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Author Topic: Women at Furry Conventions  (Read 29240 times)

Raider

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #15 on: 29.11.2013, 08:07:32 »

IF you get stalked by a guy, find another woman, talk to her, and ask her for help. Alternatively, you have friends.

With so many colorspecies walking around, writing down the name might prevent a mixup and the wrong person being accused.

I suggest getting the badge number, too. There are some pretty similar names out there.
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yagfox

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #16 on: 29.11.2013, 14:01:54 »

Are there any security statistics for numbers of past reported incidents available?
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Cheetah

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #17 on: 29.11.2013, 14:25:09 »

That's confidential information, but I can say that the number is very, very, very low. In the context of this discussion I might add though, that while all the "you should report unwanted attention to security" advice is well meant, when there is the need to call security the damage has already been done. Depending on your self-confidence, one bad apple is all it may need to seriously ruin your day - or even the con.

What worries me as the chairman is not only the actual situation, but also the psychology - part of the reason why furry cons are unpopular with women also seem to be a self-fulfilling cognitive bias. If you come expecting to be treated in a special way, you can easily end up actually waiting for it, and things that would not have registered with you under normal conditions become suddenly a lot more significant - just because of the way you've expecting them to happen.

Judging from my own experience and what security reports to me at the con, and also the reactions here in the forum, I think EF is a very safe place, regardless of sex, gender or orientation. So I don't think there is much we can do to improve the experience in that regard. However how do we get rid of that psychological effect that makes women FEEL insecure without trying to force our demographics?
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EchoesAbove

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #18 on: 04.12.2013, 11:00:38 »

*late reply*
I've only had a stalker at a smaller con (not EF), but brought it up here because it propably happened at EF too.
Also, if someone's following you, how on earth are you supposed to get the name and badge number? Tbh, I'd have better things to do then walk up to him and look at that person's badge.

What I DID have is meeting someone, who I talked to once during the EF. I returned home to a Skype add... and a lot of pictures of my butt while in Suit. I too have been asked if it's possible to do a "private shooting" of said butt at the next EF. Was easily solved by a NO though.
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Jake R

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #19 on: 04.12.2013, 12:57:49 »

And for the love of all that is holy, learn to pick up signs of when to get the hell out of there, and act on them.
That's very easy to say. I'm not convinced it's that easy to act on, though.

I agree with you there, and I'll readily admit I'm far from great at it myself. But I'm convinced I'm better at it now than I was some years ago, and my aim is to be better at it still in a few years.

All I ask from people is for them to look at themselves, and try to make sure they aren't creeping people out. Reading about negative experiences of women (both furry and non-furry), especially online and at conventions, is indeed a great start. Tip: if you can't see the problem, you're probably a part of it.
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yagfox

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #20 on: 04.12.2013, 14:11:46 »

However how do we get rid of that psychological effect that makes women FEEL insecure without trying to force our demographics?

I suspect reiterating the very small number of reported cases would help. Otherwise this thread does come across as quite frightening, as it is full of past bad experiences, and doesn't really paint a true picture of what you're likely to encounter.
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Jumpy

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #21 on: 04.12.2013, 18:53:42 »

if someone's following you, how on earth are you supposed to get the name and badge number?

Just point them out to a member of security instead.

If you don't feel comfortable approaching a stalker yourself, security will be happy to ask them to leave you alone for you.

Just please don't expect security to take further action the first time if all the person did was follow you at a distance. You see, If you have not approached this person yourself before and asked them to leave you alone, this is the first direct warning they get.

If the behaviour persists, talk to security again.

Quote
What I DID have is meeting someone, who I talked to once during the EF. I returned home to a Skype add... and a lot of pictures of my butt while in Suit. I too have been asked if it's possible to do a "private shooting" of said butt at the next EF. Was easily solved by a NO though.

That is the best solution. So many awkward situations could be prevented if everyone just mustered the courage to say a clear "NO".
« Last Edit: 04.12.2013, 19:07:00 by Jumpy »
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Suicune

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #22 on: 05.12.2013, 14:24:29 »

What I DID have is meeting someone, who I talked to once during the EF. I returned home to a Skype add... and a lot of pictures of my butt while in Suit. I too have been asked if it's possible to do a "private shooting" of said butt at the next EF. Was easily solved by a NO though.

I know how that feels like. I know 2 people who creeped me online after a convention. One them after EF.
And I think I would give that person a hurting facepaw on the next convention if he/she would make pictures of my butt without asking me
Everyone can make photos of me, even without asking. But only "normal" photos, not of certain areas -.-

I think thats a main reason why girls don't want to visit Furcons, there are some guys who only want pictures like that or other creepy things.

Ambidexter

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #23 on: 22.01.2014, 03:26:47 »

Well, I'm a girl, and I do get unwanted attention, both IRL and on the Internet. Sometimes I even do not specify my gender when registering at a forum, and they mistake me for a male (mainly because of my «brutal» nickname), and I'm totally OK with that. Seriously, when a guy thinks I'm male, we can talk normally, but as soon as he finds out I'm a girl, he starts perceiving me as a female, not as a person. That's the problem. So my advice would be as follows: when approaching a girl, forget that she's a girl. «What a cute avatar, did you draw it by yourself?» is an appropriate way to start a conversation. «Hey, you look cute» / «Your eyes are amazing» is NOT. You wouldn't tell that to a guy, would you? ~_^

Before going to your first furry con, were you concerned about unwanted attention? Has this actually held you back? How were your actual experiences at furry conventions? Did you get a lot of creeps following you - more than your male friends? Any stories to tell?
The largest con I've been to is Rusfurrence (200~300 participants, of which ~90% are guys). I went there with my boyfriend, but we were interested in unlike activities, so we often ended up in different locations of the hotel, and it looked as if I was single. From time to time, random guys made attempts to start a conversation with me, and all of them were, like, «Oh, wow, a girl! What brought you here?» My reply was always the same: «My boyfriend invited me». On hearing that, some disengaged immediately, others started an interrogation: «Who's your b/f? Do I know him? Why isn't he around?» One of them seemed to disbelieve every word of mine, he even tried to stand me a drink >_< So my next piece of advice is: give her the benefit of the doubt. After all, if you suspect that she is not being honest to you, why would you want to deal with such a liar?
Anyways, I can't say that any of these cases were troublesome. I've experienced more impudent harassment at my place of work (and on the Internet, of course, but that doesn't count). My final advice might sound controversial, but I'll still declare: no means no. Sure, the girl might be flirting, and her «no» might actually mean «maybe», as that joke about female logic asserts, but still — don't be too pushy. What you mistake for minauderie, might be her natural voice. (This is my case BTW: my voice is somewhat squeaky and meowing, which makes me sound exalted and rapt, even if I'm not.)

I could talk on this subject for long, but here in Moscow it's 6 AM already, so I'm wrapping up for now =) Kudos to everyone who plowed through this post, any objections and amendments would be appreciated =)
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Honey

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #24 on: 22.01.2014, 22:13:10 »

I strongly disagree with that article. I find it rather stupid to be honest. So men should not approach women at cons (unless they are already friends) because then they will come off as creeps? Ah come on get real. Why should a woman, who just happens to be part of the furry fandom, be any different than from a woman who does not share this interest?

I had my share of creeps both inside and outside the fandom. Basically just use your brain a bit when you interact with (ANY) kind of person and you should be good. Just walking straight up to a woman and grab her boobs or crotch (that happened to me on several occasions both inside and outside the fandom) and then expect her to just want to jump into bed with you is what the majority would consider a very impolite and bad move.

If you just talk to us like you would talk to any other person you should be fine in most cases. In general, if the girl is not interested she will tell you and then you respect that choice, but that does not mean you are not allowed to talk to her ever again. My advice? Act natural, talk to us like you would talk to any person and just avoid randomly groping others private places without permission.
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Dragony

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #25 on: 23.01.2014, 13:29:56 »

I'm generally a little bit disgusted about parts of mankind who treating women as a property...
Okay, I'm a little bit different from other women, I'm a little bit stronger and have my (and sometimes straight) ways, to take my point. And in the past, it was very very rare, that someone harassed me. But it already happened. To me, too. Years ago on an other convention. And I really hated it.

Guys, take a look at us: We are always kind, if you are kind, too. But please: Don't scare us. The world is hard enough for us. If you don't know about, and if you don't believe us, take a look to http://everydaysexism.com/ and recap about your personal behavior.
Stay calm, have a good time, do not get any hopes, make friends with the person you like, but don't tell her about fetishes at the fist time. Do not overstate yourself, be normal, make your business as usual. And don't make any drama if it's not working, how you expected.

And the main thing: A "No!" from a woman means always a "No!". And nothing else. There are no spaces for interpretation and a "No!" is never a signal of shyness. A "No!" is what it is: A cancellation of your request and a straight border, you should never cross.

And Sex is not the answer of everything. Many woman are not amused, when they were treated like an object, that you can use only for sex. And it makes me sick and sad, that I read about someone (a woman) who was looking for a room-mate for EF, and everything she gets was a request for sex...  

Think about...

And to all, who had problems about harassments at the con: Talk to me, please, and we find a solution. At the University, I'm working as an Equality Officer in the department of Mechanical Engineering since a couple of years and had some skills.
« Last Edit: 23.01.2014, 13:35:50 by Dragony »
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Jorinda

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #26 on: 23.01.2014, 15:21:59 »

I'm generally a little bit disgusted about parts of mankind who treating women as a property...
True, but I'd like to add: Same applies for women's behavious towards men. Some ladies can be creeps, too.

Quote
And the main thing: A "No!" from a woman means always a "No!".
No means no, no matter who says it.

Actually, I'd prefer not to get any "special treatment" as a girl. You do not need to open doors for me, buy me drinks or try to flirt with me. Just try to see me as a person ;). If you want to get to know me, just say Hi and start a conversation. Don't try to do something different just because I'm a woman. Just act... normal.
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Dragony

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #27 on: 23.01.2014, 16:46:19 »

I'm generally a little bit disgusted about parts of mankind who treating women as a property...
True, but I'd like to add: Same applies for women's behavious towards men. Some ladies can be creeps, too.

Quote
And the main thing: A "No!" from a woman means always a "No!".
No means no, no matter who says it.

Actually, I'd prefer not to get any "special treatment" as a girl. You do not need to open doors for me, buy me drinks or try to flirt with me. Just try to see me as a person ;). If you want to get to know me, just say Hi and start a conversation. Don't try to do something different just because I'm a woman. Just act... normal.


Thanks for editing. You wrote it better than I have!
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Ambidexter

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #28 on: 23.01.2014, 22:59:03 »

And it makes me sick and sad, that I read about someone (a woman) who was looking for a room-mate for EF, and everything she gets was a request for sex...
*Sigh* Sad but true. I've been also pondering on how a (single) girl can find a decent roommate. The only idea that comes to my mind is to specify plainly: «Straight girl, looking for a female roommate» — but won't that be sort of… sexist? ^^*

Actually, I'd prefer not to get any "special treatment" as a girl. You do not need to open doors for me, buy me drinks or try to flirt with me. Just try to see me as a person ;)
My point exactly ^^

I've stumbled upon a wise discourse at a Russian website similar to notalwaysright.com, it's about gender stereotypes.
Source: http://zadolba.li/story/8448
An attempt of translation…
// Note: «самец» and «самка» in Russian refer primarily to «male animal» and «female animal», respectively. «Личность» can be translated as «person», «personality» or «individual».
Quote
(…)
A male must do military service.
A female must procreate children.
A person must pursue their goals.

A female must expect others to pay.
A male must pay.
A person must comprehend financial capacities and preferences of other people.

A female must obey.
A male must determine.
A person must be able to interact with other persons.
(…)
A female must be dumb and sexy.
A male must be strong and hairy.
A person must be whatever they prefer.

A female must chit-chat.
A male must listen.
A person must be able to socialize.
(…)
Females like flowers.
Males like beer.
Persons like what they like (and speak up about it).

Females pride themselves upon being females.
Males pride themselves upon being males.
Persons remain persons and do not think in stereotypes.

Be a Person.
I've picked the most critical parts, but I can translate the rest, if anyone's interested.
« Last Edit: 23.01.2014, 23:00:43 by Ambidexter »
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Rush_Lion

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #29 on: 24.01.2014, 11:38:14 »

It's sad that some women seem to think inappropriate behavior only happens to women and is always done by men. I've been to 8 major furry cons (and many many smaller furry events ) so far and I can not count the number of times i've been groped, squeezed or hugged by people I didn't know, or got sexual remarks or invitations from people I'm not particularly interested in. And YES some of them have been women! And i'm not alone in this. But men tend not to alert security when someone squeezes their butt (or worse).

I've been in the furry fandom since the late 90's, and it's always been a close-knit, touchy-feely community. And that's great! So sometimes someone doesn't know where to draw the line. Big deal. You tell 'em no and move on.
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