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Eurofurence 25 "Fractures in Time" - Estrel Hotel Berlin, August 14-18, 2019Follow eurofurence on Twitter

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Author Topic: EF23 Feedback (2017)  (Read 8581 times)

Khirdras

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #15 on: 23.08.2017, 22:59:14 »

I have missed badly the mini schedule event plan for the trouser pocket, like the last years.
By the way, all my friends missed it as well.

They were on the table next to the registration desk. You must have not seen them :)

Thank you - i really have not seen them. But have not looked after them too. All the Years before they where IN the Conbook. No Information about that they were now seperate.
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Fafnir Kristensen

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #16 on: 23.08.2017, 23:23:28 »

pro:

Globally a very enjoyable convention,

I would like to thanks very kindly the several hundred of people who can make everything happen so that the rest of the attendees can enjoy their time for almost one whole week,
This is certainly no small achievement and Im really grateful for this.

Beside some small laden times and a few very specifics cases, everything went nicely, be it events, organization or services, and this is great.

The conop or secop staff I talked to were all nice and efficient as much as possible, thank you very much.

Very fast registration,
I noticed you had a lot of people doing it at the same time.

The pocket travel guide,
I dont know if many people noticed that, but I found that to be a very nice, informative and useful leaflet.

Generally good information,
I certainly appreciated the notifications through the phone app.

The Camp Fire,
I love that place, big thank you again to the staff taking care of the fire.

The Pawpets Show,
amazing Ortha of course, wonderful and lively not-dragon beast ;)
Special kuddo for the person (Im bad with name sorry) who was carrying her on his back during the show and even after!
Also impressive special effect, between the "slow time" during telepathic events and the airplane dog(less)fight. You did surprise me with these scene where you used the front of the performance scene for side to side pass-by, either for the planes or for Ortha, nice use of blacklight lighting!
The show was very very much enjoyable (though not for the sheep ;) ).
Be careful though, I understand the feeling of trying more and more impressive tricks and stunts for your show, but it's also part of cause of the meltdown at EF20, though I guess you dont really need me to recall you that.
As Cheetah said it himself, the show had its handful of small technical problems, but these kind of things dont bother me, as they are likely to happen during a live show, especially of such extent. So many people dont understand a large scale pawpet show is more complicated to do that a more common play with real actors, ah well.
Big applause for all the people who make this happens, between the pawpetters, voices, stage crew, stage artistes, sound and light technician, video artists, music artists, im sure im forgetting some other, sorry about that, great teamwork, simply.


con:

Artshow tails segregation rule:
This is totally unacceptable. I agree I may not have been exceedingly polite about it, but this completely rubbed me the wrong way.
I understand and agree with the idea of preventing damages to fragile sculptures, but I disagree with the way it is implemented.
This is a furry community where tails are common and asking people to remove their tails before entering is both quite undignified and highly bothersome.
Of course banning tails is the easiest way to prevent potentials damage and thats most probably why that solution was chosen,
but I think there are other ways to offer the same protection level without highly inconveniencing visitors, while still staying as simple as possible, meaning easy to implement and not cause the artshow staff an over increase of work.
That said, I would like to thanks Cairyn for telling me on Saturday at the art pickup that it was recognized the tail ban may not have been the most acceptable solution and that it may be improved next year, I appreciated you told me so and I will certainly appreciate any alternatives.
On my side I will try to provide (and test beforehand) some ideas, as I certainly doesnt want to be just the guy who just spit and rant but does nothing, the artshow is after all the biggest highlight of the con for me.
Again I am very thankful for all the work done to setup the art show and make the whole bidding and auction possible year after year.

Airflow in the staircase to Club Stage ECC Room 1:
That staircase with the glass walls became very quickly very hot and unpleasant for all the people waiting before all the events in that room.
For me first on Friday for the Paws on Fire then Saturday for the charity concert.
I appreciate secop listened to me on Saturday (though I had to insist a little bit) about the possibility of opening the transoms windows near the ceiling and opening the outside door at the bottom. After a kind staff found how to open the windows and the door, the temperature became very quickly much more viable.
I also noticed the pieces of clothes near the doors, I guess thats where it flooded during the heavy rain so I can understand the door and windows may not be left open at all time.

General identity/badge check at the artist lounge:
What, why?
My guess is you may have been seeking for some unregistered people which may have "infiltrated" the convention and squatting the lounge, but quite some of my artists friends have been stressed by that event, maybe there is a less stressful way to do that without seeing some impressive and intimidating security staffs doing a general id check?


some general comments:

Dealers den is getting too crowded and the sellers close to the windows are simply dying all day.
I know the rooms allocation is a headache, but the dealers den area has not increased at all in 4 years,
even with the addition of the rotonda/artist alley, which helped a little bit, but even that is reaching its limit.

The events grid is becoming increasingly stuffed.
Of course this is to cover all the different interests of the attendees, but as a result the possibilities of overlap and domino effect are increasing.
Since I dont see any interest group agreeing about getting "their" event suppressed, I only see having the day "last longer" as in pushing back the dances 30min~1h later, but guess this may have already been considered/discussed ?


final note:

thank you all for all the work, between the convention itself and all my friends, I didnt see time pass and that usually a sign of much enjoyment.
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Token

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #17 on: 24.08.2017, 00:50:58 »

Concerning the ArtShow entrance rules:

I take full responsibility for messing this up!

I am responsible for managing security at the ArtShow and also briefing new recruits on how to handle things. And I did not communicate correctly with the team on how to handle tails and similar things. This has caused the 'no tail at all'-rule to be suddenly implemented somewhere during thursday. It was decided to not wobble the rules back and forth and keep it up, especially since the room got a lot more crowded towards the closing.

Thus, I fully understand the frustration it caused! Let a two-tailed rat tell you that we also love tails and are sorry for making some people take it off! We strive for a very high quality in the Art Show, to provide artists an exclusive and quality space to show their art without the danger of it being broken (which had sadly happened more than once before).
It was an inconvenience, especially with the locker service somewhat further away.
Again, my apologies!

We will try to clear things up with the ArtShow directors and improve on this next year. Hopefully you still had the chance to enjoy the wonderful art and eventually even bin on something.

Best wishes,
Token
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BigBlueFox

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #18 on: 24.08.2017, 02:10:09 »

As the person respondible for EF Prime, please allow me to adress a few of the comments made:

"Heavy Rotation": EF Prime originally is supposed to air from Wednesday, 12:00 to Sunday, 12:00. This is when we have booked access to the hotel distribution system, and when the actual programming is up. Due to the generousity of the hotel and their tech crews, it can stay on for much longer than that, and it starts much earlier also, mostly during setup of stage. Now, I'm just never able to collect enough unique content for the core hours, and with every extra hour we're broadcasting, it gets more obvious that there is a heavy rotation. I will see what I can do about that in the future, I already started re-broadcasting past years shows to avoid too many repeats.

"No EF Prime in lobby": This will be back next year. This year, the new and refurbished lobby just opened up a few days before we arrived, some of you might have noticed the one or other painter still doing their job here and there. The hotel wanted to have the lobby presentable in the state it was supposed to be, so not a single change was allowed, that includes the TVs that stayed tuned into the channels they were supposed to show. The newness of the lobby also was responsible for a complete lack of decoration in it, especially since certain things couldn't be done because a few official prodecures had not been finished that are required by law.

We are fully confident that all these things are going to be back next year. For now, let's just be happy that the hotel worked so hard on getting the lobby done so we could enjoy all of the space. :)

A few glitches happened here and there, and we had quite a lot of new team members in order to distribute work even more to avoid these in the future. However, none of us is ever perfect, but I can promise you we're trying our best to keep improving!
« Last Edit: 24.08.2017, 02:15:10 by BigBlueFox »
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MOW

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #19 on: 24.08.2017, 04:37:20 »

Thank you - i really have not seen them. But have not looked after them too. All the Years before they where IN the Conbook. No Information about that they were now seperate.

Not all of the stuff supposed to go in the conbook was there from the start on Tuesday, so in the beginning we didn't have enough pre-stuffed conbooks. If you checked in rather early on Tuesday, that might be why.
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Suicune

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #20 on: 24.08.2017, 05:40:55 »

I actually got nothing major to complain regarding organisation, this was one of the best EFs organisationwise and I had a lot of fun. :)
I know that the Estrel got things done just in time and they still have to adjust decoration, light, etc.

+ Usage of available convention space while Estrel was being busy with renovating their Lobby etc. The "Lego Cube Corner" with Estrels old sofas in the Atrium was used a lot. Also the additional sofas etc. in the open stage area added a lot of comfortable places to hang around.
+ Locker Service. I didn't use it, but I'm sure it was useful to some.
+ The PawPet Show was gorgeous! Sweet soundtrack! I really liked the characters and especially love Ortha. Such a lovely Dragon and such cute noises you gave her. <3 Made my eyes watery all the time. ^_^ (Excuse my caps on EF Prime Twitter after the PPS :D)
Also nice that you used UV light again and the UV light reflecting paint background from "End Tide".
+ EF Prime almost had no hiccups. My friggin great product of a Philips TV had more.
+ First Day hadn't enough Daily EF Newspapers. This was solved on the next day.


o Replacing the reg corner into a lockable room for safety and using the old place for seating may have been a good idea, but the queue blocked almost the whole Atrium and the Lobby entrance to it which already is a tight space. This needs more organisation next time.
o Good that the Rotunda and everything behind it was attendee only.
But there was no one actually enforing that rule. Also the banner - even if it's huge - was kinda easy to oversee and only in english. Maybe a sign/poster right, middle and left would be better if Estrel allows it.
o Not sure who decided to move the smokers away from the main entrance, if hotel alone or if ConOps plead them to do so and they said "OK", but it was about time! It's great that it finally happenend. The smell always flew into the Lobby which was really dusgusting and unhealthy for the Estrel employees anyway.
But it was just moving the problem from one entrance to another. After moving them to the Atrium the smell flew into the Atrium >_>" And simply closing the door there isn't a good thing to do in summer, so it remained open. Is the smoker lounge so tiny that people don't want to/can't use it?
o There were delays as usual, but delays apparently didn't get delays, so were well calculated. Information about that came early enough which is also nice.
o Uhm.. why exactly do like 100 people queue up really early before Closing & PPS, take a place in the front rows, if they leave right after closing? ô_ô Like 1/3 of the front row went empty right after closing. Sure, you see everything etc., but is it really neccessary to take the best places if you only stay for 10 Minutes?

- People, seriously... As far as I saw that we never really used the frigging queue system during breakfast for the past 3 years, so why did you start doing it now? Just because we are in germany and people here tend to use it even just to get a single piece of bread for no reason whatsoever, doesn't mean you have to do that as well every time. It pretty much hold up everyone and made everything taking longer than neccessary.
Why queueing up when the person in front of me only wants a piece of cheese which ist at the beginning of the food thingy whil I want a sausage which is at the other end? It's ridiculous.
- Don't fucking awoo in rooms with great echo, please, kthx. -_-"
- I was really missing the Oasis. Walking all the way to the lounge and on the way down the stairs is a little bit annoying.
- The white ugly tables in the Atrium weren't really useful for anything but blocking space that would have been needed. I hardly saw anyone using them throughout the day.
- The painting of the planes in the PPS was too plain. I missed details like a H&F company logo or simply seams which spearate diffent plane parts. Would have given then a better look.
- If you were sitting in the first 2-3 rows looking at the screen was really uncomfortable. A solution for this would really be appreciated if possible.

Estrel side of things:
The bigger available space we had in the Lobby was nice. But honestly, regarding style, I liked the old one with its warm colors more. I dislike that super modern style. I hope they put up some decoration to make it feel warmer and cosier. Also dimm the lights when it's dark, it was way too bright, this felt really odd. Guess they may put up light spending decoration before they do that.
This italien architect who was in charge of the style didn't really put usability in foreground. These round breakfast tables are hardly enough for 2 people. And the chairs are not the most comfortable ones. I hope he isn't mad that we declared his paw-tables - which identify as chairs - to be tables. They aren't comfortable.
And yeah, the heat in the Lobby & Atrium until friday was unbearable. Well, air was equal inside & outside on friday until this lovely thunderstorm came. (And you still got wet below the roof because it's leaking.) The air was great on Saturday where the temps fell by like 10°C and they probably had the windows open all night.
And yeah, as mentioned at the beginning on the thread, maintaining ACs and other things should be done. The ACs filter needed to be openend/removed in ECC room 5 to make them work. Also all windows we tried to open before were malfunctioning and needed multiple tries to be able to be opened.
I keep wondering why no guest or housekeeper before I arrived reported the dripping toilet connection or hardly working tv remote. Or not working wifi in my wing corner.
The pyjama party housekeeper were nice as always and adjusted to the guests habits after 2-3 days. ^^

The biggest disappointment during EF was my body acting up for apparently no reason and making me feel tired most time of the con. I'm sad that I couldn't really attend the dances on Thu&Fri. Saturday was the only day I felt good. :|

Special thanks to the braindead Nazis and left winged naked monkeys who made our travel home taking 1hr or 1 1/2hrs longer and stressfull. Good job yo... -_-"

Alpha_Ki

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #21 on: 24.08.2017, 08:47:38 »

....

Dealers den is getting too crowded and the sellers close to the windows are simply dying all day.
I know the rooms allocation is a headache, but the dealers den area has not increased at all in 4 years,
even with the addition of the rotonda/artist alley, which helped a little bit, but even that is reaching its limit.

...

Hello Fafnir, I fully agree with you. We need a larger room for all the dealers and the attendees but I don't know where we shall take that at the moment. We could rent the new extra halls with ECC2 but that would easily double the price for each attendee. Plus these halls have no daylight - ever tried to lock an artist away? No good idea... really no good idea. You could also cuddle with a blind hungry tiger instead. ;D
Most of the artist and dealer in the Den prefer overheating instead of 24/7 artificial light.

I really really hope that with the new part of the Hotel, more rooms and more function space I finally get a solution to my main problem. The room is not made for so many people - that's why the air conditioning isn't the best. The only step we can do for next year: Less artists and dealer in the Den. But honestly that can't be the solution to go.
If you have a solution I haven't thought about - let me hear. :)
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Fafnir Kristensen

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #22 on: 24.08.2017, 10:11:17 »

Hello Fafnir, I fully agree with you. We need a larger room for all the dealers and the attendees but I don't know where we shall take that at the moment. We could rent the new extra halls with ECC2 but that would easily double the price for each attendee. Plus these halls have no daylight - ever tried to lock an artist away? No good idea... really no good idea. You could also cuddle with a blind hungry tiger instead. ;D
Most of the artist and dealer in the Den prefer overheating instead of 24/7 artificial light.

I really really hope that with the new part of the Hotel, more rooms and more function space I finally get a solution to my main problem. The room is not made for so many people - that's why the air conditioning isn't the best. The only step we can do for next year: Less artists and dealer in the Den. But honestly that can't be the solution to go.
If you have a solution I haven't thought about - let me hear. :)

well, how much more would it cost to get a extra building room?

there are quite some pro and con about a closed space:
con: no sunlight, cost much more
pro: more space for dealers and for customer, more air volume and maybe adapted air conditioning, also with more space it may allow more people inside at the same time and less people queing at the entry

a lot of furs are interested in the dealers den, just seeing the quantity of people doing the queue every year, Im pretty sure an increase of price may (or course that depend of the exact amount) be accepted by most attendees.

as for closed space, as far as I know, the artist lounge has no sun light either and they spend quite some time there without that I noticed anything, but then im not a psychologue so I may simply not have noticed it, also they are more often there in the evening and night when sun is down, so you can tell me it wouldnt make any difference anyway.

have you tried submitting a query form to the dealers attending the dealers den, asking them if they had to choose between sunlight and no sunlight but more space and breathable air, what would they prefer ?

the same could be done with the attendee, asking them if they would be ok with a increased cost if they can access a larger dealers den with less queue (that of course depend of the cost inveolved)

do you have an estimate of the cost of renting a new larger building room ?

« Last Edit: 24.08.2017, 10:13:06 by Fafnir Kristensen »
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Fafnir Kristensen

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #23 on: 24.08.2017, 10:16:16 »

We will try to clear things up with the ArtShow directors and improve on this next year. Hopefully you still had the chance to enjoy the wonderful art and eventually even bin on something.

Best wishes,
Token

thank you, I will look forward to next year with more peace of mind.
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Alpha_Ki

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #24 on: 24.08.2017, 13:31:57 »

At the moment we could't anything else than renting the ECC2 and DOUBLE the price for EF for every attendee regardless if he or she is interested in the Dealers' Den or not. Plus some artist would not attend cause of the prize and that would mean we need less space.
Belive me, we roll around this problem and every possible solution sice the second year at the Estrel. As long we can't fill the second tower it has to stay as it is.
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Fafnir Kristensen

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #25 on: 24.08.2017, 15:36:02 »

At the moment we could't anything else than renting the ECC2 and DOUBLE the price for EF for every attendee regardless if he or she is interested in the Dealers' Den or not. Plus some artist would not attend cause of the prize and that would mean we need less space.
Belive me, we roll around this problem and every possible solution sice the second year at the Estrel. As long we can't fill the second tower it has to stay as it is.

well im not really surprised, as you said, if you had a better solution you would have done it already.

there is one thing im curious though, this years the convention covered more space than years before, with the addition of the ecc room 2 (which I dont remmeber we used before, as I dont remember having to wait in that glass staircase before), ecc foyer 4, where the artist lounge was relocated, and ecc something where conop was located.

where these spaces some kind of swap for the spaces previously located north of the charity booth ? (the glass ceiling room where the fursuit lounge was located in the past and the two rooms on the side previously used for conop and artist lounge) ?

Im kinda surprised the convention center management only propose you a all or nothing kind of deal to get more space, thats sort of sad from their part, but of course there are certainly plenty of details I do not know.
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meo

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #26 on: 24.08.2017, 17:06:49 »

Hello Fafnir, I fully agree with you. We need a larger room for all the dealers and the attendees but I don't know where we shall take that at the moment. We could rent the new extra halls with ECC2 but that would easily double the price for each attendee. Plus these halls have no daylight - ever tried to lock an artist away? No good idea... really no good idea. You could also cuddle with a blind hungry tiger instead. ;D
Most of the artist and dealer in the Den prefer overheating instead of 24/7 artificial light.

I really really hope that with the new part of the Hotel, more rooms and more function space I finally get a solution to my main problem. The room is not made for so many people - that's why the air conditioning isn't the best. The only step we can do for next year: Less artists and dealer in the Den. But honestly that can't be the solution to go.
If you have a solution I haven't thought about - let me hear. :)

Please tell us, how many of us are allowed to go in the den at the same time? At the rush hours it seems way to much. Sure, balancing between the queue and an overfilled den is a hard one, but i personally would prefer less in the den and have better air inside then overheating the room and causing a stampede where you can't simply watch the whole table of an artist before you got flooded away by "the wall of fluff" around you. The best time to buy this year was during the motorfurs event, since everyone went outside and the Den was nearly empty. You could with ease jump from table to table, look at all the stuff, chat with the artist and all in all have a better shopping experience.
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Fafnir Kristensen

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #27 on: 24.08.2017, 17:19:35 »

The best time to buy this year was during the motorfurs event

or any other big event globally.

the first 2 days are usually very crowded as everyone want it's part of the loot, it tends to calm down a bit on the third day.

that said, I never had any problem chatting with the artists, well, maybe I had to wait a few minutes at worse.
though some areas seem to be more crowded than others, especially with fursuiters ;)
« Last Edit: 24.08.2017, 17:22:20 by Fafnir Kristensen »
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Cairyn

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #28 on: 24.08.2017, 18:12:06 »

where these spaces some kind of swap for the spaces previously located north of the charity booth ?

In short, yes. Due to the renovations of the lobby, the breakfast area had been moved there (not knowing whether the renovations would be done in time), which forced the operations and events hosted there to move elsewhere. This year's room setup is an exception and will change again for 2018.
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Carenath

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #29 on: 24.08.2017, 19:08:20 »

"No EF Prime in lobby": This will be back next year. This year, the new and refurbished lobby just opened up a few days before we arrived, some of you might have noticed the one or other painter still doing their job here and there. The hotel wanted to have the lobby presentable in the state it was supposed to be, so not a single change was allowed, that includes the TVs that stayed tuned into the channels they were supposed to show.
That answers one of my questions very nicely, thank you.
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