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[Lightfox]

Hey! So in this topic, i would like to put into light one problem that i felt was too present in some areas of the hotel: cigarette smoke!

I know many furs are smokers (and it's their right), but this year I had a bigger problem with it: beyond the fact that the hotel's main entrance is totally unreachable in suit if you don't want to end up with a stinking smell in your fur (like every year, but i can live with it, people have to smoke *somewhere*), there were other areas where the problem existed:

• In front of the secondary dancefloor (where 80's dance and dead dog party took place), the door were permanently opened, and smoke kept pouring inside the building. This was was really annoying, since:
  • The fursuit lounge was nearby. (and even closer for the dead dog party)
  • The area was next the rooms with dances: one had to go through there to/from the dancefloor, and it's not really pleasant to smell cigarette smoke as soon as you try to take a breather.
• The balcony next to the fursuit lounge also sometimes had smokers, and this is the most unacceptable place in the con to smoke imho.

Just as out of courtesy for fursuiters who do care about the smell on their fursuit, my suggestions would be:

• Forbidding smoking anywhere near the fursuit lounge, especially its balcony.
• At the very least closing the doors of the building to prevent smoke from entering
• Asking people who smoke to gather only in specific areas, e.g. the front of the hotel's entrance. (I don't have high hopes about this one)

[James The Dog]

Had the issue myself waiting for the pawpet show with people smoking in and next to the queue- you really can't move away from it there, and if I left the queue, then I've lost my space. Also the group photo, which I did in fursuit- while waiting for the photo I had to take my head off, which I don't really like doing in public, because people smoking around me which was filling up the inside of my fursuit head- which isn't pleasant.

[Wotan]

You explain it with all the corect words! That will be nice for next year, I will apreciate it too as a fursuiter!

[meo]

A quick question from one nonsmoking Fur to the others: How about these electric Smokes? I can handle these much better because the smell is way more less heavy than the cigarette one and vanishes more quickly (anyway i can understand that people still have a problem with a smoker right next to them).

Lets face it, it isn't a problem with the Hotel or Conops in my onion, but again people shutting down their brains. To my knowledge the whole Hotel was a smoke free Zone, so the smoking is only allowed outside the building. Here starts the problem: for me personally the Hotelzone should include the entrance too so Fursuiters and nonsmokers can wave at cabs and socialize in "fresh" air. On the other hand, banning peoples that i like from the entrance because they smoke is something i wouldn't like. And I think this is exactly the point where good meanings clashes each others!
If I where a smoker, i didn't would go down the stairs as well, because it feels getting cut of from all the fun, but need to smoke too on one side on the other one the "I don't want to annoy everyone" feeling.

My suggestion would be following: as there are at least three entrances to the hotel, open at least one for the smokers so they can smoke there and aren't that cut of from the fun, but also make it clear (and force it when one again sits on his ears) that smoking is only allowed there PLUS that these Door will lead you right into this Zone, so Suiters could avoid it.

As for the smaller Dance Stage: i think it where because of the Foggenerator thingy and i simply hope that this will change when we get other or bigger Sig rooms.

[Schorse]

Well, the hotel HAS a smoker lounge at the -1 floor. When you go down the wide stairs in the lobby and then turn left. But it was closed due to renovation. So I'm sure next year it will be open again.

[Druon]

It was bad timing that the smoker's lounge was closed for repairs. I am sure the situation will improve once we have that location in place.
 
I usually don't mind smokers outdoors, because I can avoid them. This isn't true for situations like queuing. It should be emphasized that there is absolutely no smoking while you are standing in a queue, no matter if indoors or outdoors. Because the people next to you can't just move out of the way without giving up their spot. Also it should be avoided to let any queue go past a space that pretty much is the smoking area of the con.

I never had any issues with e-cigarettes. There is only a faint smell and that is usually a pleasant one to me - like a friend of mine using woodruff liquid in his vaporizer. Personally, I'd like to see more smokers switch to those - at the very least for the time they attend public events. Makes it much more enjoyable to hang around my smoking friends.    

[Token]

Since we were not the only guests at the hotel, rules about smoking or non-smoking areas cannot be easily changed. But I do agree, that people should be a little bit more respectful and take it a few steps further away from the entrance area. Maybe a smoker reading this might be so kind next year. :-)

Best wishes,
Token

[Ginge]

As a smoker i would like to put my own opinion here, every time i went outside for a smoke in the designated smoking area it was always filled with suiters and non smokers, so i had to stand at either side of the entrance so i didn't accidentally burn any suiter and that i was out the way of them so i couldn't be blamed for making there suits smell even if people was still smoking right next to them, us smokers have really little choice on where we can smoke and I do appreciate people who don't smoke you don't want us around you, but you can easily sit inside with that beer, you can easily move somewhere with more room for you to relax in, us smokers do not have this privilege we are herded into small areas with some not having a roof or somewhere to sit and relax and for once it was nice to have a big area to smoke in which was undercover, but even when we smoke were we should we still get moaned at for this and its not just at a con its everywhere.

smokers are given a small area to smoke in, we have to adapt and move around, so if we have to adapt to what we are given surely you can too by using another gathering area? yes ok its the main entrance and its the best place to meet up with friends but its still the designated smoking area, non smokers have a massive hotel to gather in and relax and move about we are given two places in which we can use yet you want us to go elsewhere.

As for next year i do hope the smoking lounge is open so we can go in there, but as for the main entrance by the stairs this will always be a smoking area so if your in suit and you don't want to smell of smoke please don't hang around this area especially as the road is well used and suiters are really dangerous and same for the other one by the doors near where the dead dog party is, but to improve on what has happened this year we can ask for the doors down the bottom to be kept closed and not wedged open like they were to stop the smoke drifting in, as for the fursuit lounge the balcony is another smoking area but i don't know if there was any rules saying if it can be used as such, this area is ideal for suiters who smoke so they don't have to get dressed to go outside and then come back in, maby next year if the lounge is in the same place we could as the fursuit team to only keep one door open but with a fan pointing outwards to stop the blow back from the smoke?

Anyway this is my personal rant about it.

[timoran]

Since we were not the only guests at the hotel, rules about smoking or non-smoking areas cannot be easily changed. But I do agree, that people should be a little bit more respectful and take it a few steps further away from the entrance area. Maybe a smoker reading this might be so kind next year. :-)

Best wishes,
Token

Hopefully next year, we will have the hotel 100%, and we will be the only guests at the hotel?
I can hope!

Anyway, I really find it annoying when people use e-cigs in non-smoking areas. The e-cig still produces smoke that still causes problem for asthmatics like me and should not be used anywhere that smoking generally isn't allowed. Especially the rude people who blow smoke in other people's face.

[Cookie]

Technically, e-cig produce steam.
The same thing you  inhale when leaning over a cup of tea, or inside your shower.
It isn't smoke *per se*.

I'm a 120% non smoker and i rather indeed have all people smoke e-cigs than regular cigarettes..

More than once i thought "eh it smells good in here" and looked for a source of it... to find a e-smoker not too far...

[Fafnir Kristensen]

Technically, e-cig produce steam.

theoretically yes
practically some e-cig I have seen produce more than just steam, seeing the massive smoke produced, more thick than it should be and not disappearing as quickly as it should, maybe because of some weird mix people put into it :/

[Lightfox]

[...] but even when we smoke were we should we still get moaned at for this and its not just at a con its everywhere.

You say this like it's unfair. Do you really need to be reminded why it's not? Every smoker has heard it a millions times already.

[...]smokers are given a small area to smoke in, we have to adapt and move around, so if we have to adapt to what we are given surely you can too by using another gathering area? yes ok its the main entrance and its the best place to meet up with friends but its still the designated smoking area, non smokers have a massive hotel to gather in and relax and move about we are given two places in which we can use yet you want us to go elsewhere.

As far as I'm concerned, even though it annoys me (both in and out of suit really), sacrificing the main entrance to smoker is something i'm completely okay with. They have to smoke *somewhere*.

[...] for the other one by the doors near where the dead dog party is, but to improve on what has happened this year we can ask for the doors down the bottom to be kept closed and not wedged open like they were to stop the smoke drifting in [...]

I don't really ask for more than this, really. But i'm not sure that would be enough to prevent the smoke from getting in, unless the doors are permanently sealed (since just entering and leaving a smoked area will always let some smoke in), which probably won't happen.

[...]as for the fursuit lounge the balcony is another smoking area but i don't know if there was any rules saying if it can be used as such, this area is ideal for suiters who smoke so they don't have to get dressed to go outside and then come back in, maby next year if the lounge is in the same place we could as the fursuit team to only keep one door open but with a fan pointing outwards to stop the blow back from the smoke?

I'll admit it was only a problem if you stepped outside, i was never bothered by smoke directly inside the fursuit lounge. But I don't like to have the risk of having smoke that can potentially enter the lounge at any time because some people don't care.

[RedFoxy]

I had 2 cigarette hole in my fursuit :|

[Akeela]

About e-cigarettes:
The liquid that is vaporized in an e-cig is a mixture of propyleneglycol, glycerine and water. Additionally, there are flavorings and nicotine. The base liquid is very much comparable to the fluid used in the smoke machines which are used on the stage, and at the dances. These fluids are often flavoured as well, so the only difference in the end is the nicotine content. The same base ingredients (Propyleneglycol, Glycerine, Water) are also used in medical inhalers to treat lung diseases like asthma and bronchitis. So, in general it can be said that if you don't react to disco fog, you shouldn't react to e-cig smoke as well. There is still a very slight chance that you'd react to the specific flavoring used, but you run the same risk when you eat ice cream - all flavours used in e-cig liquid are food grade, and are also used by the food industry. I'd also like to point out that any residue left behind by the fog on surfaces (such as a piece of synthetic fur, for example) are water-soluble and will wash out easily with cold water.

I summarize: E-cigs are basically miniaturized disco fog machines that also may contain nicotine. They use materials that have been proven to be harmless for human consumption. They do NOT produce any kind of smoke whatsoever, they produce vapor and fog.

-Aki

[Dhary Montecore]

About e-cigarettes:
The liquid that is vaporized in an e-cig is a mixture of propyleneglycol, glycerine and water. Additionally, there are flavorings and nicotine. The base liquid is very much comparable to the fluid used in the smoke machines which are used on the stage, and at the dances. These fluids are often flavoured as well, so the only difference in the end is the nicotine content. The same base ingredients (Propyleneglycol, Glycerine, Water) are also used in medical inhalers to treat lung diseases like asthma and bronchitis. So, in general it can be said that if you don't react to disco fog, you shouldn't react to e-cig smoke as well. There is still a very slight chance that you'd react to the specific flavoring used, but you run the same risk when you eat ice cream - all flavours used in e-cig liquid are food grade, and are also used by the food industry. I'd also like to point out that any residue left behind by the fog on surfaces (such as a piece of synthetic fur, for example) are water-soluble and will wash out easily with cold water.

I summarize: E-cigs are basically miniaturized disco fog machines that also may contain nicotine. They use materials that have been proven to be harmless for human consumption. They do NOT produce any kind of smoke whatsoever, they produce vapor and fog.

-Aki

Addition: If the owner isn't stupid enough to buy his liquids from some shady internet shop or (yes, happens a lot lately) mixes the stuff himself, putting godknowswhat in it. Yes, I hate smokers and I very much dislike e-cigs as well, but in direct comparison the e-cigs are obviously the better choice. Still personally I'd feel like a invalid running around with an inhaler. :3