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Eurofurence 25 "Fractures in Time" - Estrel Hotel Berlin, August 14-18, 2019Follow eurofurence on Twitter

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Author Topic: EF22: Hasn't Dealers den become too small?  (Read 2625 times)

RedFoxy

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EF22: Hasn't Dealers den become too small?
« on: 23.08.2016, 15:35:57 »

A lot of customer, a lot of dealers surrounded by customer and other customer that can't reach tables, log queue as usual and dealers that cannot get a seat inside, isn't time to move dealers den in a bigger place?

Santa fox

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Re: EF22: Hasn't Dealers den become too small?
« Reply #1 on: 23.08.2016, 16:11:54 »

A lot of customer, a lot of dealers surrounded by customer and other customer that can't reach tables, log queue as usual and dealers that cannot get a seat inside, isn't time to move dealers den in a bigger place?

I think the official word is that the DD is currently as big as it can be? There simply isn't any other place that can host it at the moment, since everything is used for something. Might be completely wrong, though, but I do know it's been asked before.
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Cairyn

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Re: EF22: Hasn't Dealers den become too small?
« Reply #2 on: 23.08.2016, 16:13:43 »

The problem is that there is no larger space that is not already occupied by something else (Art Show, e.g. is also overflowing).
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ScrappyTheFox

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Re: EF22: Hasn't Dealers den become too small?
« Reply #3 on: 23.08.2016, 16:52:16 »

It was also stinkin hot in there like OMG i feel sorry for the dealers who had to sit in there the whole day in that desert like heat.
I was able sto stay in there maybe half a minute at most before i needed to go outside/to the bar and cool off.
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Carenath

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Re: EF22: Hasn't Dealers den become too small?
« Reply #4 on: 23.08.2016, 17:46:57 »

I do not believe there is a simple workable solution to this issue short of moving rooms. It's a similar problem faced by Anthrocon a few years back where even then they were bursting at the seams until they moved into the larger half of the DLC.

I agree it was quite crowded, it tended to bottleneck near the middle where you have people standing at the tables and others either trying to move past or reach the same tables themselves. Something that needs a bit of thinking about to improve for next year I feel.
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RedEye

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Re: EF22: Hasn't Dealers den become too small?
« Reply #5 on: 23.08.2016, 18:52:09 »

Some rooms do feel a bit crowded but that's the situation we sometimes have to live with for a while.
It would be interesting to see if any of the new buildings that the Estrel hotel are at could be used. I did spot 2 or 3 digouts for massive buildings next to the hotel and I do suspect, when time comes, that somethings can be migrated around and make room for even more things.
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Runo

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Re: EF22: Hasn't Dealers den become too small?
« Reply #6 on: 23.08.2016, 18:53:10 »

The problem is that there is no larger space that is not already occupied by something else (Art Show, e.g. is also overflowing).


…and renting more space would be pretty expensive. So until the con has grown enough that this can be offset by *more* tickets instead of higher ticket prices, it's something we'll have to live with. EF operates on a shoestring budget as is, and without most staff pouring in loads of their own money for equipment, etc., there would be no con. And attendees are already complaining about EF being too expensive…  :-\
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RedFoxy

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Re: EF22: Hasn't Dealers den become too small?
« Reply #7 on: 23.08.2016, 19:07:37 »

…and renting more space would be pretty expensive. So until the con has grown enough that this can be offset by *more* tickets instead of higher ticket prices, it's something we'll have to live with. EF operates on a shoestring budget as is, and without most staff pouring in loads of their own money for equipment, etc., there would be no con. And attendees are already complaining about EF being too expensive…  :-\

That's true too... And Dealers den it's a free area for dealers and customers, an area that need specific staff members... But... What do you think if they'll swaps artists gallery and dealers den locations?

Runo

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Re: EF22: Hasn't Dealers den become too small?
« Reply #8 on: 23.08.2016, 19:25:02 »

…and renting more space would be pretty expensive. So until the con has grown enough that this can be offset by *more* tickets instead of higher ticket prices, it's something we'll have to live with. EF operates on a shoestring budget as is, and without most staff pouring in loads of their own money for equipment, etc., there would be no con. And attendees are already complaining about EF being too expensive…  :-\

That's true too... And Dealers den it's a free area for dealers and customers, an area that need specific staff members... But... What do you think if they'll swaps artists gallery and dealers den locations?

Pshhht, don't say that too loud, or Cairyn will skin you alive! ;)
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Snow-wolf

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Re: EF22: Hasn't Dealers den become too small?
« Reply #9 on: 23.08.2016, 19:30:20 »

…and renting more space would be pretty expensive. So until the con has grown enough that this can be offset by *more* tickets instead of higher ticket prices, it's something we'll have to live with. EF operates on a shoestring budget as is, and without most staff pouring in loads of their own money for equipment, etc., there would be no con. And attendees are already complaining about EF being too expensive…  :-\

That's true too... And Dealers den it's a free area for dealers and customers, an area that need specific staff members... But... What do you think if they'll swaps artists gallery and dealers den locations?

Pshhht, don't say that too loud, or Cairyn will skin you alive! ;)

The dealers as well :D
It's nice to actually have sunlight wheb you have to sit and work in there all day.
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Cairyn

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Re: EF22: Hasn't Dealers den become too small?
« Reply #10 on: 23.08.2016, 21:33:33 »

But... What do you think if they'll swaps artists gallery and dealers den locations?

And then we would have only a fraction of the art show left... which is already too small as well, given the number (and necessary reductions) of panel applications. In many cases, artists are also dealers btw... so they'd lose either way.

The distribution of rooms has already been discussed extensively, and with the given space, this is the optimal method so far.
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Alpha_Ki

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Re: EF22: Hasn't Dealers den become too small?
« Reply #11 on: 25.08.2016, 11:24:47 »

A lot of customer, a lot of dealers surrounded by customer and other customer that can't reach tables, log queue as usual and dealers that cannot get a seat inside, isn't time to move dealers den in a bigger place?

It was also stinkin hot in there like OMG i feel sorry for the dealers who had to sit in there the whole day in that desert like heat.
I was able sto stay in there maybe half a minute at most before i needed to go outside/to the bar and cool off.

All I can say is:

Thank you for pointing out the obvious!

Don't get me wrong, we KNOW since years, that the Dealers' Den is way to small. That is why we try to find solutions like the Artist Alley which made a lot of people happy.
We thought about switching with either the Fursuit Lounge or the ArtShow. Both would not go well. You don't want to have headless steaming suiters in a greenhouse and you don't want to hide the artists in the dark. The artists want a table in the Den since they earn money with doing sketches. That works best in bright daylight.
Having huge windows helps with the light but it also helps the sun heating up the room. The air condition is not made for so many people and good weather outside. ^^;

If someone has a problem with crowded places, then why not coming back on Friday? On Friday noon there are usually just a few customers in the Den so you can have nice look at every table and space to go through. If you need to storm in with the big rush on Thursday then, sorry to say that, don't complain about too many people and not enough air.

The problem we face: We need a huge room with daylight, doors that can be locked, which is no emergancy route (since the doors shouldn't be locked) and don't cost extra. Cause extra costs means higher prizes for con tickets. If it were that easy we would have had a better and larger Den since last year. ;)


Every year after EF we start discussing with the hotel. Nightfox does a great job on that. Maybe we can have a nice solution until the new Tower has opened. But until then we have to work with what we have and try to make the best out of it. Thank you for your feedback!
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Sheena-Tiger

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Re: EF22: Hasn't Dealers den become too small?
« Reply #12 on: 25.08.2016, 17:00:30 »

That is why we try to find solutions like the Artist Alley which made a lot of people happy.

I am one of those happy people... not as an artist but as customer who found something he liked and would not have found otherwise... as the artist would have had no place with the Artist Alley. And it means, meeting a new, nice person as well. Clearly, this year worked better than last year!

Carenath

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Re: EF22: Hasn't Dealers den become too small?
« Reply #13 on: 25.08.2016, 20:15:32 »

...If you need to storm in with the big rush on Thursday then, sorry to say that, don't complain about too many people and not enough air.
The problem is that some artists who secure a spot at the den are among the highly sought after with limited slots for comissions and they sell out on the first day, every year. This is why you get the bums rush and large queues along with those hoping fervently that the supersponsors getting early access don't buy out the artist you're hoping to snag a piece from.

To me though, that's a sign of a healthy economy, that we artists are able to earn money and clients can meet the artists they like in person. I feel similar about the Artist Alley too and I thank whoever came up with that idea. There's not really anything that can be done I suppose, it sounds like all the various avenues were explored to find the best solution.
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RedFoxy

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Re: EF22: Hasn't Dealers den become too small?
« Reply #14 on: 28.08.2016, 00:58:06 »

All I can say is:

Thank you for pointing out the obvious!

Don't get me wrong, we KNOW since years, that the Dealers' Den is way to small. That is why we try to find solutions like the Artist Alley which made a lot of people happy.
We thought about switching with either the Fursuit Lounge or the ArtShow. Both would not go well. You don't want to have headless steaming suiters in a greenhouse and you don't want to hide the artists in the dark. The artists want a table in the Den since they earn money with doing sketches. That works best in bright daylight.
Having huge windows helps with the light but it also helps the sun heating up the room. The air condition is not made for so many people and good weather outside. ^^;

If someone has a problem with crowded places, then why not coming back on Friday? On Friday noon there are usually just a few customers in the Den so you can have nice look at every table and space to go through. If you need to storm in with the big rush on Thursday then, sorry to say that, don't complain about too many people and not enough air.

The problem we face: We need a huge room with daylight, doors that can be locked, which is no emergancy route (since the doors shouldn't be locked) and don't cost extra. Cause extra costs means higher prizes for con tickets. If it were that easy we would have had a better and larger Den since last year. ;)


Every year after EF we start discussing with the hotel. Nightfox does a great job on that. Maybe we can have a nice solution until the new Tower has opened. But until then we have to work with what we have and try to make the best out of it. Thank you for your feedback!
I'm not unhappy of EF or actual situations, just you ask and that was first thing I thinks... It wasn't something against or to poke you, I know that there are a big and hard work behind, and I thank's you for that!

There aren't good solutions now with that spaces or without increasing spaces to rent
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