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Author Topic: EF23 Feedback (2017)  (Read 7416 times)

Cairyn

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #45 on: 01.09.2017, 13:23:49 »

- many empty panels at the Art Show... I get how hard the organization must be, and I was really really really glad I god some space there, but I think there might be a way to fill the whole artshow up, maybe just remind people that there might be more room after all is set up, redistribute the unclaimed space after the regular setup is done? I'm not sure if there's an easy way that is not too labor intensive (guys, you've worked so much everytime I went to the Art Show .__.), but maybe just think about if there's another way

Actually, we've been trying to solve the issue since years. We are no airline though, so we are not at liberty just to overbook the whole thing, and should it not work out, drag some artists out of the plane Art Show kicking and screaming.

This year we have introduced the "upgradable table" concept to allow artists to prepare more art (to be put on tables) and to upgrade to a panel directly at the show when it becomes available. However, the tables could be upgraded even before the actual show so the freed panels were not needed. I would like to emphasize (once again) to artists that the upgradable table is a nice option and should be used especially if you didn't get all the panels you desired in the beginning! There is always a good chance at more space if you are patient and come prepared.

In addition one event for which a full panel was reserved was dropped at the con, leaving the panel for other uses, and one panel could be set up that was not originally planned for, so there was even more additional space available than usual. Ultimately, it is up to the artists to make the best use of it; I can only make the offer and plan for the current demand.

(Btw, Thursday morning is indeed already dedicated to setting up additional artists and redistributing space that was unclaimed, but funnily it was taken mostly by artists who were not pre-registered and came "on spec". Some people seem not to receive my Art Show roundmails with the current setup details, so we will change the notification system next year, hopefully reaching everybody with the newest information.)
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KeksTheFurry

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #46 on: 01.09.2017, 18:07:25 »

Let's start with the good stuff:

+ REALLY awesome "Paws on Fire" event with some huge benefits:
  > Constant good lightning, more focus on the dancers performance and not everything covered in smoke or dark light. I love it.
  > Really good concept with the "quick" version of jury feedback
  > Totally love the battle aspect of this event
  > No queue or waiting time
+ The second dance aka "Rave party"
  > I don't liked the music in the first moment but I loved how nerdy the whole concept was. So I fell in love with it. Sadly it was only at one day!
  > Good lighting (people gave their best to make it film-able for me. Huge thanks to them! It saved the con video in the end.
  > I just can't wait to see such a dance again, maybe even with other "special interest" music genres such as Nightcore or DnB
+ All the decoration
  > Such an improvement everywhere when it comes to huge banners, decoration elements and comfortable areas!
  > The whole hotel felt way more comfortable and the con-related areas more professional
+ Probably a lot more but I spend most of the time with video editing

o Enter the Arena had a strange Playtime-to-Queuetime ratio. Getting more dancers would be cool

o I still hope that the "3 blocks only" rule is either a joke, or there is a story behind it that I just haven't discovered yet. Did anyone got hurt by that? o.O

- The event plan was a little bit hard to understand for me and my friends.
  >Fursuit parade during the Dealers-Den opening?
  >Fursuit gameshow during Paws on Fire?
  >Fursuit group foto while Enter the Arena is still going on?
  >Probably more but I forgot.

- THE MAIN STAGE VOLUME
  > I HAD A TINITUS SEVERAL TIMES JUST FROM ATTENDING NORMAL EVENTS, NOT DANCES. YOU DON'T EXPECT TO BRING EAR PROTECTION THERE. AUDIO WAS CLIPPING SO HARD.
  > I WRITE THIS IN CAPS SO THAT YOU GET AN IDEA HOW IT FELT TO SIT THERE WHILE NO ONE IT PUTTING THE VOLUME LEVER DOWN
  > No but seriously, so many complains about it and nobody was able to fix it. It is a bit hard to understand how this was not possible to change.

-  It is forbidden to cover your real name on your badge with removeable duct-tape (that you can remove at any time when someone needs to "control" your badge!).
   Please, how does my real name help someone at an entrance to check if my badge is valid? Do they need to learn all the names of the attendees?
   There was a guy who looked at my name for like half a minute after I had to remove my tape from it. Seriously, why? If someone wants to report me,
   he can just take my reg number or my nickname!
   PLEASE find a solution so that people don't have to run around at cons, showing everyone their real name, if they don't want to.

- The Main Stage Lighting
  > I seriously loved the main stage each year, starting from EF18. This year, I came with more than double the light intense camera setup to film there than on previous years.
     This being said, I was deeply shocked to see that filming the dances was not possible at all. Not even at ISO12800 (I used ISO640 all the years before).
  > Enter the Arena had *a bit* too much smoke to see the dancers anymore at some point
  > I see that this years light-setup was extremely complicated installed and it looked good at the first point. It just wasn't good on the second view (in my opinion).
     Actually, I've talked with some of the light-controllers. There was barely anything he was able to do to make the stage brighter, despite mixing in normal "daylight" which
     is obviously not a good solution. So most of the time, everyone in the hall was just completely dark.
     They tried hard to improve it somehow and there was a small dance-stage in the end with some normal "daylight" that allowed to get at least some shots, but compared to the awesome light
     setup all the years before it was just not as good as it could've been and I had to film with very high ISO anyway. Also it wasn't colorful and interesting.
     So I went to the smaller neon dance and filmed there all the time - end of story.
    --> There is a "lite" solution to this, if you aim to make everyone happy (including the film-people) while you think that most people want to dance in the dark so that no one can see them:
       --> Just make a bright, filmable dance stage which is large enaugh for several people to dance on it
       --> Please don't block it with a DJ-House that may looks cool, but blocks the stage and interaction for fursuiters with the DJ
       --> Talk with someone who knows what colors and lighting looks good on a camera, e.g. me
          --> You will end up with a stage that is as cool as - or cooler than - on EF22
   --> Another good solution was to have those light-trees in the dance corners such as at EF21, so that you can simply film around them.
   --> Probably the best is to have less-focused light beams on the main stage at the dances like the years before. It is also less annoying to get them in the face then ;)
         However, it was totally cool to have those "lasers" at the rave dance as everything was smaller there and they only added light, but it wasn't the only light source.

- Dance Music overall
  > I write this mostly for my friends who came with me to eurofurence. Music choice surely isn't something that can please anyone, but we agreed on this point.
     Also I personally don't listen to the music which got played all the years before on dances, but it was "EF music" and it was good for me.
  > This year, it was hard to hear a single song that people know and can interact to. It was absolutely strange for us. All the years before, it was "the same" well-known music over and over
     again and it honestly was good because people knew the songs, they had a good time, it surely was mainstream stuff but it was easy to like it. You can't sing to a song if you don't know it.
     This year, it felt like someone said "Let's play only songs that we never played before". This is probably not true, but so was our feeling about it.
--> If all the DJs suddenly had an idea to improve the music choice by playing less-mainstream-stuff or whatever: We didn't enjoyed it.


It's really hard for me to give feedback this year, as I only attended some events and mostly of them only to film there. Which is why my feedback is - and should be - understood out of the view of someone who goes to the dance to film there, not to dance, which is definitely not the main intention behind a dance! I understand this, but I still want to give feedback. You don't need to listen to me to actually change something, but I wanted to write it down (as I really would love to see improvement at those points to make Eurofurence better)
« Last Edit: 03.09.2017, 21:25:16 by Keks »
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James The Dog

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #47 on: 01.09.2017, 22:55:18 »

But from other Conventions I also know of Dealer's Dens that are in the basement, no natural light either, but only 6-8 hours opened, maybe that's an option?

Yes, I've been ton Confuzzled, FWA and MFF and all 3 of them have the dealer's den in rooms with no windows- MFF and FWA having them in the basement too. While admittedly I don't know how it is for the dealers, at least there's more space.
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Reshi

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #48 on: 02.09.2017, 05:04:47 »

[...]
o Enter the Arena had a strange Playtime-to-Queuetime ratio. Getting more dancers would be cool
[...]

This was something I thought too, since last year there were 18-20 dancers or so (I was competing, but didn't apply this year). Made me think did they just want less dancers this year since there was the charity dance auction too, or was it just that there weren't as many people applying. /shrug

KeksTheFurry

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #49 on: 02.09.2017, 07:05:50 »

[...] since there was the charity dance auction too, or was it just that there weren't as many people applying. /shrug


Talking about the dance auction... it was totally cringe to see those low offers and also that one suiter almost got no offer at all.
I regret that I missed the fursuit group photo for that. Also I guess if I want to dance with a fursuiter, I can just do this for free at any regular dance.

However, I would pay for personal cuddle time :P So maybe that is an idea ^^
Or anything else more personal that has nothing to do with dancing. Imagine going with a fursuiter to a restaurant :D

Alpha_Ki

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #50 on: 02.09.2017, 07:27:02 »

- crowded Dealer's Den. There really was barely any space to move, especially for the tables in the middle to the left, that were placed like a "U" shape. Not sure if there is a way to change that, since that room, as I heard, was the only one with windows and daylight. But from other Conventions I also know of Dealer's Dens that are in the basement, no natural light either, but only 6-8 hours opened, maybe that's an option?

- Artist Alley: There was an email, that people who applied for the Dealer's Den and didn't get in would be reserved a space in the Artist Alley, was that a thing? I was lucky that I was up early enough both days to get a spot, but I really liked the idea. Maybe a sign-up in the evening? Not sure how big the demand for tables even was.
I know that MFF has 3 days of Artist Alley and it is a lottery to get a spot, and if you didn't get a spot on either of the first two days, you are guaranteed one on the last day, I really like this idea. Also they have a screen showing all the artist names that currently sit in the Artist Alley, that was pretty helpful :)

also:
- make Artist Alley 3 days long, more time for more folks to sit there :)


Hello Shex,
We do have an expanding solution, we can make when the second hotel tower is ready. Then we have enough attendees to rent the second ECC. Or we double the EF price starting next year. Or I ask if we get the basement under the ECC one. The entrance would be through the Dealers' Den - down the staircase through that metal savety door in the corner EZ Wolf had his table. There is the hotel storage and since we use almost all their tables we might have an empty room there. But that would be just 2,5 meters high and I am not sure how large that area truly is.
BELIVE ME when I say we are rolling options around year after year after year. I don't have a Marry Poppins' Bag with space as much as I want. Of course I could reduce the amount of tables at the Dealers' Den to get it less crowded but that also means less artists and that also means a longer waiting list. If you don't like it crowded - go there on Friday or Saturday - these days are usually very good if you want to have a good look on everything.

As for the Artist Alley - if the video makers, photo shooters and the fursuit game show preliminaries doesn't need the hallway for cool pictures, set ups etc. then we can have the area for three days. But artists aren't the only attendees at EF and the rest is not there for only buying nice things. But we all go there to have fun. And for quite a lot of people it is fun to wear a fursuit getting great pictures done. I saw the Rotunde used on Thursday for private photo and dance video shoots.

Artist Alley set up ... hell ... you were lucky that Gekko was the one being there for you ... I would have eaten anyone alive. I was so annoyed that the hotel doesn't read my instructions when it comes to setup. They do that when ever they have time for that. In my setup plan there is mentioned that setting up the tables should happen shortly before 11 am so that we can control and hold back some tables for the people on the the waiting list. That was and is the plan.
We are only humans, we need sleep and a proper breakfast, that is why we don't sit there from six in the morning biting away people till 11 to make sure it works out.
And the seating plan / screen for the Alley - we had an idea to connect the tables with the Smartphone app so artists can ping themselves in. BUT it didn't work out as we wanted it to work so we "just" had a large seating plan banner with the option writing your name onto it - as said on the hand out... no one used it. Having a lottery and "booked" tables would also mean that there is no chance for an artists popping up a point of sales if he or she registered a week before the con. Or if he or she looses in the lottery... the open system gives a fair chance. And I have seen enough empty tables. Plus I have two people selling at the Dealers' Den this year telling me that sales in the Alley either last year or after the Den closes were better than at the Den itself. Just for the statistics.

We are a fan based convention on a very professional level, we are no fair. Please keep that always in mind.
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Suicune

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #51 on: 02.09.2017, 07:53:18 »

- THE MAIN STAGE VOLUME
  > I HAD A TINITUS SEVERAL TIMES JUST FROM ATTENDING NORMAL EVENTS, NOT DANCES. YOU DON'T EXPECT TO BRING EAR PROTECTION THERE. AUDIO WAS CLIPPING SO HARD.
  > I WRITE THIS IN CAPS SO THAT YOU GET AN IDEA HOW IT FELT TO SIT THERE WHILE NO ONE IT PUTTING THE VOLUME LEVER DOWN
  > No but seriously, so many complains about it and nobody was able to fix it. It is a bit hard to understand how this was not possible to change.

-  It is forbidden to cover your real name on your badge with removeable duct-tape (that you can remove at any time when someone needs to "control" your badge!).
   Please, how does my real name help someone at an entrance to check if my badge is valid? Do they need to learn all the names of the attendees? There was a guy who looked at my name for
   like half a minute after I had to remove my tape from it. Seriously, why? If someone wants to report me,
   he can just take my reg number or my nickname! Long story short: I stopped wearing my con badge and replaced it with a self-printed multipass. Suddenly, this was a solution
   that finally got me through all the checkpoints. Proof, that the multipass works everywhere! :D
   But seriously: PLEASE find a solution so that people don't have to run around at cons, showing everyone their real name, if they don't want to.
   Keeping the badge hidden as a result is a bit sad because people can't see your nickname then.

Then don't sit in the front rows? oO
Only event that killed my ears a litte was when I sat right in front on the speaker during the PPS and a female voice was screaming or shouting. No propblem with the other events I attended and where I sat in the first 3 rows.

And good question. What's the point of having my name on it except of being identifyable on the spot? You got number and checksum. oO
Not a fan of showing my name either. ^^;

KeksTheFurry

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #52 on: 02.09.2017, 09:33:06 »

Then don't sit in the front rows? oO

I was in the pretty much in the middle of the main stage, if not more in the back. It matters more if you sit on the side where the speakers are pointing at you.
But honestly, the existence of a volume issue is nothing we need to discuss. Chats are full of it, staff knew it was there, it just didn't got fixed live for whatever reason.
During PPS for example, it was hard to read anything else in the EF SFW chat than people complaining about the audio volume destroying their ears.
Making any row (which is "too close" to the speakers in your opinion) deaf isn't an option either, not at an event where you don't espect to bring ear protection, e.g. the PPS.

BTW: Clipping audio is also nothing that has to do with volume, it means that an audio feed has a signal which is too high to process by everything that comes after that.

Futeko

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #53 on: 02.09.2017, 16:16:02 »

-  It is forbidden to cover your real name on your badge with removeable duct-tape (that you can remove at any time when someone needs to "control" your badge!).
   Please, how does my real name help someone at an entrance to check if my badge is valid? Do they need to learn all the names of the attendees? There was a guy who looked at my name for
   like half a minute after I had to remove my tape from it. Seriously, why? If someone wants to report me,
   he can just take my reg number or my nickname! Long story short: I stopped wearing my con badge and replaced it with a self-printed multipass. Suddenly, this was a solution
   that finally got me through all the checkpoints. Proof, that the multipass works everywhere! :D
   But seriously: PLEASE find a solution so that people don't have to run around at cons, showing everyone their real name, if they don't want to.
   Keeping the badge hidden as a result is a bit sad because people can't see your nickname then.

If you have any doubts with regards to a rule (whether "badge must always be fully visible" one or any other), please don't hesitate to go to SecOps and discuss your concerns. Keeping that frustration bottled up can't do anything good for your fun on-site, when security could actually clarify your concerns and give meaning to a rule you might find unfair.
People at SecOps are not there to debate rules and change them for you, but they'll certainly be more than happy to explain the meaning of them to you and try to find a solution that would put your concerns at rest.

I would however advise against replacing your badge with any custom solution. If security had caught you with a self-made badge and without your real convention badge, you could have gotten into a lot of trouble - which would have been quite sad seeing the situation could have been discussed and clarified beforehand.
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KeksTheFurry

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #54 on: 02.09.2017, 16:38:41 »

I would however advise against replacing your badge with any custom solution. If security had caught you with a self-made badge and without your real convention badge, you could have gotten into a lot of trouble
I wasn't aware this could've been missunderstood if someone doesn't know what multipass means. It's a Meme.
I've put my con badge in my jeans to only show it when consec wanted me to and had a multipass as a joke around my neck (which means one that looks like https://cdn.instructables.com/FTJ/CYOV/IEB8CSW1/FTJCYOVIEB8CSW1.MEDIUM.jpg ), so obviously nowhere near a con badge.
Also, I still had my Video Team badge around my neck. This is probably the reason why no one asked for my badge anymore.

BTT: If you know the reason why this "show your real name" rule exists, would you please be so kind to explain it here?
I have a friend who did the same in Fursuit and the feedback he received for that wasn't quite calm and relaxed like mine.
So we both would like to know the reason why this can't be allowed, and maybe also more people here.
« Last Edit: 03.09.2017, 21:26:42 by Keks »
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Sheena-Tiger

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #55 on: 02.09.2017, 21:30:54 »

I would however advise against replacing your badge with any custom solution. If security had caught you with a self-made badge and without your real convention badge, you could have gotten into a lot of trouble
I wasn't aware this could've been missunderstood if someone doesn't know what multipass means. It's a Meme.
I've put my con badge in my jeans to only show it when consec wanted me to and had a multipass as a joke around my neck (which means one that looks like https://cdn.instructables.com/FTJ/CYOV/IEB8CSW1/FTJCYOVIEB8CSW1.MEDIUM.jpg ), so obviously nowhere near a con badge.
Also, I still had my Video Team badge around my neck. This is probably the reason why no one asked for my badge anymore.

BTT: If you know the reason why this "show your real name" rule exists (while not wearing your badge visible seems to be ok), would you please be so kind to explain it here?
I have a friend who did the same in Fursuit and the feedback he received for that wasn't quite calm and relaxed like mine.
So we both would like to know the reason why this can't be allowed, and maybe also more people here.

I only have the short answer: You signed the Rules of Conduct which include the following:
Quote from: Eurofurence
Registration and Badges

    You must be at least 18 years old on the first day of the convention.
    Eurofurence functions are open only to registered attendees.
    Attendees are identified by their personal membership badge.
    A badge is valid only for the person to whom it was issued and may not be shared.
    Badges must be presented and/or surrendered to any Staff member requesting it.
    Changing or obscuring information on your badge is not allowed.

As well known, any rule in there is there for a reason.
Details of the reasons likely can be given by more experienced people that might have encountered the reasons in person.
Lucky (or unlucky, depending on personal opinion) I am far to new for that.

KeksTheFurry

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #56 on: 03.09.2017, 17:13:10 »

I only have the short answer: You signed the Rules of Conduct which include the following:
Quote from: Eurofurence
Registration and Badges
    You must be at least 18 years old on the first day of the convention.
    Eurofurence functions are open only to registered attendees.
    Attendees are identified by their personal membership badge.
    A badge is valid only for the person to whom it was issued and may not be shared.
    Badges must be presented and/or surrendered to any Staff member requesting it.
    Changing or obscuring information on your badge is not allowed.
As well known, any rule in there is there for a reason.
Details of the reasons likely can be given by more experienced people that might have encountered the reasons in person.
Lucky (or unlucky, depending on personal opinion) I am far to new for that.

̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶l̶̶e̶̶a̶̶s̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶e̶̶r̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶n̶̶o̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶u̶̶l̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶o̶̶r̶̶c̶̶i̶̶n̶̶g̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶o̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶e̶̶a̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶a̶̶d̶̶g̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶v̶̶i̶̶s̶̶i̶̶b̶̶l̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶l̶̶l̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶i̶̶m̶̶e̶̶.̶̶ ̶  (Edit: See next post)

Still, it is a mystery why I can't cover parts of my badge temporary
if I'm able to remove the cover at request, if not wearing your badge visible seems to be ok.
It is reasonable that identification on request is necessary in some cases,
but this is still given with any temporary cover that can be removed in seconds.

I hope there will be a solution next EF for that, also if it's just that they allow temporary covers (e.g. card holders with backplate + Name printed on just one badge side).
I don't even know any other event where full names are printed on badges to be honest.
« Last Edit: 03.09.2017, 21:21:23 by Keks »
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Futeko

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #57 on: 03.09.2017, 18:46:28 »

Quote
At least there is no rule forcing you to wear your badge visible at all time.
Just to clarify this bit so that the wrong information is not spread: actually, you always have to wear your badge, especially in the convention-specific areas.
This is clearly mentioned in the Conbook as the first item of "Long Story Short" following the RoC (page 10).

You can imagine how much of a nightmare it would be for everyone if all the attendees kept their badge in their pocket, as security would have to stop everyone 24/7 to check that they are actually allowed to be on the premises. Having your badge openly visible makes it possible to check this in an instant with a quick glance - which is obviously more convenient for both attendees and security :)
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Honey

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #58 on: 04.09.2017, 00:44:15 »

I had a nice con experience overall and I had a very good experience in the dealers den even though it was very hot some of the time. Thank you everyone for your hard work!

Most of my "points" has already been answered so I won't get into that. The only thing I feel the need to mention is the moving of the smokers area from the main enterance to the enterance right at wing 3. I was in wing 3 and because of the heat the doors was always open. The smell of smoke blew right in and was even sometimes noticeable on the lower floors on wing 3. Passing through the area to get to the elevator and the seating area right I front where the big sand wall was, was greatly affected by the smoke.

Now I understand we all have to be here, smokers and non smokers alike but I noticed that the doors near wing 1 was never open! Why not move the smokers in that direction instead? Or further down the ramp so at least it's not right outside the doors where the smoke flows in and fills the room :)
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Dhary Montecore

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Re: EF23 Feedback (2017)
« Reply #59 on: 04.09.2017, 11:19:46 »

The only thing I feel the need to mention is the moving of the smokers area from the main enterance to the enterance right at wing 3. I was in wing 3 and because of the heat the doors was always open. The smell of smoke blew right in and was even sometimes noticeable on the lower floors on wing 3. Passing through the area to get to the elevator and the seating area right I front where the big sand wall was, was greatly affected by the smoke.

Now I understand we all have to be here, smokers and non smokers alike but I noticed that the doors near wing 1 was never open! Why not move the smokers in that direction instead? Or further down the ramp so at least it's not right outside the doors where the smoke flows in and fills the room :)

Hi!

I'm glad you enjoyed the convention! Regarding the move of the smokers area: Originally this was a rather spontaneous decision I had to make. I had hoped that the doors to the wing 3 side entrance would not be opened wide so often. My mistake. I decided against the wing 1 side doors because of the often rushed car traffic up the ramp. For next year we will prepare a more visible smokers area in a better location - maybe wing 1 side-entrance.
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