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Eurofurence 25 "Fractures in Time" - Estrel Hotel Berlin, August 14-18, 2019Follow eurofurence on Twitter

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Author Topic: Queues and Queuing: The Who, The Why, The Where and the When  (Read 15363 times)

Tinka

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Re: Queues and Queuing: The Who, The Why, The Where and the When
« Reply #15 on: 03.09.2014, 12:21:01 »

The Queueing for Pawpet Show

*sigh*


No worries. I would've queued until dawn and beyond to see the show *HUGS* ! ^^'/
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Marcan

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Re: Queues and Queuing: The Who, The Why, The Where and the When
« Reply #16 on: 03.09.2014, 13:00:06 »

First of all, it's not the queue location we should be focusing on but running events as close to planned schedule as possible (referring to pawpet show obviously). THEN comes the queue. Let's hope next year there won't be such a need for queues altogether :3

I managed to snag a place for pawpet show in first row, entered just after the queue and found Dhary shouting "security team is giving up their seats on the right side". Also quite a few people from first five rows in the middle were absent, I asked and was told that once the seating ends I can move there. Again, Dhary said one more free seat in first row is available - nobody replied :P Guys, keep your eyes peeled during events ;)
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Runo

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Re: Queues and Queuing: The Who, The Why, The Where and the When
« Reply #17 on: 03.09.2014, 13:16:12 »

[As the night closed in, camp fires where lit, and then quickly extinguished by panicking security staff, afraid it would attract beast of the night (and also something about fire-safety)...

Didn't your momma tell you never to go out there without a proper Light? Only those will protect you in the dark of the night!

Praised be the Gods of the Holy Mountain!
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Elämä on epävarmaa - syö jälkiruoka ensin!

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Tsanawo

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Re: Queues and Queuing: The Who, The Why, The Where and the When
« Reply #18 on: 03.09.2014, 13:49:36 »

First of all, it's not the queue location we should be focusing on but running events as close to planned schedule as possible (referring to pawpet show obviously). THEN comes the queue. Let's hope next year there won't be such a need for queues altogether :3
Queues will happen, even if we would've managed to start on time with the PawPetShow, there still would've been a queue. Same with the other events that managed to get one.

@Runo: As it was and always will be!
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If all the world’s a stage… I want better lighting!

Bezel

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Re: Queues and Queuing: The Who, The Why, The Where and the When
« Reply #19 on: 03.09.2014, 13:51:22 »

This has probably been said already, but given how big the con has become, and how large some queues can be now, how about planning their management in advance? Like for instance, physically tracing a path using small pillars and strips, the way they do it in theme parks. This would make queues more ordered and easier to manage.

Unfortunately, queues in cons differ from theme parks in a couple of important ways.

Firstly, theme parks can have dedicated areas constantly set aside for queues. They're out of the way and no-one cares if there are people in the queue or not. At cons, we generally don't have the space for queues to be in place permanently and we also can't obstruct fire doors, entrances, exits, lifts, corridors etc. so they're generally set up only when needed and we try to route people where they won't obstruct any of the above. Of course, this is a learning process and we'll try and have things better organised for next year :)

Secondly, theme parks also have massive budgets for barriers etc. You'd be surprised just how much those tensa barriers cost, and the hotel only has a limited supply available - you may have noticed a lot of the queues were marked out by tape (which the con had bought) and chairs which we'd... borrowed... from the hotel ;) We tried our best with what we had :)

Using matrix signs and / or LCD tv's for croud control is something we do often at our work. Might also help out. Also using EFPrime (which was already used sometimes). Keep it up, I think you all did your best given the circumstances!

As I recall, we did try to get EF Prime updated when stage events were going to be delayed. As regards the signs, well anything is possible with enough money... if only we had some ;)

As has been previously mentioned though, security often doesn't get advance notice of delays - we just have to handle them when they occur. Honestly, we'd really prefer if you didn't have to queue - we don't like making you wait in line any more than you like being there :)

« Last Edit: 03.09.2014, 13:54:34 by Bezel »
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dougalwuff

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Re: Queues and Queuing: The Who, The Why, The Where and the When
« Reply #20 on: 04.09.2014, 00:40:44 »

I think it's time we give up on queuing as the system for the pawpet show. There's too many people and not enough seats, so people try to get there an hour in advance, just to be sure of getting a seat.

Maybe we could sell tickets before the show? 3 euros each from the charity booth? Divided up into sections (E.g. front middle and back) so that people don't feel so much urge to queue early to get good seats? It would make a lot for the charity.

Even if you don't charge money, some form of ticketing would still prevent hour-long queues.
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timoran

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Re: Queues and Queuing: The Who, The Why, The Where and the When
« Reply #21 on: 04.09.2014, 01:02:43 »

I think it's time we give up on queuing as the system for the pawpet show. There's too many people and not enough seats, so people try to get there an hour in advance, just to be sure of getting a seat.

Maybe we could sell tickets before the show? 3 euros each from the charity booth? Divided up into sections (E.g. front middle and back) so that people don't feel so much urge to queue early to get good seats? It would make a lot for the charity.

Even if you don't charge money, some form of ticketing would still prevent hour-long queues.

My hope is that they get the convention hall next year, and if they do there is a lot of space available in the convention center lobby to queue. And if other convention functions exist down there, that convention center lobby will naturally become a gathering space to put less pressure on the tables-and-chairs-filled main lobby!

Heck, with PPS falling at the end of the con, if they really hustle (and as a chair I would really hate to ask people to do that, but) they could vacate all of Convention Center ABCD and that whole huge room could just be seating for the PPS.

The big wildcard is Estrel Convention Center II, which is planned to open "Autumn 2015." If that is open, that creates even more space!
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Jorinda

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Re: Queues and Queuing: The Who, The Why, The Where and the When
« Reply #22 on: 04.09.2014, 09:38:31 »

Even if you don't charge money, some form of ticketing would still prevent hour-long queues.
Or maybe it would just cause hour-long queues at the ticket booth.  :P
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Tinka

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Re: Queues and Queuing: The Who, The Why, The Where and the When
« Reply #23 on: 04.09.2014, 10:37:18 »

Even if you don't charge money, some form of ticketing would still prevent hour-long queues.
Or maybe it would just cause hour-long queues at the ticket booth.  :P

If I may repeat myself - I have devised and patented a Tinka-2000 queueing system which EF can use free of charge. It goes like this:

1. Everyone is asked to join a huge big queue at one time.

2. Security goes thought the queue and hands everyone a blank piece of paper

3. Everyone writes their badge number on it, memorizes their location, and then places the piece of paper on the floor ... and walks off into the bar

4. Ones all the delays and further delays have been announced - and the door are about to finally open - everyone takes their place in the queue and walks in an orderly fashion to the stage :33

Voila ^^'/
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Cheetah

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Re: Queues and Queuing: The Who, The Why, The Where and the When
« Reply #24 on: 04.09.2014, 10:55:35 »

4. Ones all the delays and further delays have been announced - and the door are about to finally open - everyone takes their place in the queue and walks in an orderly fashion to the stage :33

What you're suggesting is basically this:



The problem with that is, it does not scale. People still need a room to wait in, and there is only one way for 1000 people to enter a room in an orderly fashion: In a line :) So you really don't gain anything. In fact, you'd make it even worse, because by trying to give everyone a defined sequence number in their queue you'd require everyone to cross everyone elses path multiple times trying to get back to their original place in the queue, which is worse than just forming a new queue and getting into the room right away :)

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yours,

Cheetah

Blue Raptor

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Re: Queues and Queuing: The Who, The Why, The Where and the When
« Reply #25 on: 05.09.2014, 20:00:30 »

Well of course you could hand out (colored) queue number sheets and put a sign over the door up to which number, or block of numbers entrance is allowed now when it opens, like airlines do with seat rows or zone on plane boarding.

The main point is noone would have to be actually WAITING that long if there was one long delay announced right away instead of many small ones.
Like when there are some troubles that could e.g. take 30 minutes but might likely take 45 minutes or an hour or an hour and half, you should imo just delay it by two hours. Instead of keeping people trapped in line by telling them it will delay another 20 or 30 minutes from now on, over and over.
Even if it does NOT take that long to fix everything then, the show will start later than it could have, but noone has to actually WAIT all the time because they can all go off and DO something, even have food somewhere outside of the hotel with 2 hours to work with, knowing for sure it won't start without them if they do.

(Yes, in the case of this year, the first delay was one whole hour, but after that it started with the usual "30 more minutes" marathon)
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Rah, I say.

Codewolf

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Re: Queues and Queuing: The Who, The Why, The Where and the When
« Reply #26 on: 05.09.2014, 20:53:51 »

Well of course you could hand out (colored) queue number sheets and put a sign over the door up to which number, or block of numbers entrance is allowed now when it opens, like airlines do with seat rows or zone on plane boarding.

The main point is noone would have to be actually WAITING that long if there was one long delay announced right away instead of many small ones.
Like when there are some troubles that could e.g. take 30 minutes but might likely take 45 minutes or an hour or an hour and half, you should imo just delay it by two hours. Instead of keeping people trapped in line by telling them it will delay another 20 or 30 minutes from now on, over and over.
Even if it does NOT take that long to fix everything then, the show will start later than it could have, but noone has to actually WAIT all the time because they can all go off and DO something, even have food somewhere outside of the hotel with 2 hours to work with, knowing for sure it won't start without them if they do.

(Yes, in the case of this year, the first delay was one whole hour, but after that it started with the usual "30 more minutes" marathon)

The thing is the queuing will happen if theres a ticket system or not. people would queue to be the first one on the sign up sheets!!

With regards to delays, as has been said many times before, most of the time the length of the delay is not known beforehand, we could say 2 hours and the delay could be 10 minutes or the delay could be 4 hours. we just dont know.
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Runo

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Re: Queues and Queuing: The Who, The Why, The Where and the When
« Reply #27 on: 05.09.2014, 22:29:05 »

Exactly, especially with technical problems, it often happens that fixing one leads to the discovery of nother that wasn't apparent before.

And I don't even want to know about the outrage if a delay of two hours would be announced to cover all possible delays, and the doors would open after one hour because it had been fixed quicker than anticipated, with people now having left and not returning in time… So you see, it's a difficult topic.
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Elämä on epävarmaa - syö jälkiruoka ensin!

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Blue Raptor

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Re: Queues and Queuing: The Who, The Why, The Where and the When
« Reply #28 on: 06.09.2014, 09:42:59 »

Um, if you'd delay it for two hours, that means of course NOT opening the doors until after that two hours.
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Rah, I say.

Schorse

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Re: Queues and Queuing: The Who, The Why, The Where and the When
« Reply #29 on: 06.09.2014, 11:06:01 »

I think it's time we give up on queuing as the system for the pawpet show. There's too many people and not enough seats, so people try to get there an hour in advance, just to be sure of getting a seat.

Not enough seats?

I was in that queue as well, around 7pm. Then came the announcement that the PPS is delayed for another 2 hours. So I left and went for dinner.
When I came back, the last people from the queue entered the stage, so I followed. I was sitting at the left side from the FoH desk, with a good view of the stage. And there were lots of empty seats around.
Even in the previous years, I entered the room as one of the latest. And always found an empty seat.
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