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Author Topic: Women at Furry Conventions  (Read 29239 times)

Sithy

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #30 on: 24.01.2014, 11:47:37 »

The problem does not lie in saying no. I am perfectly capable of saying no without causing a fuss. I'm also perfectly capable of using my elbow to ram someone's ribs if no is not enough :-)

The problem lies in people going on when you say no. And I know a lot of people (girls and guys) who are afraid to go to Security because they're afraid they will be belittled and told "you should have been more clear" or to hear "well this community is just touchy-feely". That hasn't happened at EF as far as I know just to be clear, but I've encountered that attitude countless times at anime cons or sci-fi cons.

It's awesome this community runs on hugs, that's great. Doesn't mean it's OK to grab someone's breasts or butt. It's about having respect.
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Dragony

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #31 on: 24.01.2014, 12:03:09 »

I do really know, that there are situations (e.g. in you own life or whatever), where you are not able to say more as a single "No". And it have to be enough. So it's never a fault of the person who was harassed, it's the person who is harassing because the person didn't listen.

For myself, I was a victim a few years ago. So I think, I'm really able to rate a situation an can be very empathic or sensitive. So I can say with a clear conscience: If you have any problems with harassments, get in touch with me and we find a solution.
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Gyroplast

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #32 on: 24.01.2014, 12:18:24 »

The perfect opportunity to butt (har har) in for me!

I can't say it too often: We had and will always have a fair share of creeps on EF. This certainly does not only affect women, but also fursuiters, who are possibly perceived as "even more helpless", and therefore the perfect victim for (sexual) harassment.

Unfortunately, security on it's own can do next to nothing to prevent such issues, and only very little when such issues are reported. Nevertheless, please do always report harassment, if it's not a simple misunderstanding, or solved with a clear "bugger off, I do not want you near me". We always take such complaints seriously, and have a clear talk to the ones involved to make absolutely clear what is acceptable, social behaviour, and what is not. It's not hard to keep at least two arm's lengths distance to somebody, and "repeat offenders", whose names are dropped more often, get special attention from us.

Of course, we cannot outright ban anybody on a thin basis of "somebody said he was harassed". Some furries would totally use this as a weapon against people they don't like, and EF security will not be their drama executive force, period. Gotta walk a thin line here, so please don't be offended if our actions aren't immediately obvious to you. I assure you it's neither neglect, nor ignorance.

To sum it up: If you feel harassed, talk to security. This is escalated to Dhary or me, as we collect such reports during the convention, to find patterns. We will want to talk to you and the alleged offender, not necessarily together, to find a mutual agreement how both parties can continue to enjoy EF without stepping on each other's toes. Please do make sure, however, that you clearly told the offender to leave you alone, otherwise they WILL pull the "I didn't know! I'm soooo sorry!" card when confronted later, and we're screwed. Get a seccie to tell him once in clear words, if you don't feel comfortable yourself, but do it!

If you take anything with you from this posting, let it be this: Talk. To. Security. And get the name/registration id of the offender, if at all possible. Security will help with that, too. Don't wait three days, do it right. Now.

That being said, the *reports* we get are very, very limited, so we can only guess that EF is rather safe after all in this regard. But we do assume that our "Dunkelziffer" is rather high; Many victims don't tell us they felt uncomfortable, and sweep things under the rug. Don't be a victim. We want creeps not to be creepy as much as you do.

Always remember: You may handle a sexual assault well, but will your friends, too, if they;re next?

Thanks,
  Gyro
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Ziggy_wolf

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #33 on: 26.01.2014, 16:08:10 »

Well as for bringing more women and evening out the gender differances about a third of the people we`re bringing are female. I for one feel comfertable and safe bringing my little sister along. However as a guy I see a lot more guys hitting on me. Don`t get me wrong it`s nice that they like me, but when you pop out of nowhere and grab my ass don`t be offended if I smack your paw. If there`s a ring on that finger don`t tap it. I`ve seen my share of flirting towards women, especially if the have a cute outfit, but seldom any grabbing, like gay males tend to do. But all in all people tend to be respectfull, when I politely decline, and from what I`ve seen people in general are polite.
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Tarkan the Wolf

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #34 on: 01.05.2014, 00:03:32 »

Well....i would love to see more woman at EF, including ones who feel that they think not many other woman are there and most are guys because that would put them off from going...just get yourselves to the fur cons ladies and enjoy yourself! :3



« Last Edit: 03.05.2014, 02:53:50 by Tarkan the Wolf »
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Cheetah

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #35 on: 29.05.2014, 13:58:36 »

Cosplayer Nicole Jacobs On Harassment At Comic Cons… And What We Can All Do About It:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/05/27/cosplayer-nicole-jacobs-on-harassment-at-comic-cons-and-what-we-can-all-do-about-it/
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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #36 on: 29.05.2014, 15:37:46 »

The "only a dissapointingly small number of conventions have policies against harassment in place" statement is fortunately not true for almost all furry events, at least in Europe.

The security team and the Rules of Conduct for Eurofurence follow the European standard set by the MI:3 security network and show zero tolerance to any kind of harassment. Regardles of male or female, even verbal abuse is investigated and sanctioned harshly.

Our conventions and events are safe places for every attendee and we take pride in a sensible and emphatic security team.

Just remember the most important rule: if you have any question, concern or information for us, be it prior to or during the convention, do NOT hesitate to contact your security team. We gladly help you, even if you just want to know the time. :)



security@eurofurence.org
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ysegrim

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #37 on: 29.05.2014, 19:43:23 »

I believe I have trouble understanding the central paragraph of this text ...
Quote
While the man’s badge was removed and he was escorted from the building, never once was I given the option to press charges against him. [...] If security is unresponsive and entirely fails to do their job, who are they really securing?

So, unless the BOD/Security actively refused to give her his name, or unless there was no way to get this name just from the removed badge as soon as the person had left, what exactly is it a non-unresponsive ,non-entirely-failing-to-do-their-job security should have done? What would EF's security do differently? (no details of course. I'm just trying to get what, other than "immediately banning and removing from the premises", "if he poses a threat, hand him to authorities", and "on request, support investigations by submitting ID details from badge/reg db" would be expected?)
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o'wolf

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #38 on: 30.05.2014, 00:02:05 »

I believe I have trouble understanding the central paragraph of this text ...
Quote
While the man’s badge was removed and he was escorted from the building, never once was I given the option to press charges against him. [...] If security is unresponsive and entirely fails to do their job, who are they really securing?

So, unless the BOD/Security actively refused to give her his name, or unless there was no way to get this name just from the removed badge as soon as the person had left, what exactly is it a non-unresponsive ,non-entirely-failing-to-do-their-job security should have done?

I'm not sure if I understand your question correctly.

Convention Security is neither the police (who wouldn't have given the victim the name of the offender either, at least in Germany) nor a judge. However, she could have pressed criminal charges against John Doe and name convention security as witness or, in a civil case, have a lawyer subpoena the name from the convention. Even if the victim happens to know the name of the offender, I strongly recommend to go the juridical way, as publicly shaming someone without having a proof that stands up in court can backfire very badly in many countries.

What I'd recommend to the convention board (and yes, sexual assault is clearly something the board needs to be made aware of) is to support the victim, foremost by taking the complaint seriously, listening, and showing empathy. Secondly by helping her to involve the authorities.
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Cheetah

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #39 on: 02.06.2014, 21:03:36 »

IARP volunteers handed out surveys to attendees at this year’s Furry Fiesta, held February 21 to 23 in Dallas, USA. 246 surveys were returned, out of 1884 total attendees. You can find the full results here - and if you don't feel like digging through the numbers, [adjective][species] offers an intersting summary and commentary..
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BlackWolf

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #40 on: 11.07.2014, 20:55:39 »

I can't really agree with this article either. There will always be some creeps or weirdos at larger cons so it's not only supposed to happen at the EF or something. You just have to be careful when being out as a woman among a huge massive male dominated crowd. That's all. I certainly know how to protect and take care of myself and I didn't really had any bad experiences with male furs yet. I don't expect it to happen any time soon either. Of course it would be nice to run into some more other females during the convention but I'm also looking forward to celebrate and hang out with my male pals from all over :D
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Jorinda

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #41 on: 28.08.2014, 11:44:30 »

Sorry for digging up this topic, I was just wondering about that EF Daily article.

It stated that all of the 12 women who were asked had experienced some kind of harrassment. What was counted as harrassment?

I know that some girls, especially the shy ones, are already bothered by lame flirting attempts. It makes them feel uncomfortable, so it could be counted as harrassment - although the same situation would not be a problem for others. And the flirting guy probably didn't mean to make annoy them.

Or, as another example - accidental touching. The lobby was quite crowded, so it might happen that someone walking by may touch you. Especially at night, when parts of the lobby were dimly lit and full of people, sometimes a fursuiter would nudge me. But I wouldn't claim they were actively trying to touch my butt, it's just the height their paws are at when they walk, and they probably didn't see me.
On the other hand, someone who feels insecure and fears to be touched may think they were intentionally touching everyone while walking by.
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Ambidexter

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #42 on: 28.08.2014, 17:02:51 »

What was counted as harrassment?
I was going to ask the same thing, because — pic related — http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/470/064/c12.jpg =)
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SiranaJHelena

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #43 on: 28.08.2014, 20:06:23 »

Personally I don't have experience with that yet but I heard it from others that some stuff happened to them or friends which is beyond a little bit flirting. (Also from guys, too btw..)
I don't know if my lack of experience might be because of the majority of my con visits I wasn't adult or if I'm just lucky or not "their type" but I wouldn't nullify the problem because it doesn't affect me.

On a con many people feel like in a very safe bubble, far away from everyday problems, everyday concerns, politics and so on and as far as I can tell this isn't completely wrong. I really felt safe at EF, even in this quarter of Berlin, as long as I wasn't alone there. However, sometimes we should remember that all attendees are more or less normal persons with a personality shaped by modern society. And if someone shows bad behaviour in the 361 other days of the year, they probably won't entirely stop because they are on the con. They might calm down, they might behave a little better because of less pressure on them but they won't swap around.
Additionally such an atmosphere can braven some people who are usually pretty shy and don't have much contact to other people in their everyday life. They flirt more, they try to contact someone and sometimes are a little bit inexperienced in that so their manners might result in creepier actions than planned.

For the people who do behave in an - in other people's eyes - impolite or abusing way it's sometimes unapparent. I couldn't even say for myself that I've never harmed anyone or made anyone feel uncomfortable with some of my actions. I'm not a creep but also far away from being a handy empathic everybody's darling, especially in the past at a younger age where this wasn't a topic at all.

Therefore I'm glad about articles like these. Even if you get angry about it, it makes you think about your behaviour and more sensitive to that topic. And the next person you might have abused unintentionally has the chance to become a good friend instead. :)
« Last Edit: 28.08.2014, 20:08:21 by SiranaJHelena »
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Sheena-Tiger

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Re: Women at Furry Conventions
« Reply #44 on: 29.08.2014, 10:17:44 »

Quote
Has this actually held you back? How were your actual experiences at furry conventions?
Sometimes I got hit on. But more guys were of the "nerd who doesn't know what to say" type, not creepy. A friendly, harmless kind of weirdo ;). And in case I had to tell someone to leave me alone because i didn't want to talk to them, they always stopped. I never got bothered any further after asking them to stop.

Quote
Any stories to tell?
Funniest story so far: My boyfriend was jealous of me going to a con with so many guys. Then he saw that noone was flirting with me, but someone slapped his butt while dancing (and I was the only girl around, and it was not me slapping him). That sounds kinda creepy, but it was more hilarious.

From those snipped out things... the first sounds quite familiar... I always feel that I have not much to add to any conversation or even start one... so... I stay silent and listen or watch. The watching was quite much what I could do anyway at my first EF (which would be EF20) as I was kinda overwhelmed.

The second thing is... what I would be a bit afraid about as heterosexual on a furry convention with such a high percentage of non-heterosexual males. Guess I am lucky that I am neither a suiter nor that good looking which would cut interest.

I am not even much of a hugging person, especially with strangers, so guess how I felt with only guys hugging me while a friend tried to introduce me to some people, which was kinda creepy. The few females he introduced to me briefly, did not hug... and as I am not the hugging type I not tried myself.

That's very easy to say. I'm not convinced it's that easy to act on, though. I've seen countless times that people speak about non-present other people "They don't get it, do they? They should really learn to XXX", but very rarely that they are contacted directly. I know I'm not - so either I'm a brilliant human being without flaws (yeah, sure :), or it's just part of our social culture to NOT speak to persons and just hope they "would get it" by repeating whatever (subtle) signs are agreed on by the majority, but actually never teached. Everyone expects them to "get it", to "learn it", but for those who genuinely are not aware of this coded language there is little help to learn it. Those who know, of course, will not see the issue, probably also disregard it altogether (I'm used to ad hominem attacks when I bring this topic up). So the actual descriptions of our female furries here what they experienced and considered creepy is quite helpful.

Yeah... IF I would have the courage and think I had a topic to talk (no, the weather is not a worthy topic in my opinion... I am bad with smalltalk) with someone (especially a female) I would have no clue about any signs, mostly even the less subtle. At least in my case, it would really help to tell me to stop (if I could muster the courage and topics to approach someone)
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