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Eurofurence 25 "Fractures in Time" - Estrel Hotel Berlin, August 14-18, 2019Follow eurofurence on Twitter

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 1 
 on: Today at 00:27:45 
Started by Blue Raptor - Last post by Reshi
Personally I think last year was perfectly fine when it came to hotel reservations, comparing to 2017, 2018 and 2019. And I'm talking about 2018 of course, not the 2017 Ladenfurence incident. You just registered and after your registration was accepted, you were able to send the generated email. Of course there was an initial rush with the registration and it wasn't ideal for Estrel since it took place in the evening on a Saturday. But out of all of these, it felt the least stressful and it didn't take that long, comparing to the 4 hours it took me to be able to book the room at EF23 and bit over an hour to be able to send the email this year (which ended up me being waitlisted).

But this is of course just my personal opinion. If we really had to prioritize people who get to reserve rooms, it would be first staff and then maybe the people who are in the dealers den. That would require DD team to choose the people for the den before hotel reservation even starts tho, so I don't know how ideal that is in the end, for the DD team and the artists. But I fail to see why fursuiters would be prioritized just because they are fursuiters, since they are not going to the con so they can get paid for their work like artists and people who sell merch at the den. For reference, I am a fursuiter (with two fullsuits) and would prefer a room at the Estrel but this time I just wasn't lucky enough. I'll still bring my suit most likely, but just won't be suiting as much probably.

I think it would be interesting to try a full on lottery style approach to the reservation but I know it will be an issue to some people. But whatever is decided for next year, there will be atleast someone who is not OK with it regardless. Atleast having the rooms non-transferable makes it a little better since if you can't come, you cancel it and the room just goes to the next person in the waiting list. If they were transferable, the whole waiting list would be kinda pointless.. :b

 2 
 on: 21.01.2019, 23:26:51 
Started by Blue Raptor - Last post by Equinn
A lottery system is definitely fine as well, would be a fairly fair solution without taking into perspective bigger groups wanting to go to the convention together while also staying more or less together.

That doesn't work right now either, in the current system. The lottery would retain the ability to keep small groups (2-3 people) together though, since you'd specify your roomies in your room preference, by name/reg number. It wouldn't just spread people into rooms randomly and pair them up automatically, that would never work,instead it would spread the rooms randomly among those who requested one.

Also, 'first come first serve' system doesn't necessarily mean that it's unfair. It can't be denied that a miniscule amount of lottery is involved because of network situations, though the majority still rests at people preparing properly to follow the steps as swiftly as possible, may the best win.

Actually that minuscule is massive. Mostly thanks to how emails work. But that's a whole different topic. Suffice to say, that a ton of emails in a short time will be pretty much randomized. Also creating a competitive environment in this context is not something I personally support, but again, that's me.

So, just to hope this was a wake-up call for next year, and that the feedback is properly looked through and implemented to a degree where as many people as possible are content with, providing no more loopholes and finally leaving everyone with less frustration then the last years as well as less work for everyone. Automation for as many steps as possible is definitely mandatory to achieve this.

Honestly, ladenfurence should've been a wake-up call already...This year it was actually worse, so yes..this definitely has to lead to some major changes. I do believe those involved don't want to intentionally make anything bad,it's just the lack of experience, and thought, that might've been due to other duties, etc...not that this is an excuse. What I'm getting at is that I still hold out hope that they'll move towards a radically different, and functional solution to avoid this grief.


 3 
 on: 21.01.2019, 23:15:23 
Started by Blue Raptor - Last post by Kulze
A lottery system is definitely fine as well, would be a fairly fair solution without taking into perspective bigger groups wanting to go to the convention together while also staying more or less together.
If we want to talk about priority for places in the main hotel, those would be - in my opinion - for people in the dealers den. It makes sense after all, they have to carry a lot of things and being in the hotel is basically mandatory for most to be able to handle it. Also I'm definitely for a priority of people with disabilities that impair them from moving large distances. Wheelchairs, heavy asthmatics and similar conditions in that case. Both often can't attend or are unable to be in the den without snatching a room at the Estrel directly.

I've talked about that already several times though, and it always lead to a long discussion with nobody being able to give a satisfactory answer as to why they shouldn't be given priority. There are definitely obvious reasons as to why they should, as long as it is able to be proven beforehand, namely with registration. Yes, it absolutely is more work for the reg-team, and that's the only reason as to why it wouldn't be implemented if they're already overwhelmed with handling it - which it clearly seems like that is the case.

Also, 'first come first serve' system doesn't necessarily mean that it's unfair. It can't be denied that a miniscule amount of lottery is involved because of network situations, though the majority still rests at people preparing properly to follow the steps as swiftly as possible, may the best win.

But well... basically EVERYTHING is better then what we have now, it was fairly obvious that not much thought was given into the system since last year, otherwise those problems wouldn't have become so openly visible, problems which were mostly known last year for anyone taking a single glance and should've been solved. Namely lowering the load people cause on the servers first to ensure stability and streamlining the booking to make it as easy for attendees as well as the hotel, both which are major oversights.
So, just to hope this was a wake-up call for next year, and that the feedback is properly looked through and implemented to a degree where as many people as possible are content with, providing no more loopholes and finally leaving everyone with less frustration then the last years as well as less work for everyone. Automation for as many steps as possible is definitely mandatory to achieve this.

 4 
 on: 21.01.2019, 23:04:46 
Started by Blue Raptor - Last post by Equinn
The difference is the timing. If you register as a fursuiter and show your head, that gives you access to the fursuit lounge for the next few days. That means you first prove you are a fursuiter and (shortly) afterwards enjoy fursuiter privileges.
With the hotel reservation that would be the other way around: first enjoy the privileges (hotel room reservation), then, seven months later, prove you are/were entitled to it. There are just so many ways that could go wrong and cause drama...

Yes, but even upon registration the photo(s) are checked one by one, manually, to my knowledge (as it stands , to filter out unsuitable suits, pardon the pun). So you'd have to fool that first level at least, and once you are at the Estrel you would have a very hard time convincing anyone that you are a suiter while you don't have a suit, and you'd be banned. Why would someone do that? They would have themselves banned with about a 95 % chance. That's one hell of a risk to take.

But fine, the priority list is probably too controversial in the community (unfortunately), given all the types of people in it, to implement without a massive can of worms opened. But I still believe the lottery has the biggest merit.

 5 
 on: 21.01.2019, 22:59:59 
Started by Blue Raptor - Last post by Nosnibor
Well, even now when you register as a fursuiter you have to add a photo showing your suit, and those photos are individually, manually checked to my knowledge. So I see no issue/difference there.
The difference is the timing. If you register as a fursuiter and show your head, that gives you access to the fursuit lounge for the next few days. That means you first prove you are a fursuiter and (shortly) afterwards enjoy fursuiter privileges.
With the hotel reservation that would be the other way around: first enjoy the privileges (hotel room reservation), then, seven months later, prove you are/were entitled to it. There are just so many ways that could go wrong and cause drama...

 6 
 on: 21.01.2019, 22:41:55 
Started by Zuthilios - Last post by Zuthilios
Thanks for taking the time to read this~

I'm Dexter, you may have seen me perform at Enter the Arena before. I'm looking for a room at the Estrel with preferably early arrival but not late departure. I drink, I don't smoke and I don't snore. I'm happy with new people so long as you don't cling too much. I like to do my own thing and be alone at times.

All the best~
Dex

 7 
 on: 21.01.2019, 22:35:04 
Started by Blue Raptor - Last post by Equinn
Honestly, I'm not sure how it is important to have an influence on the outcome (probabilities) by the attendees...There are far less spots in the Estrel than attendees, the only fair way of distributing them is a lottery. A first come first served system will depend heavily on conditions beyond the control of those trying to book. Such as state of the local network, state of the remote network, how emails are routed, and so on. I'm baffled why anyone would suggest this is fairer than a lottery that gives everyone the same chance (if no priority system is implemented), by definition. Why would you instead want a system that is competitive and lends itself to abuse, and causes a ton of stress? If you take away that illusion of "control", at least you don't have to worry about being quick. You know you have the same chance as others.

I can, sort of, understand how some would be against giving priority to suiters (and artists), although personally, I find this a bit selfish, since I tend to think, that if someone is in a lot more need of a room close by, then that person should get it, over somebody who simply has to walk/travel 5-10 minutes more (probably once or maybe twice a day)....This is simply "being nice" and looking out for others not just ourselves. For my first two years I was within a 5 minute walking distance of the hotel, didn't really ruin the experience for me, but again, this is probably up to one's personality.

Also, suiters who request a room may have non suiter roomies. The lottery is drawn between those who requested rooms. The roomies may be non suiters, obviously, so you'll end up with a mix, maybe that was a point of confusion.

 8 
 on: 21.01.2019, 22:17:03 
Started by Rendor - Last post by Rendor
Hiyas,

I am looking a room for my friend.


His name is Zero

And he is a first time fursuiter and I want to surprise him with a space in Estrel as he has been looking toward it for a long time.
Thus he was bit disappointed that we did no get a room in Estrel so I want to try and get him a space in Estrel.

He would need a room from August 13 - 19

Fin but speaks English as well
He is 31 year male
Doesn't touch other peoples belongings nor suit
Doesn't party all night
Sleeps semi quietly

Will naturally pay his share of the room.

Send me a PM or contact me on Telegram https://t.me/Rendorace

 9 
 on: 21.01.2019, 21:28:10 
Started by Blue Raptor - Last post by Kulze
One more fairly simple option to keep the 'first come first serves' system with a working infrastructure would also be the following:

Use the Mail-Server if the reg, people reg normally, upon acceptance one gets a mail send from the same address later on a template for the booking is send. This allows users to exempt the mail-adress from their spam folder.
On the day of booking the mail server then sends the template for booking - Pre filled by inputting the proper information beforehand into the reg site - starting from Reg number 1 to every single user. This way being early at reg makes sense, also it keep the flood of E-mails slightly at bay as it has a slight lag attached to receiving the mail. You then simply forward said mail to the hotel, code already included, a perfect template they can work with and the deed is done. People who don't care about the main hotel can ignore it simply or even opt out beforehand - or opt-in if they are interested - causing no more information leaks, unfair advantages and so on to be there.

Just one of a ton of solutions which are easily doable, in the realm of what we know by know of how it's handled and swiftly thought up.

 10 
 on: 21.01.2019, 20:59:05 
Started by Rendor - Last post by Pr. Théodose
Hello everyone !

As most people here, I'm looking to share a room at the Estrel.
I'm a 34 years old French non-suiter fur who speaks English, doesn't drink nor smoke, and only snores when laying on my back.
Please message me on this forum if you're interested. Thank you and good luck to all of you !

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