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Author Topic: EF18 Feedback  (Read 51250 times)

SouthPaw

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #75 on: 07.09.2012, 13:21:00 »

* Been said a million times but again, the soda and water prices were insane! €5 for a pint of Coke was bad enough but €3 for 200ml is really taking advantage of a captive crowd.  I realise you could go out and get your own drinks from Kaufland or whatever but when the beer is cheaper than the soft drinks, it's no surprise people drink themselves silly.

Sadly, if you go into any bar, soft drinks are almost always more expensive than beer, it's not specific to the Maritim. The current London meet venue, for example, charges £2.65 (3,33€) for a 330ml Coke, with pints (568ml) of draught beer from £4.00 (5,02€).
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Cairyn

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #76 on: 07.09.2012, 13:22:07 »

Since I am a master of bringing art smaller than the bidsheets (as you already noticed) I guess I am comming across new and innovative panel problems over the time. *g* But instead of just bitching I want at least to try finding a solution for this. :)

I will try to keep all this in mind for the next time I should need it. Do you think it's wise or even necessary to add this kind of information to the homepage next year or am I the only one being a pest again? XD

We could leave a square empty on the bidsheet, so you can put the art inside :-) No really, I would recommend a table to put these tiny things on, but then a really small item is easily pocketed. You may want a table nevertheless to put the bidsheets on. The people who sell magnets do this.

I have made a note to include the information on what holes are usable with the photo guide. We may expand this section even more next year (currently I have made no new photos).
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Cairyn

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #77 on: 07.09.2012, 13:39:17 »

Cairyn:
Last year I had an expensive (and borrowed) camera with me, and felt rather uncomfortable with leaving my stuff outside. [...]

Yes, that topic is still unresolved, although it is discussed every year, especially with a growing number of people in the overflow hotels. This does not just affect the art show. However, just putting up a table with no mechanism to track the items is not suitable: if your stuff gets handed out to the wrong person who just keeps it, you would be rightfully pissed, even if the table is announced as "leave stuff at your own risk". And with a large crowd like this, I would not guarantee that it doesn't ever happen. So, a more elaborate solution is necessary.

However, I need to leave this discussion to ConOps and Security, since the Art Show itself cannot provide the space or personnel to man an item desk.
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silverfoxwolf

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #78 on: 07.09.2012, 13:48:37 »

Why can the art show not provide space? That room was more then large enough to facilitate two desks for items to be stores upon. A simple cloakroom ticket would mean only the person with the ticket could obtain the items back again. As security is already manning the door I don't see how it would need to have any more staff then is already there.

Leaving cameras on the floor was a bad idea from the start, I suggested to Cueball that some tables be placed there, within a few minutes he had obtained some and put them outside the door to keep things on. It's not difficult or expensive to provide basic facilities.
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Cairyn

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #79 on: 07.09.2012, 14:14:04 »

Why can the art show not provide space? That room was more then large enough to facilitate two desks for items to be stores upon. A simple cloakroom ticket would mean only the person with the ticket could obtain the items back again. As security is already manning the door I don't see how it would need to have any more staff then is already there.

Leaving cameras on the floor was a bad idea from the start, I suggested to Cueball that some tables be placed there, within a few minutes he had obtained some and put them outside the door to keep things on. It's not difficult or expensive to provide basic facilities.

It is unfortunately not possible to just put a table somewhere in a room, you need to permanently man it and control access to it. Security in front of the door cannot handle a table that is inside the show, so any item tables need to be outside as well, or separately staffed. It also needs to handle a peak number of items, which probably will happen during the Closing, where there are many security members already occupied with other things, so the personnel situation matters.

I do agree however that it is a good idea to have an item desk at least in a basic version, I will look into the matter some more, although it will most likely stay an "at your own risk" thing.
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Coadey

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #80 on: 07.09.2012, 14:21:55 »

This was my first EF, and first con outside the US.  My husband hadn't been since EF1, so we didn't really know what to expect.

+ It was amazing!  So many incredible suits, activities and friendly furs from around the world.
+ The venue was brilliant, clean and easy to travel to.
+ Courteous, professional con staff.
+ Free Wi-Fi; a life-line for friends without a mobile.
+ Good scheduling, but public announcement reminders would be nice.
+ The con book was beautiful and extensive.
+ Big Blue Dance!

- More coordination to help everyone get into the theme.  Maybe costume pieces for sale/rent, or a workshop?  A bonus for those who get into it? By the way, who had that amazing suit of armor??

- Vegan eating options were scarce.  We had German friends who could help (hugs to Martin and Chieron!) but more con support would be really appreciated (info in the book, coordination with the venue - make/mark options on menus). I'd be happy to help.

- As Bigwig said, please use larger fonts on the badges or offer name tag stickers, so you can see who someone is from more than 6 inches away.  :3

Really looking forward to Confuzzled and EF19. 
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Nightfox

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #81 on: 07.09.2012, 15:43:25 »


Sponsors: I don't really think as a sponsor I got value for money. Essentially there was a coin and a tshirt provided as well as a late arriving pin. But supersponsors got the early entry into the den and exclusive events and flask. Now I really think sponsors should have at least gotten early entry into the den, I'm not bothered about getting better seating for events as for the most part the main stage events were not of interest to me.


Please don't get me wrong but if you "demand" something in return you should not choose sponsor or supersponsor.

In the first place you are a sponsor to support the con and therefore we are very very grateful, we need sponsors.

But the gifts and privileges you get are just a bonus, nothing more.

We can't offer seats for sponsors and supersponsoers cause we would have to reserve 300 seats for every event or let in 300 people first.

If you consider being a  sponsor or supersponsor for your personal value then you should consider just the basic membership cause we will never be able to fulfill your expectations.

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Gero

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #82 on: 07.09.2012, 15:58:33 »

* Been said a million times but again, the soda and water prices were insane! €5 for a pint of Coke was bad enough but €3 for 200ml is really taking advantage of a captive crowd.  I realise you could go out and get your own drinks from Kaufland or whatever but when the beer is cheaper than the soft drinks, it's no surprise people drink themselves silly.

Sadly, if you go into any bar, soft drinks are almost always more expensive than beer, it's not specific to the Maritim. The current London meet venue, for example, charges £2.65 (3,33€) for a 330ml Coke, with pints (568ml) of draught beer from £4.00 (5,02€).
I can understand that since beer is so cheap in germany but still youre declaming a "Drink responsible" police and thus we would choice none alcoholic beverages should be promoted, not robbed. From what I can recal I got 0.5 litres off coke in the shop for 0.5 euro (or something like it) but in the bar I had to pay 3 euro for 0.2 litres, and 5 euro for 1 pint. I can undertand that the bar would like to earn a few cent as well but something like 1.5 euro for the 0.2 litres and 3 euro for the pint would have been much better. Now I can imagine a whole lot off people baught theyre drinks in the shop and drink it in rooms instead of bars, and thats not promoting filled con areas, are it? ???
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Cheetah

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #83 on: 07.09.2012, 16:07:55 »

Okay, I had a very long and elaborate answer typed out, but then I accitendtly hit the "back" button on the mouse and all was gone. Whoever at Logitech thought that it was a great idea to put a "back" button right next to the left mouse button deserves to be shot.  So I'm answering telegraph style now, I don't feel like wiriting it all out again.

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Schedule - Sheduling at the con was extremely poorly done, there were basically two blocks of all the panels so rather then being able to attend a few, it was a case of one or nothing. Just because I fursuit doesn't mean I won't want to go to panels about other things. It would have been so much better if they had been placed to run two or three events and then a next set of things spread out better.

What you're not taking into account is the room capacity. We need to thin the crowd out by running more events in parallel, otherwise rooms will overcrowd more than they already do.
Funny thing is that later in your posting you apply exactly the opposite reasoning to the restaurants:

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Forcing things into a narrow band creates an overload on the food outlets both in and around the convention leading to delays in serving.

Same thing with the conference rooms. Having events run in 3 rooms rather than 6 at the same time creates the same kind of overload. The dinner break is not an actual "dinner break" though. It's a much needed time buffer to get everything prepared for the evening prime-time programming. We couldn't do it without that buffer. There is a LOT going on behind the scenes during that time. So I'm sorry for the restaurants actually having to work to get their money's worth :)

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In addition, the fursuit games preliminaries were scheduled at the same time as the fursuit photoshoot.

There is simply no other timeslot that would work. We have so many fursuit-related events it's impossible to not have any of them overlap.

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Also to put the fursuit games at 22:30 was pointless, I really wanted to go in for them, but that was too late really.


Where else would you have put it, with the entire afternoon being taken by the fursuit parade and concert setup going on at the same time?

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In the end it became around 00:00 for a start because of the late start of the concert. So some potential audience would have either gone to the bar or bed and that would have not really been any fun to try and entertain people.

Does it occur to you that sometimes shit juts happens? In this case, dance contest overran 35 minutes because of technical failures, and then during concert rehearsals, a member of the camera crew slipped and fell off his platform, needing attention by our paramedics. I hope you do not mind that we put the well-being of our volunteers above our scheduling.

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To have nothing on during the pawpets show was a bit disappointing too, not everyone wants to see puppets and such so something as an alternative would have really been nice to see.

I wouldn't mind. Find my volunteers who want to run stuff competing with the pawpetshow, and I'll give them timeslots. In the last 10 years, there weren't many. Maybe YOU want to run an event?

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Also, there was no closing ceremony or feedback session? I would have thought that they would have been rather good things to see. Although I am told there was somthing said at the end of pawpets, which connects to my previous point.

No closing ceremony: Not possible because no time on saturday, and no more room on sunday. Just not worth it.

No feedback session: Because the internet exists. We get enough feedback as it is without binding staffers on sunday, when everybody is 100% busy breaking down and cleaning up.

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Stairs: After the delayed group photo I went to take the stairs to my room as there was many suiters that would need to use the lifts more then I did. I went up the right hand staircase that was signed for all floors only to find that all the accommodation doors were locked. Coming back down I told a passing staff/security member who said they were only for the C level.

That was a printing error, but it was corrected during the first day. It was announced correctly at opening ceremonies, and the signs were corrected as soon as we became aware of the error. Sorry for that.

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Before finding him though I naturally went to conops to tell them it was locked, only to find conops left unstaffed. With the amount of staff EF has I found this very surprising.

Con ops is still looking for volunteers to man their office. Would you be up for it? All it takes is missing 100% of the convention, not getting any sleep, working hard all day, and putting up with criticisms like this. But as I can see you are very motivated to improve the situation, I am looking forward to receiving your application for next year's convention!

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Housekeeping: I don't know what happened with them, but the room servicing seemed to be getting later and later and they kept missing items needing to be done. We had our cups cleared away and not replaced on one day, the bin not emptied and beds not done until gone 18:00. For a four star hotel this was rather a surprising lapse in quality of service.

I know what happened with them. Many furries left their rooms in a state of complete mess - crates of beer standing around, dirty clothes strewn all over the floor, giant inflatables taking up all the space, piles of trash on the floor. It took housekeeping on average three times to service a room than it does with normal guests.  Some attendees had to pay extra cleaning fees up to €600 for the removal of bodily fluids and drink spills.

If people do that, naturally, service quality as a whole suffers.

Although, sometimes, leaving a little tip and a small thank you note could make all the difference for the shit housekeeping (quite literally) has to put up with. Be nice to them, and they will be nice to you.

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Sponsors: I don't really think as a sponsor I got value for money.

No you didn't. Because that's not the point of sponsor memberships.

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Overall the I would say the social experience was excellent, but the con experience was mediocre after all the hype and build up I'd heard about EF before.

I'm sorry you had unrealistic expectations, but that's nothing we could have done anything about.
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Cheetah

Cheetah

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #84 on: 07.09.2012, 16:14:07 »

I can understand that since beer is so cheap in germany but still youre declaming a "Drink responsible" police and thus we would choice none alcoholic beverages should be promoted, not robbed. From what I can recal I got 0.5 litres off coke in the shop for 0.5 euro (or something like it) but in the bar I had to pay 3 euro for 0.2 litres, and 5 euro for 1 pint. I can undertand that the bar would like to earn a few cent as well but something like 1.5 euro for the 0.2 litres and 3 euro for the pint would have been much better. Now I can imagine a whole lot off people baught theyre drinks in the shop and drink it in rooms instead of bars, and thats not promoting filled con areas, are it? ???

The thing is ... we don't make the drink prices. The hotel does. So, yes, you are right about this conflict of interests. But as long as the bar is at 100% capacity, the hotel has no incentive to lower the prices, and country-wide pricing standards of the maritim group doesn't make it any easier to them to do us any favours in that regard. We've been gnawing on the edges of their price scheme for a while, with the 2.50 Beer in the snack point in the lobby, the cocktail special for 7.50 and the longdrink special for 5, but since the drinks and the food are the REAL profit factors for the hotel, you can only negotiate this in very small steps. So yeah, I do see your point, but it's not easily resolved.
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Cheetah

Cheetah

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #85 on: 07.09.2012, 16:15:25 »

We can't offer seats for sponsors and supersponsoers cause we would have to reserve 300 seats for every event or let in 300 people first.

... which, by the way, we actually do :)
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Cheetah

Cheetah

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #86 on: 07.09.2012, 16:20:36 »

Why can the art show not provide space? That room was more then large enough to facilitate two desks for items to be stores upon.

Seriously, do you think we're all idiots?

Yes, the room was large enough to facilityte two desks. You're right.

But then, that's not what it takes to run a bag drop for 1300 people.

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Cheetah

Sithy

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #87 on: 07.09.2012, 16:21:01 »

Regarding leaving a tip for the cleaners, will they take it if we leave a note specifically stating it's for them? We weren't sure since rules on taking stuff from rooms are so strict (we wanted to leave them stroopwafels as well but apparantly they're not allowed to take them even if we leave a note?)
What helps, btw, is to tidy your room a little each morning. We'd make sure the floor was empty, no items strewn around, nothing in the way. This way, the cleaners can do their job properly and no one gets annoyed :) Didn't take us a lot of time either and got us nice clean beds, towels and floor every day!
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Cairyn

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #88 on: 07.09.2012, 16:28:52 »

Regarding leaving a tip for the cleaners, will they take it if we leave a note specifically stating it's for them? We weren't sure since rules on taking stuff from rooms are so strict (we wanted to leave them stroopwafels as well but apparantly they're not allowed to take them even if we leave a note?)

They will take a tip if it's on the pillow. If it's on the table or nightdesk, they will not recognize it as a tip (and are not allowed to take it). Food, even if it's stroopwafels, is probably not seen as an appropriate tip.
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Sithy

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Re: EF18 Feedback
« Reply #89 on: 07.09.2012, 16:31:33 »

I meant to include them with the tip xD Not on their own of course. Thanks for the info, I'll do it like that next year :)
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