really bad on the auction wall - whereas a good frame with the right color and right spacing can actually become part of the artwork by accentuating the piece (and a terrible frame ruin its look) >:3

I buy the art for the art - not the frame. BUT and this is a big but - if you want to appreciate your buyers, make them love you and come back for more next year - it helps a lot when the art I've bought has a frame I can actually hang from my wall - maybe for years. If its substandard I have to go through the bother and expense of re-framing the piece.

A good frame with a glass will protect your art when I transport it in my luggage back home - but if you are bringing art to the auction in your own packaging then please, please leave the packaging at the auction so that buyer can re-wrap it. Especially for larger pieces.

Thank you :3
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Fafnir Kristensen

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Re: EF20 Art Show feedback for artists
« Reply #1 on: 02.09.2014, 23:02:10 »

that would be ok if people realized how much a nice frame cost. sometime the starting bid value doesnt even cover the cost of the frame (the usual incentive undervalued starting bid problem) and seeing the art they did go away for a misery certainly doesnt motivate them to put nice costly frame
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Schorse

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Re: EF20 Art Show feedback for artists
« Reply #2 on: 02.09.2014, 23:03:26 »

I was about to write the same about the prints. And it makes me wonder why some of them go for enormous amounts of money, because it's "only" a better quality poster.
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Fafnir Kristensen

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Re: EF20 Art Show feedback for artists
« Reply #3 on: 02.09.2014, 23:06:29 »

I was about to write the same about the prints. And it makes me wonder why some of them go for enormous amounts of money, because it's "only" a better quality poster.

depends how it was printed.

if it's the usual print on caneva, then yes Im not really interested, especially if it is 1 of 5 or whatever number greater than 1.

but when it's, for example, printed on glass (for example Alector's two print this year) or metal or things like that, then it is more interesting
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Cheetah

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Re: EF20 Art Show feedback for artists
« Reply #4 on: 03.09.2014, 11:10:09 »

I was about to write the same about the prints. And it makes me wonder why some of them go for enormous amounts of money, because it's "only" a better quality poster.

In an auction situation, a lot of social factors come into play - that's why prices are so unpredictable, and only very loosely related to objective qualities. Personal preferences, bidder competition, perceived scarcity - it often does not always make any objective sense at all. It has a big game aspect to it.
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Korrok

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Re: EF20 Art Show feedback for artists
« Reply #5 on: 03.09.2014, 11:54:08 »

I've now bought a few items from both EF19 and EF20 Art Show auctions and have a few things to say to artists..

Generally I don't like buying prints, even limited ones. I know digital art needs to be printed anyway so for digital artists its a bummer - but its just not very nice buying an expensive 'limited print 1/1' of size A or on material B - when next year the same artist puts the same art up on the auction again in a different size or format. Might as well buy the poster of it for 10 eur next year ;3

Original traditional art has that exclusive feeling to it and the personal connection that you get to have the actual piece of canvas or material and ink that the artist has held in his or hands. Prints just don't have that feeling. And even if you see the art somewhere printed you know that you have the original :3

Frame your art nicely. Piece of paper without a frame looks really bad on the auction wall - whereas a good frame with the right color and right spacing can actually become part of the artwork by accentuating the piece (and a terrible frame ruin its look) >:3

I buy the art for the art - not the frame. BUT and this is a big but - if you want to appreciate your buyers, make them love you and come back for more next year - it helps a lot when the art I've bought has a frame I can actually hang from my wall - maybe for years. If its substandard I have to go through the bother and expense of re-framing the piece.

A good frame with a glass will protect your art when I transport it in my luggage back home - but if you are bringing art to the auction in your own packaging then please, please leave the packaging at the auction so that buyer can re-wrap it. Especially for larger pieces.

Thank you :3

Using an expensive/high quality frame, as others pointed out, is not a terribly good option for artists because furry art sells for generally so little. If we have to spend 20 euro on a frame and start the art at 40 euro just to be competitive, it's a bit pointless.

Personally for the last couple of cons I've put all my frames in decent quality mats (passepartout), in an acetate bag for transport. The mats are cut to easily available frame sizes e.g. 30x40cm which allows you to then go ahead and purchase a frame that you like at your own budget point, and all you need to do is drop the matted artwork in.
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Cheetah

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Re: EF20 Art Show feedback for artists
« Reply #6 on: 03.09.2014, 12:28:41 »

I've been to a lot of convention art shows, I've organized a dew, and I used to share my home with an artist for a while. Unless you happen to be a fandom legend whose pieces basically have a guarantee of selling out within minutes, my personal advice would be to ALWAYS set the minimum bid that it covers the material costs. If that raises the hurdle so much that you don't get any bids at all, you have three options: 

a) Make your art more attractive
b) Make your art more scarce (Put up fewer pieces or grow your customer base.)
c) Reduce Material Costs

Or all of the above. But never sell your artwork below production value - ideally not even below market value - just to make a sale. It's not worth it. Better take a piece home than selling it at a loss.
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SiranaJHelena

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Re: EF20 Art Show feedback for artists
« Reply #7 on: 03.09.2014, 22:54:08 »

Hi,

I'm an artist and I'm working both digital and traditional for many years now.
Please don't read this post as an aggressive reaction. I'd like to share my point of view and experiences with you to give you an insight about the position of an artist. (Although I sure don't speak for all artists.)

I understand why people are still having the idea that digital art is less worth than traditional. Computers in general were created to simplify work, to create stuff more easily and to storage and copy large ammounts of information. Computers make things easier, so painting with them must be easier, too, right? No mess with color blotches on the clothing, no need to buy tons of new colors and many tools in graphic programs you would need many different brushes for in traditional artwork. Also you can correct stuff as often as you want without damaging the paper or accidently mixing colors. So, not such a big deal, right?

No. ;)

When I started drawing digital more often, around 1-2 years ago, I felt like being in the kindergarden again, having huge thick color pencils and nearly no motoric skills. It was a completely new medium just like painting with acryl in comparison with pencil artwork. It took a while to handle the tool itself, not to mention the time I needed to make something which looked good.
Everything works completely different, from mixing colors to making clean outlines. Sure, the basic anatomy you know, the theory behind your motives, color contrast and all this stays the same but that's it. You also have to manage new problems you don't have with traditional methods.

Additionally, the program still doesn't do your work. Planing the motive, working with different perspectives, research for information about anatomy, choosing the right colors,.. you can't just skip that by telling the program what you'd like to have.

For EF20 I planned to make three pictures fitting to the CSI topic. All of them digital. None of them were ready in time because I underrated the problems I would have to deal with, based both of the perspective/motive and the digital tools. Especially one large picture took me already way more time with the preparation, sketches and the outlines than any completed traditional artwork before. And it's not even ready yet.

Digital art is a lot of work you just don't see when the picture is done. It means also many costs with expensive programs, graphic tablets, a fast computer, printing fees and so on.
But more important: Digital art is medium just like colored pencils, water color, pencils or oil is. It has as many advantages and disadvantages like the others and it is hard to learn drawing with it like it is with every new medium.
And most important: The quality of the picture depends on the artist, not the tool.


Of course, digital art can easily be reproduced and I myself don't like the idea of selling dozens of prints in nearly the same quality and size as the "original" limited prints which were sold for much more money. (That's why I wouldn't do this.) But with this thinking that digital art is not so much worth like traditional I wouldn't wonder if people wouldn't want to reward a digital picture the same way, so the artist tries to get at least an equal ammount of money by selling it e.g. 3 times than just one. (Don't have a proof for that though as I just started selling digital art and can't really compare it. Also I can't look into other artist's heads. ;) )

I hope this little very long post helps you to understand what it means to draw and sell digital artwork. :)



Oh, and about that frames: One of the EF20 pictures was planned to use a special frame aside from the typical photo formats. I looked after it in around 6-8 different shops of different price ranges.
1) Ikea had one: 6 Euro
2) A special story for frames had one: 30 Euro
3) No other shop had it.

I hate the one from Ikea because it's so thick but I doubt anyone would have payed me 30 Euro + the actuall worth of the picture inside. Maybe 30 for the complete package. So I have to go with the Ikea product now, although it's not as pretty and high quality ad the professional one.

There are many nice frames for a low price which don't make your pictures ugly as hell and I recommend rather using these ones instead of some cheap glass-only frame. It won't look really individual though if you don't paint it other, decorate it or whatever.
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Bezel

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Re: EF20 Art Show feedback for artists
« Reply #8 on: 04.09.2014, 19:39:45 »

I loved the art show this year - such an array of talent ! I managed to rack up quite an impressive bill in the auction - my bank hates me ;D

Anyway, two quick points to bring up...

Firstly - size. Please remember that many people will be flying home and have to get the artwork into their bags. There may be a wonderful, original, one of a kind, massively detailed, perfectly balanced, never-to-be-repeated piece, but if I can't get it into my suitcase, I can't bid on it.

Secondly - please, never use glass in a frame. If you're transporting it by car, it's fine, but for those of us from further abroad, I personally don't want to have to be picking shards of glass out of my socks for the next week (let alone the damage that could be caused to the artwork itself) if the worst happened at the airport. Many plastics are perfectly good substitutes - and if I really want glass, I can always get a piece of glass cut to size at minimal cost).

I suspect these points aren't normally a problem as EF draws people from far and wide, many of whom won't be flying - I just thought I'd mention them on behalf of those of us who do :)

Keep those brushes and styluses (styli ?) whizzing - you're all awesome ! :D
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SiranaJHelena

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Re: EF20 Art Show feedback for artists
« Reply #9 on: 04.09.2014, 20:09:05 »

Thanks for your critique. May I ask what size would fit in your suitcase? In my hole life I traveled by plane 3 times if you count both directions as one, so I really don't know what's common. My pictures are rather small but I'd like to do larger ones next year. :)

To the frames: I don't like transporting frames with glass, too, but it is of course a common way to present art in some kind of gallery. Usually I use a lot of bubble wrap but remembering how rude some people on the airport are handeling the suitcases I would worry about that, too. Unfortunately I can't really think of an alternative.
Would it be a compromise if I'd offer some mailing tubes for the pictures which don't get hurt when you roll them a little, so you don't have to use the frame at all?
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Fafnir Kristensen

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Re: EF20 Art Show feedback for artists
« Reply #10 on: 04.09.2014, 23:18:50 »

I loved the art show this year - such an array of talent ! I managed to rack up quite an impressive bill in the auction - my bank hates me ;D

Anyway, two quick points to bring up...

Firstly - size. Please remember that many people will be flying home and have to get the artwork into their bags. There may be a wonderful, original, one of a kind, massively detailed, perfectly balanced, never-to-be-repeated piece, but if I can't get it into my suitcase, I can't bid on it.

Secondly - please, never use glass in a frame. If you're transporting it by car, it's fine, but for those of us from further abroad, I personally don't want to have to be picking shards of glass out of my socks for the next week (let alone the damage that could be caused to the artwork itself) if the worst happened at the airport. Many plastics are perfectly good substitutes - and if I really want glass, I can always get a piece of glass cut to size at minimal cost).

I suspect these points aren't normally a problem as EF draws people from far and wide, many of whom won't be flying - I just thought I'd mention them on behalf of those of us who do :)

Keep those brushes and styluses (styli ?) whizzing - you're all awesome ! :D

err, what? artists should do small pieces because you cant fit it in your luggage?
the fuck, seriously, get real. if the art is too large, bad luck to you, really.

and if you see a piece you really want and you cant take it with you, seek someone else traveling by car who goes to the same area than you (plenty of people traveling by car from pretty much any european country) or get a package at a post office, wrap in bubblewrap and ship as fragile, of course it's not free, but it's doable...

beside, glass is not a problem if you correctly wrap the frame and, of course, have a rigid luggage.

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Bezel

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Re: EF20 Art Show feedback for artists
« Reply #11 on: 05.09.2014, 09:52:31 »

err, what? artists should do small pieces because you cant fit it in your luggage?
the fuck, seriously, get real. if the art is too large, bad luck to you, really.

and if you see a piece you really want and you cant take it with you, seek someone else traveling by car who goes to the same area than you (plenty of people traveling by car from pretty much any european country) or get a package at a post office, wrap in bubblewrap and ship as fragile, of course it's not free, but it's doable...

beside, glass is not a problem if you correctly wrap the frame and, of course, have a rigid luggage.



No, I think you've misunderstood my post. At no point did I request artists should change the size of their art - that's a decision entirely for them to make, and suggesting they should all "do small pieces so I can get them in my luggage" is both stupid and conceited - my apologies to you if you misunderstood this. The point I was trying to make was that size is a limiting factor for many travellers and that large pieces are therefore being aimed at an inherently smaller market of potential buyers.

As regards getting a friend with a car to take it - sure - if they're willing, if they have space and if you live anywhere near them. However those from, say, the USA or Australia may have a problem finding someone with a car who can drive it back for them ;) Based on previous experience, I'd personally (note - I say personally !) be highly reluctant to ship anything fragile and valuable by post.

Glass might not be a problem if you have the space to multi-wrap it in something that can cushion it - however, plastic requires less cushioning and is inherently safer for transport.
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Cheetah

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Re: EF20 Art Show feedback for artists
« Reply #12 on: 05.09.2014, 11:32:12 »

the fuck, seriously, get real. if the art is too large, bad luck to you, really.

Moderator warning: Please watch your wording, and stay polite.
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Cairyn

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Re: EF20 Art Show feedback for artists
« Reply #13 on: 05.09.2014, 12:23:19 »

Large format art is generally an issue for overseas buyers / plane travelling. Not just glass frames (although these are the most problematic since broken glass may destroy other items in your luggage), but also large canvas prints (may come apart when twisted), wooden frames even without glass, perhaps even those heavy alu-dibond prints. But ultimately that is something the buyer has to live with, and to take into account when buying.

If the frame is not essential for the presentation of the art, it may be wisest to leave it behind and transport the art in a cardboard roll, completely reframing it at home. It may also be possible to take apart a frame, leaving only the glass part behind, for transportation. (Measure the glass exactly for getting a perfect match at home.) Hardshell cases are recommendable in any case. There are options, even if they may not be cheap.

The Art Show has the option for artists to leave the packaging for the buyer, however, this is not an obligation, nor is this packaging guaranteed to be stable enough for airplane manhandling.
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Fafnir Kristensen

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Re: EF20 Art Show feedback for artists
« Reply #14 on: 05.09.2014, 14:49:00 »

sorry, I overreacted  :-\
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